Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

I'm was planning to convert my 80mm F.W. A-10 T'bolt to the 90mm nacelles and power...but I'm a little kornfuzed. Is it really worth doing? I remember seeing a few posts about doing this but not much detail...some say the 90mm's have more thrust with a 9 blade fan instead of the 12 blade fan??? I my 80mm fans are 9blade 1920kv. Originally I thought why not just put the 80mm, 2150kv 12 blade fans in and save the cost of the nacelles, 90mm fans, and larger ESC's? The only 90mm choice I can see are the 3668-1960Kv Inrunner but it's a 12 blade. I don't see a 1960kv 90mm for a 9 blade fan.I don't really understand the actual performance differences with the different size power packages. Can someone help me with this??? Right now it seems that I would be better off just putting the 80mm 3658-2150Kv brushless inrunner motors in the existing nacelles...or...possibly the 90mm 3668-1960Kv inrunner motors with 12-blades in the 90mm nacelles?...but then we get back to the benefits vs costs thingy? What I really want is more thrust; not more speed.
HELP

Thanks in advance,
Bill

IMO, the 80's are more than enough thrust. I exchanged my 80mm inrunners that came in my Mig 29 (that I upgraded with FMS 12 blade 80mm inrunners) and put those in replacing the original outrunners it originally came with. Tremendous improvement in thrust and efficiency and more than enough. 7-8 minutes on 2 SMC HiV 5900's and I fly off grass, still very short take-off runs without ever going to full throttle.

My flying buddy upgraded his to twin 90mm inrunners and it's just too much. Full throttle and the decals almost get ripped off in flight 🤣. He upgrades everything and this is the only one even he says is too much thrust, a waste of money.

Just my opinion tho

[Reptielenfreak]

I agree with Hugh Wiedman originals is good enough

[billd3]

I agree with Hugh Wiedman originals is good enough

Thanks for the feedback, fellas

[Airguardian]

A bit of 'slightly larger scale' inspiration for the brrrt lovers!

[billd3]

I'm about 40 pages from finishing the entire A-10 Brrrrrrtt thread...for the 2nd time...I originally bought my 80mm FW A-10 in early 2018 and put about 20 +/- uneventful flights on it. Then, on my next 2 flights at
about 50 feet after lift off It wildly rotated hard right at an altitude of about 10 feet, upon correction it went into a 1 1/2 snap roll, left. I was inverted when it stabilized and got it upright...WHEW. I stayed on with the flight with no more problems and landed. Like a first class idiot I put in a new pair of batteries and went out for a second flight and, you guessed it, it did the same thing again. I stayed with this flight too and landed without further incident. Everyone at the field thought I was doing this stuff intentionally since I also fly 3D kinda krazy... The bottom line was, I put the A-10 in the hanger for 4+ years. I'm now going over it and thought about going 90mm with the power so I thought it would be good to re-read the thread... Well, I finally decided to stay with the 80mm nacelles and power but I plan on installing 2 inrunner 80's on 2150kv with the 12b fans using the original 100A ESC's to save$$. A TON of new info on the thread over the last few years!!! I especially liked the Number and QUALITY of the many customization's of the airframe, so I thought I'd do that too., I was particularly impressed with the 3D printing done , particularly by Dirty Dee, and sorry to see he is no longer printing for other modelers. At 78 years I don't think I want to buy a printer and go through the learning phase.

I also saw many posts about the binding and calibrating of the dual ESC's...I wonder if an easy solution might be buying a dual EC5 power adapter so you can plug in both ESC's an then plug in both ESC's to the adapter and THEN plug the adapter into 1 battery for the binding and calibration??? Would that work?

BTW, my thanks to everyone who has contributed their thoughts and skills to this thread
Bill

ps: can't wait to get my A-10 flying again...Brrrrttttt

[billd3]

MICRO SOL- MICRO SET---I bought both and have been using them... NO where can I find out anything except the briefest of instructions on the bottles ( which seem to be the same, or darn well very close)...???????????? When do you use each? SOL...or...NET???
Bill

[Elbee]

https://www.themightybrush.com/article/how-to-apply-decals-with-microset-and-microsol/

MICRO SOL- MICRO SET---I bought both and have been using them... NO where can I find out anything except the briefest of instructions on the bottles ( which seem to be the same, or darn well very close)...???????????? When do you use each? SOL...or...NET???
Bill

Bill,

This vid should help you.

I use both when I designed and printed waterslide nomenclature and stencils for my FlightLine Corsair.

The solvents do not attack acrylic, latex, lacquer or enamel paints.

Worked great.

