Official FMS 1500mm P-47D Razorback Thread

[davegee]

Davegee,

Do you have the curtiss prop for your cuffs or will you modify the tips on the Hamilton prop.
Beautiful day but winds around 30mph. Received my callie instrument panel so spent the day working on the cockpit. Wife helping to make seat harness, now need to get a good pilot.

Rex

Hi Rex: I pulled up this fact sheet that I found online regarding Curtiss Electric props. As you can see, during the war they continually modified them from the early "toothpick" to ones that had a pretty wide chord that seemed to help performance quite a bit. There are two Curtiss props that are near the right edge of the lineup that I used as a pattern, knowing that there is really no way they could be absolutely right on without casting all these parts yourself. I wasn't going to get into that level of detail (and brain damage!), so I settled with a simpler making of cuffs from styrene, instead.

I'll still have to see how full power runups and actual flying tests go before I can know this idea is workable. I think it should work, but that's why I'll do the tests to see how it goes. Will let you know, but it will probably be a little while as we have a major weather alert for most of next week for snow, wind, and even some rain!

Cheers

davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,

They had several different props throughout the war. I carved a Curtiss electric for my Yellow P-47, made a mold and used bondo to form 4 blades as my static prop. They say when they put the paddle blades on them they could really climb. Going to pick my wife up at her sisters in Columbus Ohio next week. we always stop at the Airforce Museum on the way back. Do you need any pictures of the P-47 they have on display? Believe it is painted as Robert Johnsons Olive Drab P-47, it is a P-47G that they have on display.
I have the basic paint on my Corsair, really nice and smooth after following you and Elbee's advice about poly clear before paint and sanding. Hardens up a lot. I do have some questions about your weathering of your Corsair. I will PM you later in the week if thats OK.

Hope your weather isn't too bad, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,

They had several different props throughout the war. I carved a Curtiss electric for my Yellow P-47, made a mold and used bondo to form 4 blades as my static prop. They say when they put the paddle blades on them they could really climb. Going to pick my wife up at her sisters in Columbus Ohio next week. we always stop at the Airforce Museum on the way back. Do you need any pictures of the P-47 they have on display? Believe it is painted as Robert Johnsons Olive Drab P-47, it is a P-47G that they have on display.
I have the basic paint on my Corsair, really nice and smooth after following you and Elbee's advice about poly clear before paint and sanding. Hardens up a lot. I do have some questions about your weathering of your Corsair. I will PM you later in the week if thats OK.

Hope your weather isn't too bad, Rex

Hi Rex: I know one of the planes on display is Fiery Ginger, named after the wife of Col. Neal Kearby who flew in the Pacific Theater in WWII. There is an excellent book called Race of Aces by John R. Bruning. You might enjoy reading it if you get a copy or on kindle. If you're not aware, there was a HUGE race amongst some of the top fighter pilots in the Pacific, (probably the ETO, too) to be the Top ace. They took incredible chances, and some paid the ultimate price for it. Kearby was engaged in a dogfight and got shot down. He parachuted out ok, but the Japanese pilot shot him as he was descending on his parachute. They later recovered his body, and a part of the rudder of that plane, that you'll find next to the airplane painted up in his colors.

Others like Tom McGuire died in their quest to be the top ace. He tangled with a Japanese fighter and was downed. The top ace for the USA, almost by default, became Richard Bong who ended up with 40 confirmed kills. Unfortunately, right after he returned home he went into flight testing of the new jet, the P-80. It flamed out shortly after takeoff and he baled out, but his parachute caught on the jet's tail and he rode it in with his airplane. His passing didn't make much news that day because it happened on August 6, 1945, the day we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima!

If you could get a pic of Fiery Ginger, and any other P-47s that might be there (I think there probably is one other, been awhile since I was there) but that would be great, but no big deal at all if you don't get the opportunity to do so. Have a great time there. I have always enjoyed this museum immensely!

I would be very happy to answer any questions you might have on weathering your Corsair. Sounds like you're really coming along on that plane!

We're battening down the hatches for a big winter storm baring down on us. Going to be a tough one. I don't think there will be more than 4-5 inches of snow, but with winds we get big drifts that are getting tougher for this old guy to clear out. But they say spring is coming. I believe that, it did last year, too...

Have a great and safe trip to Columbus and back!

Cheers

Davegee

[davegee]

Finally got to do some full power static runups with my two planes that I've added scale looking propeller cuffs that were used on the Curtiss Electric props. Also used the new 3D printed prop hubs that went with the CE props. Everything held together well, no movement of the cuffs or lack of power using them that I could see.

