Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[JLambCWU]

I am getting ready to maiden mine. How much if any flap-elevator mix is anyone using? I gather it needs up elevator with flaps?

+4% for half flaps and +8% for full flaps.

Flys great there and the back edge of the CG envelope.

[Lcacing]

evensen007 I moved the blue box under the rear battery tray and also changed the BEC to the rear power leads.

[Airguardian]

Fair enough but many of us come on here to discuss the title of the thread "Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread" and our experiences with the aircraft. Not theory or physics or non-experiences with the model aircraft.

That's your prerogative.
If we are to respect your position, shouldn't you respect others too?
Maybe we want to have a nice discussion about this plane from that particular perspective, why is your approach any more valid than ours?
Think about it.

Maybe we want to help the community here achieve success with their jets, and use whatever it is we know to help others make better informed decisions.
If you don't respect the rights of others to contest what you have to say, then that is YOUR problem, not ours.

When you and Jan start talking about your experiences with the aircraft I'll stop to listen.

Do as you please but... You won't ever get it, will you?
Having made 1000 successful flights with an airplane doesn't automatically validate anything you have to tell about it.
That's a fallacy of authority, research it if you please. Don't take it from me.

If you don't want my 2 cents now, by all means, please don't take them either after I have completed 20 million flights with the jet.

Jan and I are discussing the same as you do (the MiG-29), and it doesn't take having the jet in our hands to point out things that are pretty self-evident.
And you definitely should not hint at other people what they should or should refrain from doing (as in: don't dare come here to post unless you have actually flown the jet).
It is not nice... The one who spoke about arrogance. So much for that, lol. Where are your manners?

I guess one difference is why we post. A lot of information in this thread is "irrelevant", good of you to notice. Not sure why you add "fallacies of authority", but then I don't really care.

Now you twist my words and still clearly don't understand a thing.
I never said your experienced-based opinion is irrelevant in itself.
I said that WIELDING IT AS AN ARGUMENT (that you have 'supposed experience') to prove that anything you say is therfore ok... here your experience IS irrelevant. There's a difference.
It does not work like that, "the one who checks more boxes automatically wins the debate"... arguments are made, people read them, and it's up to everyone to make their mind about it and make their own decisions.

Your information and experience is very welcome and highly appreciated. It enriches us all, but it doesn't automatically validate whatever you, me or anyone else say.
Be it because you made a bunch of flights. Or becauseyou are a fullscale jet pilot. Or you completed an engineering education. I don't care. Well educated people misfire.
Arguments are good or bad on their own, pretending anything else is obnoxious and arrogant, and it irritates me a lot (probably very evident at this point), particularly when such people acuse others of being arrogant.

So there's that. ;)

[Evan D]

Long post about nothing.


“don't dare come here to post unless you have actually flown the jet”?

[Airguardian]

If you fail to see anything in my long post... that's on you!
But hell, I agree this is gone way off topic.

On more positive notes:

I'm planning on something special for this MiG-29.
Even if it doesn't achieve 1:1 T/W I want to use it as a testbed to see if I can get its hover/high-apha performance to be much better than on my other models by means of using high refresh-rate servos, being run by gyros.

That is, I've already placed an order for several 333Hz capable 20g lil' beasts and sooner or later these should end up powering my stabs and nozzles.
The thing is... I've seen some reviews and each servo easily spikes at 2A current draw when running them at their highest specs... of course, stock setup will not tolerate this so I already ordered an 20A UBEC, and will have to do some serious testing before daring to put such a setup in the air... if the power is too much and causes an Rx brownout, that will be on me.
So, anyone having experience with any similar 'bigger-bird' setups, I am all ears to hear about your reccomendations and tips.

I guess after running some ground tests I'll come to the conclusion that I have to settle at something like 100Hz instead of 333Hz.

Anyway, I'll be glad to take feedback!
I have some previous experience in the field because I've flown flybarless helos, but those are 4 servos, and this jet will be running... 15 (4 to 6 of them running at high rates). 17 if I add FPV pan and tilt. That's crazy.

[Evan D]

Do you have a link?

[Airguardian]

A link to... the servos, the testing?

[Evan D]

Servos

[Scale Master]

I got my elevator replacement servos in yesterday. It's a quick install and fits just fine. They are a little bit taller but no issues with fitment. I'm currently doing a twin turbine conversion with Xicoy X-45 10 lbs engines. Already plumed the fuel lines and tanks. Did some nice weathering on the jet and made a centerline external fuel tank as well. Still waiting on the wheels and brakes, receiver and batteries to come in. I'll keep you guys posted if you're interested on the conversion build.