Best, LB

[Reptielenfreak]

I'm about 40 pages from finishing the entire A-10 Brrrrrrtt thread...for the 2nd time...I originally bought my 80mm FW A-10 in early 2018 and put about 20 +/- uneventful flights on it. Then, on my next 2 flights at
about 50 feet after lift off It wildly rotated hard right at an altitude of about 10 feet, upon correction it went into a 1 1/2 snap roll, left. I was inverted when it stabilized and got it upright...WHEW. I stayed on with the flight with no more problems and landed. Like a first class idiot I put in a new pair of batteries and went out for a second flight and, you guessed it, it did the same thing again. I stayed with this flight too and landed without further incident. Everyone at the field thought I was doing this stuff intentionally since I also fly 3D kinda krazy... The bottom line was, I put the A-10 in the hanger for 4+ years. I'm now going over it and thought about going 90mm with the power so I thought it would be good to re-read the thread... Well, I finally decided to stay with the 80mm nacelles and power but I plan on installing 2 inrunner 80's on 2150kv with the 12b fans using the original 100A ESC's to save$$. A TON of new info on the thread over the last few years!!! I especially liked the Number and QUALITY of the many customization's of the airframe, so I thought I'd do that too., I was particularly impressed with the 3D printing done , particularly by Dirty Dee, and sorry to see he is no longer printing for other modelers. At 78 years I don't think I want to buy a printer and go through the learning phase.

I also saw many posts about the binding and calibrating of the dual ESC's...I wonder if an easy solution might be buying a dual EC5 power adapter so you can plug in both ESC's an then plug in both ESC's to the adapter and THEN plug the adapter into 1 battery for the binding and calibration??? Would that work?

BTW, my thanks to everyone who has contributed their thoughts and skills to this thread
Bill

ps: can't wait to get my A-10 flying again...Brrrrttttt

As far as the binding and calibration i just asked my wife to get a battery and hold the ec5 ready to plug in.. counted 3 2 1 plugged them both in at the same time and it worked perfect.
can recommand a nose gear brace.

[billd3]

I just copied this from a post about 3 pages back:

"Originally posted by Evan D View Post

There are some reports of the limited time upgrade 80 and the reports said it was a good upgrade. All of FW's 80's have the same dimensions for fit so the 2150 should be a drop in. I have heard some going from outrunner to inrunner may need longer ESC to motor wires so that may be an issue. Also the 2150 pulls way over 100A (127A) on full throttle with a fresh battery so upgraded ESCs may be a good idea."

Now I'm REALLY KORNFUZED...a few years ago I remember someone telling me to not use an ESC that was rated less than 80% of the maximum AMP capability of the motor...For some time now I have wondered why it appeared that Motion was matching ESC's to motors with possible AMPS output were matching or exceeding the 100% stated ESC rating. Is there something wrong with my understanding.Now I haven't done any testing personally as yet but why would they do that?

Surely my understanding is wrong??? I've spent a few hundred $$ in the last year upgrading my EDF's based on Motions not making ESC changes (I'm specifically refering to the 80mm 2159kv motor using the 100 AMP rated ESC) ... Can someone re-educate me on the proper rules or guide lines for WOT AMP outputs vs ESC selection? I do have a Watt meter but I guess I have been lazy in my thinking that if a manufacturer was changing the "bigger"motor but keeping or using the same amp rated ESC, then I could as well... HELP

Bill

[Elbee]

billd3

Not to muddy the water more, the ESC recommended for the 2150Kv is 100 Amp and the ESCs you have are rated 100 Amp, so go with what ya got.

I bought a pair of the 2150's with the dual MiG-29 ESCs for my Tomcat and those ESCs are 100 Amp with reverse.

Unless you're running High Voltage LiPos, your logic is sound, IMHO.

Best, LB

[Reptielenfreak]

I just got the upgraded ESC witb thrust reverse and never had a problem on stock edfs those things as i wrote before are powerfull enough

[Hugh Wiedman]

I'm about 40 pages from finishing the entire A-10 Brrrrrrtt thread...for the 2nd time...I originally bought my 80mm FW A-10 in early 2018 and put about 20 +/- uneventful flights on it. Then, on my next 2 flights at
about 50 feet after lift off It wildly rotated hard right at an altitude of about 10 feet, upon correction it went into a 1 1/2 snap roll, left. I was inverted when it stabilized and got it upright...WHEW. I stayed on with the flight with no more problems and landed. Like a first class idiot I put in a new pair of batteries and went out for a second flight and, you guessed it, it did the same thing again. I stayed with this flight too and landed without further incident. Everyone at the field thought I was doing this stuff intentionally since I also fly 3D kinda krazy... The bottom line was, I put the A-10 in the hanger for 4+ years.