We have a pretty big winter storm bearing down on us, so probably have to delay flight testing until the snow melts and it clears up. I'm looking forward to seeing how the planes fly with this little scale mod on them.

[jetfool]

They look great. Glad your engine tests went well. I can't wait for spring to get out and fly. I might run up to Toledo in April, NASA is having a static show this year. Always went in past years and it gets you in the mood for spring. If I have my Corsair finished I might enter it just for fun.

Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

They look great. Glad your engine tests went well. I can't wait for spring to get out and fly. I might run up to Toledo in April, NASA is having a static show this year. Always went in past years and it gets you in the mood for spring. If I have my Corsair finished I might enter it just for fun.

Best Regards, Rex

Hi Rex: Well, we got Gobs of the white stuff coming down right now. So it will probably be a week or so before I can think of getting some flights in, but I am looking forward to it. Grossman56 and I had been talking about bringing all three of these jugs out to the field for a photoshoot when the weather turns good, I think I can pull that off because the wings easily come off with four screws and can be stacked like cordwood in the cab with the fuselages lined up in the back. We'll see.

If they have a fun fly event, or even if it's just to show off your planes, by all means, I would take your Corsair out and let everyone take a look at it. I think most modelers, especially of foamies, don't go to the lengths like you, Elbee, and I have gone to with our birds. There are certainly some beauties out there in foam, especially in the painting, but those of us who like to go that extra mile with this hobby are in the same brotherhood, I think.

Keep me (us) informed as to how things go this spring and if you bring your Corsair to Toledo.

Oh, I did have someone print those Corsair detail scissors parts for me. I have a whole bag of them, but it seems that they are too small to fit over the aluminum shaft of the kit gear. I didn't have enough time to think about it, but I'll look at your posts and see where I am going wrong. I would think if my printer guy had the same STL files, they would have printed the same. Haven't had any issues with any of his prints for things like the gunsights, interior parts for the Corsair cockpit, etc. If I have more questions after I try to suss it out, I'll check with you what to try next.

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,

Checkout my posts on that. I had to take a drill and ream out the little hairs inside to get them to go on. I listed the size of drills I used, just go slow by hand and they should fit ok. We have cold weather but no snow. I miss it when we don't get snow like we used too. Hope the wheel bushings work ok for you.

Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,

Checkout my posts on that. I had to take a drill and ream out the little hairs inside to get them to go on. I listed the size of drills I used, just go slow by hand and they should fit ok. We have cold weather but no snow. I miss it when we don't get snow like we used too. Hope the wheel bushings work ok for you.

Best Regards, Rex

Will do, Rex. We're pretty snowed in right now so I have the opportunity!

Cheers

Dave

[davegee]

I was able to get out to do my test flight on the OLE COCK P-47D with the new cuffs on the props and a new 3D printed Curtiss Electric prop dome. After the usual preflighting of another range chack, taxi checks, and full power static runup tests, I was ready to take it up for a flight. I have at least half a dozen flights on this airplane already, but this was the first with the new prop and prop dome arrangement that is scale for the majority of P-47s produced during WWII.

Takeoff was great, slowly advancing the throttle while applying increasing right rudder to keep it straight on the runway. Took off easily with about 3/4 throttle, and then I increased it some to do some maneuvers after I retracted the gear. I took off with the flaps up which was pretty standard with most P-47 takeoffs back in the day.

I was waiting to see if the plastic cuffs that I had made would come apart and fly off, but they stayed in there great. The sound was a bit different, but it had plenty of power, in fact I think more power per throttle position than I had with the smaller, stock prop. Did a few military maneuvers like barrel rolls and steep climbs, and then came in with a low pass, and pitchout to the left as I set up in a downwind leg and dropping the gear and going to full flaps. Plane came in fine, although I kept a little more power than I should have, but what had been normal setting with the smaller prop. Had a bit of a headwind, the airplane ballooned a bit but I decided to salvage the landing instead of going around for another try.

Touched down fine although at taxi speed it went off the side of the runway slightly into the dirt but no damage at all. I'll work on my landings. Been a while!

So, next time I'll take my other Jug Hairless Joe with the modified V3 Corsair prop and printed prop dome like this one has, and give it a go. At this point, I am encouraged that doing scale mods like this larger prop with the cuffs and 3D prop will definitely work for this airplane.

Attached are some pics after the flight today.

