Official Freewing 80mm Avanti S Sport Jet Thread

[xviper]

Then you have a different issue that I've not heard of.

[Mach9]

Then you have a different issue that I've not heard of.

Same issue since the first batch of yellow, just a different perception.

[Cabunag65]

Can someone recommend a 5000 lipo for the Avanti, i really dont want to pay £135 for a battery.

[Jimrc73]

Can someone recommend a 5000 lipo for the Avanti, i really dont want to pay £135 for a battery.

Hi! I pay $109 US Dollars for my Admiral 5000 6S 50C LiPo from Motion RC. At today's exchange rate, that would be 90.03 Pound Sterling. You would have to check with Motion RC on shipping costs. Here is the link to their battery. https://www.motionrc.com/collections...-ec5-connector

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Jim

[xviper]

Can someone recommend a 5000 lipo for the Avanti, i really dont want to pay £135 for a battery.

Looking at MotionRC.EU, an Admiral 5000mah, 6s if going to run you 115 Euros. That's works out to be somewhere around 95 pounds, depending on conversion and CC charge. They're supposed to ship for free if over 100E. It's a little better than your 135 pounds. Also, I suggest you take a look at some of the offerings from HobbyKing in the European warehouse. I would recommend looking at their Graphene Panther, Graphene or their Turnigy Heavy Duty (in order of expense and perforance). Any of these will weigh much more than a "standard" LiPo but that's because you get more packed into them. A 5000mah of one of these would be equivalent to the punch and flight time of a 5500 to 6000 mah. Batteries can't be shipped by air, at least not by passenger plane, but can be shipped by courier or freight.
Ask some of your local flyers where they buy their batteries and what brands they can get. It may not matter what we can get in N. America. It's what you can get where you are and how much to ship it to you. It costs a lot to ship a Motion battery from the USA to me in Canada. It's the brokerage that's the killer. I can imagine what it would cost to ship to you from USA. Then you've got VAT.

[Turbo442]

Havoc vs the Avanti

I did a little write up on the comparison between the Havoc and the Avanti on RC groups this morning. I will re-post it here, might be interesting to some of you guys that hang out here.

My BNF Basic Havoc arrived Friday and first flight was Aug 4 2019. I have been flying the FW Avanti since it first was released. I had so many flights on (over 200) her I picked up a second one since she was starting to get a little rough around the edges. The new Avanti has probably 10 flights now. I have tried many batteries but keep going back to my tried and proven 6S5000 Turnigy HeavyDuty packs. I flew both planes back to back with these batteries.

Initial thoughts, the Havoc is a little bit smaller and lighter. RTF my havoc weighs in at 5Lbs 14 ozs. RTF my Avanti weighs in at 6Lbs 5 ozs. The Avanti has quite a bit more wing area than the Havoc. Interestingly the Havoc looks to have more surface area of its horizontal stabilizer. The landing gear legs on the Havoc look a bit nicer than the Avanti. The tires on the Havoc are smaller than the Avanti so grass operations should be a tiny bit easier with the Avanti and its larger wheels. I fly off 550' Geotex so it doesnt matter to me, The Havoc does not have lights, gear doors or a clear canopy so there was some cost savings there but you can also say weight savings. All the control rods on the Havoc come pre-connected to the control surfaces unlike the FW stuff. The Avanti has split flaps, the Havoc has flaps with full range of moment that can move up and down like an aileron if you want. Split flaps have the advantage of a cleaner wing and more accurate alignment when retracted which means more accurate roll trim especially at higher speeds. Full travel flaps on the Havoc means you can add functions like full span ailerons (high roll rate) or crow (Speed brakes). The down side is possibly less accurate roll trim. At the moment it looks like you can pick up an Avanti for $339 free shipping and a Havoc for $369 free shipping.

Notes:
The Havoc Length: 49.25" and Wingspan: 41.0"
The Avanti Length: 51.20" and Wingspan: 48.6"

Flying back to back there did not appear to be a huge speed difference between the two birds. I would imagine the Havoc may be a bit faster than the Avanti with its shorter wing but it wasnt obviously much faster. Vertical performance was roughly the same with both aircraft. I need to get some more time on the Havoc to really get a feel for her.

The havoc slowed down nicely and did not show any tip stall tenancies or weird stuff on landing. The Avanti can still float in slower than the Havoc.

Some of the things I did not like about the Havoc:
While connecting the servos and setting up the radio I noticed quite a bit of play in the control surfaces especially the ailerons and flaps. After a bit of investigation I noticed that Horizon mounts their servos in a little injection molded servo box that is glued into the foam. The servo box has a cover with two screws that allows for servo access. The servo is not screwed into place it is just held by pins inside this box. On both aileron and flap servos I could shuck the servos around probably 1/32" to 1/16" in its mount. This forced me to lift up all the servos and put a dab of hot glue in there to keep them from moving around. Do not use CA this will wick into the servos and mess them up. I secured the elevators as well although they seemed ok. I also noted the Havoc servos might ever so slightly not center as reliably as the servos on the Avanti.

