Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[RCAV8R]

Roger that Bill! Thanks for the heads up!! Rob

[janmb]

I agree with this, and have said it before. Part of the problem *may* be that a lot of us have the balance point set too far forward (per the manual) and in that position, the aircraft comes in a little faster and it is harder to get the nose up. It's hard to get the nose up on final, when its nose-heavy. It does a lot better with the batteries in the rear position. So sure, when you drive it in fast and hit the nose gear, <BAM> it will bounce back up every time. If you come in nice and gentle with the nose up, there is no bounce. I still have the original nose gear (I purchased a replacement which is still in the package) and its fine.

I agree. Bad cg will certainly add to the problem.

I think the root cause is (bad) pilot habits though. There is nothing inherently difficult about landing this model. But a lot of pilots seem to love their elevator too much and their throttle too little on approach. Which in turn leads to a dislike for drag - which is sad, since drag is an important helping factor in doing good, consistent landings (since it facilitates throttle usage)

Imo

[Porkster]

100% correct.

With the obvious danger of generalizing, almost every single video I have seen of people bouncing this model has been fast, unpowered elevator based landings, rather than throttle controlled, sink landings where the throttle is used actively. In my not at all humble opinion, a fair share of pilots would benefit greatly from using their throttle more and their elevator less.

That is a generalisation. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yUR5mZAvlK0
you can hear me use the throttle, you can see it land mains first. And it certainly wasn't fast.

[RCAV8R]

Wow Porkster, that is a great video of the problem! I must have missed that before. Thanks for capturing such a textbook case study on video! Rob

[TiredIronGRB]

Wow Porkster, that is a great video of the problem! I must have missed that before. Thanks for capturing such a textbook case study on video! Rob

Here's one I slowed down of that same video.

[janmb]

That is a generalisation. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yUR5mZAvlK0
you can hear me use the throttle, you can see it land mains first. And it certainly wasn't fast.

Hence why I wrote "most".

Your video definitely is a good example of an exception. Not too hot by any means, nice and active throttle, and starts rodeoing from just a tiniest bit of heavy setting. Very close to a perfect landing, but punished hard.

[Porkster]

Absolutely, I do agree that jets need to be flown into landing by using throttle for altitude and elevator for speed.
I have quite a short runway at just short of 300ft so it can be very unforgiving, I don't have the luxury of letting it land long and gentle for 600ft, I've seen some pretty bad videos of jets being forced down on massively long runways where either a go around or long landing would have worked.
The mains fully compressed when I landed and I still think the springs should be stiffer - and I should have throttled up and went around after the initial bounce!

Tired Iron, your version really makes me wince:Scared:

[janmb]

Absolutely, I do agree that jets need to be flown into landing by using throttle for altitude and elevator for speed.
I have quite a short runway at just short of 300ft so it can be very unforgiving, I don't have the luxury of letting it land long and gentle for 600ft, I've seen some pretty bad videos of jets being forced down on massively long runways where either a go around or long landing would have worked.
The mains fully compressed when I landed and I still think the springs should be stiffer - and I should have throttled up and went around after the initial bounce!

Tired Iron, your version really makes me wince:Scared:

Agreed on all points!

The slow-mo video shows one thing though: You do set her down quite hard/heavy. Which indeed suggests how soft the stock suspension is relative to the mass of the plane. From listening to the original version carefully, in hindsight you probably eased off throttle a little too much/little too early during late final/flare. But still, that's peanuts and hardly relevant here at all. The main thing to be taken from your video is how extremely little it takes for this model to rodeo like mad. As I said the first time as well, that landing was way too close to perfect to deserve that kind of reaction.

I too land on a short runway, and I love to land her on extremely low energy where perfect throttle is a must to keep her from falling out of the air, but I have the luxury of a far more forgiving surface than yours....

https://youtu.be/gYwqwoRd-ag?t=11m50s

[Porkster]

That's a well kept strip of grass. Nice gentle touch down.

[janmb]

That's a well kept strip of grass. Nice gentle touch down.

It is not real grass at all - it is a second hand, worn out set of artificial grass from our local soccer club (I believe it's called astroturf or something along those lines in the US).

After getting rid of most of the rubber granulate, the mat is an absolutely perfect surface to fly from - especially when combined with very good prep work before laying and gluing the mats. Slightly soft, but not too much so, slight drag, but again, not too much so.

If I could change it any way I wanted I wouldn't change a thing :D (other than dimensions obviously)

[crxmanpat]

Replacement Hawg arrives tomorrow. Can't wait to get back in the saddle.

[Topshot19]

Got 2 HRB batteries on amazon one is normal and one is freaking gehto !

[downwindleg]

Hey janmb, welcome to the thread. I read your comments and saw your videos and you made allot of great landings and I'm glad of that. Here's the thing, every good landing absolutely depends on perfect throttle control and decent rate as you have said. But I have always been told to have as much insurance as possible when flying so why not get the strut upgrades and not have to sweat having a perfect approach, decent rate, and throttle control? I won't bore you with how long I've been in the hobby but the A-10 is a different animal for me and is a stretch for my flying skills as I don't normally do EDFs. I'm happy for you that you are so good with your landings and have a forgiving runway but some of us don't have those advantages. I think that anyone who will get more enjoyment and less stress out of their hog by getting the upgrades should just go for it. There is no shame. Seems like far too much discussion about what everyone is doing wrong with their landings and not enough about how much fun they're having.
Respectfully,Brad

[DCORSAIR]

That is a generalisation. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yUR5mZAvlK0
you can hear me use the throttle, you can see it land mains first. And it certainly wasn't fast.