Cheers

davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,

HOORAY! Your mods are working. Looks great also. I think these bigger foam planes and larger motors are opening up a whole new era of scale possibilities.. The next thing I have thought about is a carbon fiber Trailing edge to give the sharp scale look. Just ideas for future builds. Glad you had good weather to get out and fly Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,

HOORAY! Your mods are working. Looks great also. I think these bigger foam planes and larger motors are opening up a whole new era of scale possibilities.. The next thing I have thought about is a carbon fiber Trailing edge to give the sharp scale look. Just ideas for future builds. Glad you had good weather to get out and fly Rex

Thanks, Rex. Yes, Elbee and I have talked about the very UN-scale trailing edges of these foam airplanes. That would be great if we can develop some sort of part that could be glued on to the trailing edges of these foam airplanes to make them look more scale.

I got my first 1500mm FMS P-47D razorback when they first came out around 2016. I chose a livery that had the HamStan prop for scale, although most of the P-47s came with Curtiss Electric props. I dreamed for years of getting to this point where I could have a scale looking prop and prop dome, and an accurate model in the paint scheme of one that actually flew with the Curtiss Electric parts. For me, should I ever decide to get another P-47 someday, I'll have a ton of different options to choose from. I may just stick with the three planes that I have, and go to other airplanes, but I'm very happy I achieved the goal I set out to do by getting the Curtiss Electric prop and dome successfully tested and flown. I look forward to many more flights with these airplanes.

Cheers

davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,

I believe you have raised the bar very high on your P-47s and Corsair. Now that you have a 3-d printer maybe you could design the trailing edges to the profile maybe 1/2" wide with a small tongue in the center to glue to the stab, ail., flaps. Remove 1/2" of the trailing edge foam and glue the 3-d part on, I realize each surface would be different contours but something to think about. With that printer your ideas can become reality. Looking forward to see what you do next.
I know my Corsair could be finished soon but Elbee is helping me with a 3-d cowl flap(open position) that can be installed fairly easy. Early stages but considering adding it before I'm ready to fly. Call me NUTS! Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,

I believe you have raised the bar very high on your P-47s and Corsair. Now that you have a 3-d printer maybe you could design the trailing edges to the profile maybe 1/2" wide with a small tongue in the center to glue to the stab, ail., flaps. Remove 1/2" of the trailing edge foam and glue the 3-d part on, I realize each surface would be different contours but something to think about. With that printer your ideas can become reality. Looking forward to see what you do next.
I know my Corsair could be finished soon but Elbee is helping me with a 3-d cowl flap(open position) that can be installed fairly easy. Early stages but considering adding it before I'm ready to fly. Call me NUTS! Rex

Hi Rex: I've hit a (hopefully temporary) snag on the 3D printer. I couldn't get the SD card with the printing code instructions on it to communicate with the printer when I plugged it in. So, I finally got online with their help desk, and was on for 5 hours! We arrived at a mutual decision that the problem seems to lie in the motherboard and the USB plug that somehow got slightly damaged inside. They are sending me a new board that is in the mail now from Prague, Czech Republic, but is expected to be here on Monday. Elbee says it isn't that hard to do, although it is 18 steps from start to completion. Assuming that goes well and that is indeed the problem, hopefully I can start branching out with other parts for air and space vehicles. I'll let you know what happens.

I would think that a piece of printed plastic that can fit on the trailing edge, be glued on and then putty and sand before painting, is a possibility. It sure would look better than the surfaces that they have on models these days. I don't blame them, they're making these for the masses, and if you thinned out this foam to a real scale look, they wouldn't fly well and would always break off. But we'll see, that's a possibility.

Good idea of the cowl flaps in the open position for your bird, a look that the plane would always have on the ground. Let me know how it goes and post some pics, if you're able to. I have three large 1/5 scale P-47s that I designed and put in a realistic cowl flap system using a servo where I could open and close them from my transmitter whenever I wanted to. It worked great and looked very cool, too.

Take care. We are supposed to bust up to 50 degrees next week at least for one day, so for us, that is like Miami, baby!😎😎😎

Cheers

davegee

[Grossman56]

Hey Dave, way back in post 911, you have a picture of your P 47's motor, what did you use as the electrical collar that feeds the wires to the cylinders? I was trying to think of something that would work on the F7F motors. I thought of using wire from packing slips for the leads, but still haven't come up with something for the collar.
Here's a pic from my DC-3.

Any suggestions?

Grossman56

[davegee]

Hi Dan: your picture shows the wiring harness for an R1830 14 cylinder engine, and has a flat curved wiring harness. Both this engine and the R2800 that was in the P-47, Corsair, Hellcat, and F7F Tigercat had the R2800 and I think almost all of them had a round cylinder versus this flat curved harness.