I need to get some more time on the Havoc before I can really say much more about the flying characteristic of her. The wing to stabilizer incidence appears to be good, there was not any unusual elevator trim required. I will report back after a week of flying the Havoc. Overall the fit and finish on the Avanti could be argued that it is a little nicer. Also I would say the servos FW is using on the Avanti seem nicer and center better than the servos Horizon uses on the Havoc.



https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=8349

[Turbo442]

One more thing about the Avanti. I think a lot of people agree the Avanti has set the benchmark for foam sport jets. It really cant be faulted much in my opinion. If I was dreaming. REALLY DREAMING. Motion would ask Freewing to considering releasing the Avanti in a RTF SUPER LIGHT fiberglass or DARE I SAY carbon air/frame wing combo. Same servos, same landing gear. MAYBE scale it up 10% but possibly use the same landing gear, servos. I dont care if its fragile, make it light and rigid and pretty. I know its going to be expensive. But there could be a real market for RTF composite jets. I would be willing to drop $800~$1000 on a composite RTF Avanti.

[LawnDart]

Wow! If they had the same paint scheme it would be hard to tell the difference. I just ordered the Avanti but I did consider the Havac ever so briefly but decided against it due to the color and the lack of the little extra’s that come with the Avanti...

[LawnDart]

One more thing about the Avanti. I think a lot of people agree the Avanti has set the benchmark for foam sport jets. It really cant be faulted much in my opinion. If I was dreaming. REALLY DREAMING. Motion would ask Freewing to considering releasing the Avanti in a RTF SUPER LIGHT fiberglass or DARE I SAY carbon air/frame wing combo. Same servos, same landing gear. MAYBE scale it up 10% but possibly use the same landing gear, servos. I dont care if its fragile, make it light and rigid and pretty. I know its going to be expensive. But there could be a real market for RTF composite jets. I would be willing to drop $800~$1000 on a composite RTF Avanti.

Yep! I hear you regarding 90mm size composite... I looked all over the web for one.

[Hemidoo]

Turbo442 Nice work shop ! That's a lotta tool boxes :-)

[Hemidoo]

Oh , Nice Post too !

[xviper]

Yep! I hear you regarding 90mm size composite... I looked all over the web for one.

A composite in the 90mm size may not be as "light weight" as you might hope. I had a composite 90mm BD5 from HobbyKing some years ago. It was so heavy, it barely got off the ground and when it did, it was extremely sluggish and mushy. It had to be flown at max throttle virtually the whole flight or it would fall out of the sky. Mind you, today's ultra powerful 90mm EDFs with inrunners would do a lot better and of course, power it with 8 or 10 cells and the weight wouldn't be an issue.

[Turbo442]

Turbo442 Nice work shop ! That's a lotta tool boxes :-)

Thanks! And that’s Harbor Freight!

[Mach9]

Turbo442 Thanks for the info!!! How about a turbine conversion for the foam Avanti? I will choose the Avanti, especially since it has the big non-jet wheels. I do like the servos in a pocket though, IF done correctly. I also noticed the control horns on the Havoc have screw plates. That would give me more confidence since I had the horns pull out of the original Avanti. No problems with the newer triple sized horn base. If I was to choose 1 factory mod for the Avanti, it would be that they add the front landing strut brace as standard. Does the Havoc have the nylon hinges?

[Mach9]

Oh, the Havoc looks like a Viper. I always like the looks of Vipers.

[Mach9]

...a little more looking. The Havoc looks simpler with the nose, fuselage and fin all one piece with no doors and the wing one piece with no lights and the canopy one piece. That should mean easier assembly with less wiring and no special connectors. That also means you can't just buy the part that is damaged. I am not such a good jet pilot and sometimes knock the nose off my Avanti. That would be bad with the Havoc. The struts are shorter so should be stronger. Motion RC and Tower Hobbies are both great companies. The clincher is that the Havoc costs more out the gate and the parts are MUCH more expensive.

The HSD models are 75mm and 90mm with small wheels, an aluminum spar (not carbon) and has the convenient wing connector that I do not trust. No matter how you do it there WILL be a tiny movement and that is all it takes to make a connection fail. The connector and cable that the Avanti has is a better way to go. As stated previously "the Avanti has set the benchmark for foam sport jets."