Wow, that was a good landing from what I can tell, and you didn't deserve those bounces, only thing I would say or see, it was maybe more of a plop down on the mains instead of a flare onto the mains, maybe??? I also changed my front stock tire to a main tire from the 90mm F-16, other than that mine is all stock. I'm only posting my video again to see if someone can spot the difference on why I have no bounce and yours did? I'm not saying by no means anything in anyway that yours is a bad landing and showing off my video for that reason, just trying to compare why you got a bad bounce. My A-10 is nose heavy too, my CG is not back where others are running, I'm around the 80mm but no more than 82mm. I also hold elevator even after the mains hit the runway so there is not much energy left. Please turn the sound down so you don't have to hear my voice, was a little nervous doing this video for the first time.

[1horse59]

Pat:
After reading all of the posts on the TL nose gear, I spoke with Motion RC earlier this week regarding when they expect availability. To quote Motion, they said they "have a ton of them coming in the next 3-4 weeks...but that time frame depends on customs." I will definitely get one of the TL nose gears and may even have it before it warms up enough to maiden my A-10. Pat, do you happen to have a closeup picture of your new TL nose gear that you could share? The reason I ask is so that I don't screw up when I get mine and install it incorrectly. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with the new gear.

Regards,
Jim

[1horse59]

Hello fellow A10-lovers,

Since the weather conditions in The Netherlands are far from ideal at the moment, I will have to wait for the maiden of my new bird.
Can't wait!

I have a question to you regarding the new TL-nose gear:
Initially, I (thought that I) was lucky enough to order it from the first batch that became available with MotionRC, together with some other spare items for the FW planes I have.

However, a few days after ordering I received the following mail from them:
"On the above order, the 80mm A-10 Nose Landing Gear B that you purchased is defective. We only received a limited number of these and more than a few were defective resulting in this shortage."

Is there anyone else that received such a message and had their TL-order cancelled?
Until now, I have not read about anyone that received a defective gear.

Not here:Whew:

[Porkster]

Wow, that was a good landing from what I can tell, and you didn't deserve those bounces, only thing I would say or see, it was maybe more of a plop down on the mains instead of a flare onto the mains, maybe??? I also changed my front stock tire to a main tire from the 90mm F-16, other than that mine is all stock. I'm only posting my video again to see if someone can spot the difference on why I have no bounce and yours did? I'm not saying by no means anything in anyway that yours is a bad landing and showing off my video for that reason, just trying to compare why you got a bad bounce. My A-10 is nose heavy too, my CG is not back where others are running, I'm around the 80mm but no more than 82mm. I also hold elevator even after the mains hit the runway so there is not much energy left. Please turn the sound down so you don't have to hear my voice, was a little nervous doing this video for the first time.

I'm looking forward to getting the upgraded main struts. I'm not sure what I did wrong on that landing but it did use the full compression on the mains which when they released started the bounce.
I've reversed the mains and haven't had this problem since and have approximately 20 flights on it.
This is a great plane and I really enjoy flying it.
I do use some heavy batteries in it, each pack is roughly 850g

[MikeT]

Got 2 HRB batteries on amazon one is normal and one is freaking gehto !

Wow. Think I'd send that crap back. I've had great luck with HRB batteries bought new on Ebay..

Mike

[ElCid]

For those of you on the east coast, the AMA East show is this weekend (old WRAM show). Roaring Top will be there and i am sure they will have a deal on batteries, i plan to come home with a few for my A-10 and F4. Motionrc should get a booth there, they would sell a ton of planes.

On another Note, almost done laying down my white paint on the a-10.. what a PITA getting that gray covered.

[janmb]

Hey janmb, welcome to the thread. I read your comments and saw your videos and you made allot of great landings and I'm glad of that. Here's the thing, every good landing absolutely depends on perfect throttle control and decent rate as you have said. But I have always been told to have as much insurance as possible when flying so why not get the strut upgrades and not have to sweat having a perfect approach, decent rate, and throttle control? I won't bore you with how long I've been in the hobby but the A-10 is a different animal for me and is a stretch for my flying skills as I don't normally do EDFs. I'm happy for you that you are so good with your landings and have a forgiving runway but some of us don't have those advantages. I think that anyone who will get more enjoyment and less stress out of their hog by getting the upgrades should just go for it. There is no shame. Seems like far too much discussion about what everyone is doing wrong with their landings and not enough about how much fun they're having.
Respectfully,Brad

Completely agreed Brad.

The only motivation behind focusing on pilot habits is to see as many as possible succeed and enjoy this great model. Not at all to berate anyone.

And yes, we should obviously also do what we can to make the model as good and forgiving as possible. But at the same time it is important to have realistic expectations as to how much can be solved by just improving the model.