What I did was find some flexible solid tubing that was about the correct diameter as seen with pictures of the real thing. I cut it to length and bent it around something that was about the same diameter as the crank case of your airplane. You should be able to find something you can buy at Ace Hardware that will work. Once you have the shape, no matter what material you use, you can add little cylindrical nubs onto the outside of the curved piece you fabricated, and then run two wires out of each one to the cylinders. If you have a tube bender, you can use aluminum tubing, I'm guessing about 1/8 inch diameter or so, that could be curved and cut to fit around the crankcase of your Tigercat's engines. You can make a very believable looking motor if you have some good pics of the real ones and mimic as much as you want to how the full size one looks. Very doable.

Let me know how it goes.

Davegee

[Grossman56]

Thanks Dave, I have this pic and it's pretty good. Interesting that the R2800 harness was round where the 1839 was 'flat'


Grossman56

[davegee]

Thanks Dave, I have this pic and it's pretty good. Interesting that the R2800 harness was round where the 1839 was 'flat'


Grossman56

That's a good picture to go from, I'm familiar with it. The colors of the wiring to the sparkplugs varies quite a bit. I've seen them in this gold or brass color, black, silver, maybe other colors, too. You can imagine with so many thousands of engines being built by P&W and probably several other manufacturers under license to P&W, other materials would be approved that would vary the colors a bit.

I saw a B-17, can't remember which one now, but when it was parked a the ramp for the day, I looked at the R1820 engines. on the wings. The placard said "Studebaker" which I researched did a lot of the building of these engines under license to Wright-Cyclone corporation during the war.

Let me know what you come up with.

I've seen some flat harnesses but I don't recall any on the R2800, but it is possible one of the suppliers had a flat harness approved for installation on this engine. But every one that I've seen has been tubular, like what you show in your photo.

Dave

[davegee]

Finally got to do some full power static runups with my two planes that I've added scale looking propeller cuffs that were used on the Curtiss Electric props. Also used the new 3D printed prop hubs that went with the CE props. Everything held together well, no movement of the cuffs or lack of power using them that I could see.

We have a pretty big winter storm bearing down on us, so probably have to delay flight testing until the snow melts and it clears up. I'm looking forward to seeing how the planes fly with this little scale mod on them.

Did get to fly the Hairless Joe P-47D with the longer prop, cuffs, and Curtiss prop hub that was 3D printed. Got a good test on the ground with a couple full power runups and it was ready to go. However, after a normal and good takeoff, when I was climbing and turned on a downwind leg in the pattern, I heard a sudden "POP!", pretty quiet, but one I had never heard before. I suspected that one of the cuffs might have departed the airplane, but it was flying normally and I continued my test flight. When I landed, I got a pretty good landing, two-point, tail low, as I try to do with all these warbirds, and as it rolled out for landing, it suddenly made a sudden right 90 degree turn and I had no control over it. One of the few weak points of this airplane is the little plastic pin that fits in the tail wheel steering bracket when the gear is down, and allows the tailwheel to steer. I figured the pin must have brroken somehow, but it happened when the plane was going slowly and went off the runway into the mud. No damage, but I'll replace that pin with a metal screw that seems to do the job.

I wish they made that whole part out of metal, maybe I'll fabricate one someday, that won't break.

Regarding the cuff, that is easily replaced making another thin .005-.010" thick plastic sleeve and gluing it back on where the other one departed today. The final fix would be to have a cuff 3D printed that I will probably eventually go to. This is all test stuff right now, so there is a lot of learning involved, which is a good thing. Attached are a few pics of Hairless Joe after today's test flight.

Davegee

[spanner76]

Dang it that is one gorgeous plane!

[davegee]

Dang it that is one gorgeous plane!

Thanks, Spanner76. I went out this morning and got two more test flights on the Hairless Joe razorback you commented on above. I have several successful flights on each of my three FMS P-47s with the V3 props now that both you and I have run some tests on from two different sides of the globe! I have found that these planes do quite nicely on the Corsair V3 props, and even the extras I added to two of them like a 3D printed Curtiss Electric prop dome and the cuffs at the base of the propellers. And all have had no negative effects on flying, even when I have had one of the little plastic cuffs fly off the plane on a couple of flights. I think the problem was in the glue that I used to keep them attached to the prop, and I finally have that solved. They might not be perfect renditions of Curtiss Electric props and the dome, but I'm pretty happy with how they turned out, for now. I'd like to make the cuffs out of 3D printed design and material in the future.

This is really a fine rc airplane, in my opinion. There are a few annoying things like the small plastic tail wheel steering pin that has a propensity to break off sometimes, but it flies in a pretty accurate and scale manner if you want to do that, which I'm all about.



Please send pics and comments about your P-47s and the big props you have been testing, too. You were really the catalyst that got me going on using the FMS Corsair V3 prop to this slightly smaller FMS 1500mm airplane.

Cheers

davegee