[crxmanpat]

So much fun flying this Mig with Brent, Justin and Justin (and maybe one more tomorrow).

I keep pushing my CG back. Before when I was one finger width behind the CG, the nose seemed to want to tuck when making a flyby. Now with the CG moved a little further back, the tucking has stopped. I will measure and report my current CG tomorrow.

Brent did a new thing with his today. Inverted high alpha into about a 10 mph headwind. He could peg it in one spot and it would just sit there. Tried it on my next flight and it was easy as pie. Brent is also doing a loop to landing. You can tell he's really comfortable with it and is really pushing it to the max on every flight. Today he was trying to burn through some charged packs. Over a 45-minute period of fly, land, change packs and fly again, he made about 7 flights. Most of these were pushing the airframe further and further to it's limits. Even after 45 minutes of constant use, the electronics held up just fine.

Between the 4 of us, we have about 75 flights so far over the past 3 days. We are going to get a group pic tomorrow. Other pics and video coming soon (wi-fi too slow at the hotel to do uploads).

[HellHathNoFury]

Alpha .. Can you please clarify if this is a misprint?? RcCastle has the Mig29 now with supposed 30gms servos for the Elevators .. I wish this is true

[janmb]

If you fail to see anything in my long post... that's on you!
But hell, I agree this is gone way off topic.

On more positive notes:

I'm planning on something special for this MiG-29.
Even if it doesn't achieve 1:1 T/W I want to use it as a testbed to see if I can get its hover/high-apha performance to be much better than on my other models by means of using high refresh-rate servos, being run by gyros.

That is, I've already placed an order for several 333Hz capable 20g lil' beasts and sooner or later these should end up powering my stabs and nozzles.
The thing is... I've seen some reviews and each servo easily spikes at 2A current draw when running them at their highest specs... of course, stock setup will not tolerate this so I already ordered an 20A UBEC, and will have to do some serious testing before daring to put such a setup in the air... if the power is too much and causes an Rx brownout, that will be on me.
So, anyone having experience with any similar 'bigger-bird' setups, I am all ears to hear about your reccomendations and tips.

I guess after running some ground tests I'll come to the conclusion that I have to settle at something like 100Hz instead of 333Hz.

Anyway, I'll be glad to take feedback!
I have some previous experience in the field because I've flown flybarless helos, but those are 4 servos, and this jet will be running... 15 (4 to 6 of them running at high rates). 17 if I add FPV pan and tilt. That's crazy.

Sounds like a brilliant reason to try out the PB pioneer or the AR Smoothflite 16 imo.... Both solving the power issues just fine, and in the latter case providing a really good, embedded gyro as well

[janmb]

I got my elevator replacement servos in yesterday. It's a quick install and fits just fine. They are a little bit taller but no issues with fitment. I'm currently doing a twin turbine conversion with Xicoy X-45 10 lbs engines. Already plumed the fuel lines and tanks. Did some nice weathering on the jet and made a centerline external fuel tank as well. Still waiting on the wheels and brakes, receiver and batteries to come in. I'll keep you guys posted if you're interested on the conversion build.

Looks great this far! I'm planning on twin X45 down the road too, but will be flying electric for the first season or so.

I would be worried about cg shift though. That forward tank is soooo far forward of the cg... Not having the jet yet, I obviously lack enough hands on study to know for sure, but hoping to cram in more/smaller tanks in the aft battery bay, the areas to the side of it, and directly behind it as far as the spar allows. Looking at cross sections from the 3D model, chaining some smaller tanks should make it possible to get 1.5 liters or so in there - far closer to cg.

[Gringotuerto]

I got my elevator replacement servos in yesterday. It's a quick install and fits just fine. They are a little bit taller but no issues with fitment. I'm currently doing a twin turbine conversion with Xicoy X-45 10 lbs engines. Already plumed the fuel lines and tanks. Did some nice weathering on the jet and made a centerline external fuel tank as well. Still waiting on the wheels and brakes, receiver and batteries to come in. I'll keep you guys posted if you're interested on the conversion build.

Awesome! I like seeing all the crazy stuff people do with models. I think you are right that the new servos are a tiny bit taller, I hadn't noticed that. The bottom up to the mounting holes is the same, but the top is 1 or 2 mm higher. It doesn't matter in the elevator position, but it might not work as a drop-in replacement for other models or other positions, especially a servo that lays down on its side in a bay.

By the way, this seems like a very well-made model in general. Speaking of the servos, notice that the rudder, flaps and ailerons here are in closed bays with lids that screw on. That is more secure, and also makes it easier to change out a servo. Also it looks better, since you don't have a bunch of big black rectangles everywhere. Most foam RTF planes have servos glued into an open bay flush with the surface - cheap and quick but less robust. And that is just one of many details that are improved on this plane, versus past Freewing models (which were already the best RTF foam EDFs in the market).