[Turbo442]

I need to get some more time on the Havoc before I can really say much more about the flying characteristic of her. The wing to stabilizer incidence appears to be good, there was not any unusual elevator trim required. I will report back after a week of flying the Havoc. Overall the fit and finish on the Avanti could be argued that it is a little nicer. Also I would say the servos FW is using on the Avanti seem nicer and center better than the servos Horizon uses on the Havoc.

I now have 6 flight on the Havoc. Last night I made 3 flights on the Havoc and 3 on the Avanti back to back. Here are my thoughts.
Keep in mind I am I have the NON AS3X version of the Havoc.

I generally trim the aircraft for neutral flight at 50%-75% power settings.
With the Havoc, during high speed passes from a dive, I get a slight climbing input that appears to increase with airspeed. I am assuming the airfoil is generating a bit more lift at these higher speeds causing a pitch up moment. On some passes I also can detect a slight change in roll trim with airspeed which is annoying. I am assuming AS3X might mask both of these traits. The Avanti is completely neutral pitch and roll in these high speed ranges. Its easy to forget how nice she fly's until you try something else.

The Avanti is quieter than the Havoc. The motor on the Havoc has a higher pitch whine that is not present on the Avanti. Not huge but noticeable. The Havoc air frame its self is a little nosier at higher air speeds as well.

I did catch the Havoc dropping a wing on a slow landing. It recovered but it certainly lands faster than the Avanti. I would not recommend floating the Havoc in like you can with the Avanti.

I put 6 batteries in after the sun set last night. It was still light out, but as it got darker I had to concentrate more with the Havoc. Eventually I switched over to the Avanti, the lights are a real bonus and very functional at dusk. I would have kept flying the Havoc if it had lights.

I need to take the Havoc out when some one else is flying an Avanti so we can do a direct speed and vertical performance comparison. Its very hard for me to tell at this point, they both sound quite a bit different in the air.

I am trying to be as impartial as possible here.

If I crashed the Havoc tomorrow I probably wouldn't run out and replace it. If I crashed the Avanti I certainly would replace it unless something better came along. At this point I have not found it.

[Mach9]

I now have 6 flight on the Havoc. Last night I made 3 flights on the Havoc and 3 on the Avanti back to back. Here are my thoughts.
Keep in mind I am I have the NON AS3X version of the Havoc.

I generally trim the aircraft for neutral flight at 50%-75% power settings.
With the Havoc, during high speed passes from a dive, I get a slight climbing input that appears to increase with airspeed. I am assuming the airfoil is generating a bit more lift at these higher speeds causing a pitch up moment. On some passes I also can detect a slight change in roll trim with airspeed which is annoying. I am assuming AS3X might mask both of these traits. The Avanti is completely neutral pitch and roll in these high speed ranges. Its easy to forget how nice she fly's until you try something else.

The Avanti is quieter than the Havoc. The motor on the Havoc has a higher pitch whine that is not present on the Avanti. Not huge but noticeable. The Havoc air frame its self is a little nosier at higher air speeds as well.

I did catch the Havoc dropping a wing on a slow landing. It recovered but it certainly lands faster than the Avanti. I would not recommend floating the Havoc in like you can with the Avanti.

I put 6 batteries in after the sun set last night. It was still light out, but as it got darker I had to concentrate more with the Havoc. Eventually I switched over to the Avanti, the lights are a real bonus and very functional at dusk. I would have kept flying the Havoc if it had lights.

I need to take the Havoc out when some one else is flying an Avanti so we can do a direct speed and vertical performance comparison. Its very hard for me to tell at this point, they both sound quite a bit different in the air.

I am trying to be as impartial as possible here.

If I crashed the Havoc tomorrow I probably wouldn't run out and replace it. If I crashed the Avanti I certainly would replace it unless something better came along. At this point I have not found it.

Maybe for the slight roll change there is a tiny amount of flexing or slop in the ailerons. As for the pitch change and the tip stall, both could be an issue with the CG a tad off. The Havoc may be more sensitive to CG changes than the Avanti.

[Turbo442]

Maybe for the slight roll change there is a tiny amount of flexing or slop in the ailerons. As for the pitch change and the tip stall, both could be an issue with the CG a tad off. The Havoc may be more sensitive to CG changes than the Avanti.

I have been moving the battery around on the Havoc, hasn't made much of a difference. Its not like its really out of wack or anything, I'm just making some notes for those that our curious.

[Mach9]

Grrr, opened a new Avanti ARF Plus that I bought last October. The left flap screw is missing! This is when I wish it had servo pockets. I will probably need to check them all which means ripping them out and gluing them back it. With the brass shaft and steel screws it really needs threadlocker. I like the VC-3 which is reusable. BTW, they paint then glue so the glue is holding on the paint which is not holding all that well to the foam. Also, the plastic parts by the main gear wheel wells is not even in the ball park the same color as the paint and other plastic. I better check this one out good.