BTW, my thanks to everyone who has contributed their thoughts and skills to this thread
Bill

ps: can't wait to get my A-10 flying again...Brrrrttttt

Before you take it up again, you may want to check the existing aileron servos. Your last 2 flights where it rolled wildly are a concern. On My last flight of my A-10, the left aileron servo bugged out. I first got an uncommanded roll, then leveled it but had to trim 100% (still not enough) to keep it level, as it died and stuck slightly up. Landed and found the servo dead. Before going dead, some servos twitch (like one of the servos in my Mig 29's TV unit-eventually going dead) which could also cause your wild roll, eventually stabilizing after commanded inputs before it bugs out completely.

Or if you have a gyro, something going on wrong with that. I'm using the AR 637T Plus (or 8/10 channel) in all my aircraft and the gyro is solid. Used a separate gyro in my Mig for TV units originally, and it eventually started twitching wildly then went bad but was able to shut it off in air. The new "plus" RX's allow Several separate gyros so now I don't need a seperate one for the TV units or nose wheel. Those RX's are game changers, especially for landing.

Just saying you should investigate the cause of those wild rolls before going up again with new fans.

[billd3]

billd3

Not to muddy the water more, the ESC recommended for the 2150Kv is 100 Amp and the ESCs you have are rated 100 Amp, so go with what ya got.

I bought a pair of the 2150's with the dual MiG-29 ESCs for my Tomcat and those ESCs are 100 Amp with reverse.

Unless you're running High Voltage LiPos, your logic is sound, IMHO.

Best, LB

I guess maybe I am running HV's if you're talking about the ones that charge to 4.35v per cell. I use the SMC batts. ..but what about potential brown outs? IF I go to WOT for too long AND I have the 2150's at WOT for a while and they ARE drawing 127AMPS like the EVAN D post said am I asking for a "brown out" and potential problem?
Bill

[Elbee]

billd3,

You are asking about those things that are above my pay grade, Sir.

Best, LB

[f4u ausie]

Billed 3 r U overthinking... I do it Lots.. if the stock 90 mm setup for an f4 8s is 120 amp.. why would you need 127 for an 80mm 6s.. just sayin.. and I charge my 6000 4s HRB 2 of em too 4.3 volts.. but I didn't tell ya to do that.. did i good luck happy flying

[billd3]

Billed 3 r U overthinking... I do it Lots.. if the stock 90 mm setup for an f4 8s is 120 amp.. why would you need 127 for an 80mm 6s.. just sayin.. and I charge my 6000 4s HRB 2 of em too 4.3 volts.. but I didn't tell ya to do that.. did i good luck happy flying

I'm not sure you're getting my point...Based on my experience with manufacturers, they all are motivated to save as much money as possible; and based on the information I got from a very reputable and very knowledgeable person regarding the so called 80% rule I mentioned I, raised this issue only to try to verify if the present selections are the best for me...Please, not that I'm NOT suggesting that Motion or Freewing is cutting corners. I'm only wanting to feel comfortable that the information I'm getting from them is giving me enough information to make a selection within my own comfort level; particularly since it seems to be in conflict with previous information I have been given by another trusted source...since I'm making equipment choices which could cost me the money I spent; not to mention the safety of other people who may be present. I have experienced unexplained "brown outs" and have read, many reports on this and other forums of others who have experienced them as well. AM I overthinking??? It's very possible. I do it too...but it's the only way I know how to learn.
Bill

[Elbee]

billd3

If this were me, and I know it is not, I would:

Call Customer Service at MotionRC for a recommendation.

Check RCGroups Forum for a 2nd opinion or best guess opinion.

Check the EDF Manufacturers' Website for a recommendation on all OEM equipment upgrades.

If "I" couldn't find an answer after that, I think I'd take "she whose authority exceeds my rank" to dinner and ask her advice on a new hobby.

Respectfully, LB

[billd3]

If "I" couldn't find an answer after that, I think I'd take "she whose authority exceeds my rank" to dinner and ask her advice on a new hobby.
Respectfully, LB


Good idea but "I" do NOT have a "She whose authority exceeds my rank" ...
Bill

[Elbee]

billd3

Glad we all have a sense of humor here.

If I had a definitive answer for you, Bill, I'd give it.

At some point ya gotta go with your best solution and/or what is most comfortable for you, "the lesser of two weevils" to quote Russell Crowe as Capt Jack Aubrey.

Again, if it is me, I'd install the OEM originals that you already own and run some taxi tests, check for overheat, run some static run ups holding the model still, check for heat.

I know that neither of these are loaded tests, however, it is a start and doesn't cost anything.

Best, LB

[f4u ausie]

I loved the days of over engineering... But it's not the world we live in any more. Trust me I scratched my head when fms and fwing went 120 amp on their 8s setups. ... Really no-one should b %100 throttle all flight. I would suggest the %80 rule is likely true.. trouble then May well be we need to swap out all ESC s... Hello their lb hope U r well

[Elbee]

I am well, Sir, by any category that truly matters. LOL!