[Dirty Dee]

Argh. Struggling a bit with battery and rx/wire placement. I have Spektrum 5000 and HRB 6000 batteries. With both of these setup, I need to use the rear and middle battery location to CG. The issue with this is that the wiring mess is hard to control and the UBEC seems like it's way too close to what will be a hot battery in the middle spot. I guess I will place my rx in the front battery bay, but I'd like to see some pics of your setups (nothing crazy - just typical single rx with battery at rear and middle.

I'm slowly getting a handle of my wiring. If you undo the twist tie by the blue box, you can get some extra slack on the ubec wiring and relocate it to the front bay. I am also needed to use the middle and back trays, and even then my index finger is right behind the CG mark (~10mm). Though it sounds like a lot of folks reporting it flies well with a slightly farther aft CG and less stab downtrim is needed.

We have wind gusts as high as 30 mph today, but I am hoping for a maiden tomorrow morning.

[Jacckall]

I'm slowly getting a handle of my wiring. If you undo the twist tie by the blue box, you can get some extra slack on the ubec wiring and relocate it to the front bay. I am also needed to use the middle and back trays, and even then my index finger is right behind the CG mark (~10mm). Though it sounds like a lot of folks reporting it flies well with a slightly farther aft CG and less stab downtrim is needed.

We have wind gusts as high as 30 mph today, but I am hoping for a maiden tomorrow morning.

Hi,

i want to use exactly same batteries 5000 Admiral. Report a maiden pls, if its good this position of batteries with -10mm CG.

[Evan D]

Flying great.

[Raydar]

I got my elevator replacement servos in yesterday. It's a quick install and fits just fine. They are a little bit taller but no issues with fitment. I'm currently doing a twin turbine conversion with Xicoy X-45 10 lbs engines. Already plumed the fuel lines and tanks. Did some nice weathering on the jet and made a centerline external fuel tank as well. Still waiting on the wheels and brakes, receiver and batteries to come in. I'll keep you guys posted if you're interested on the conversion build.

I am doing a single x45, flying off grass I cannot afford the extra weight of the two turbines plus the lead up front on landing and hope to have reliable front retract life, I expect mine to land way lighter than the edf version... Yours wil be a show stopper with the twins and you prob know you will have a s**t ton of power lol.

As said the 1.5 litre tank in the front battery bay is going to cause a massive shift on CG on this, like having a 1200g battery upfront then ejecting it mid flight, there seem sto be a massive CG range on this plane but still I think that amount of CG shift would do my head in. I think I would be more creative in seeing where else I could put fuel, On another plane I have I have two tanks, one behind wingspar/CG and one infront, the rear emptying first into the front, not ideal but reduces CG shift over having just one bigger tank infront.

If you could make that belly tank functional that would be ideal.

[radfordc]

That’s why i normally don’t respond to your posts. And it’s not whether it’s interesting it about the attitude...

Sort of like listening to Sheldon Cooper!

[Airguardian]

Servos

Sure, these are the ones I have at home or are on their way that I was considering for the task:

300Hz capable: KST-215MG, ALZRC DS452MG, PDI-1151MG, PDI-1109MG,

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dmc809-micro-digital-coreless-servo-25t-3-8kg.html

https://www.banggood.com/es/3PCS-KST-DS215MG-V3_0-Stainless-Steel-Gear-Digital-Servo-For-450-380-480-500-RC-Helicopter-p-1343821.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

https://www.banggood.com/es/ALZRC-Devil-380-420-480-X360-Parts-DS452MG-450-CCPM-Mini-Digital-Metal-Servo-p-1014382.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN

https://www.banggood.com/es/JX-PDI-1151MG-3_6KG-Mini-Coreless-Waterproof-120-Digital-Servo-For-RC-Models-p-1542519.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN

https://www.banggood.com/es/JX-PDI-1109MG-9g-Metal-Gear-Core-Motor-Micro-Digital-Servo-for-450-RC-Helicopter-p-1075300.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN

Normal 50Hz digital servos: Turnigy DMC809, Votik 9495 MG-D

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dmc809-micro-digital-coreless-servo-25t-3-8kg.html

https://es.banggood.com/VOTIK-9495-MG-D-19_2g-4_8kg-or-0_06s-Metal-Gear-Digital-Servo-Coreless-For-RC-Airplane-450-Class-Helicopter-p-1612493.html?akmClientCountry=ES&&cur_warehouse=CN