Official FMS 1500mm P-47D Razorback Thread

[jetfool]

Pieces and parts started arriving today. Larger prop drive arrived from tower today - ordered wed. thanks, tower hobby
Plane and vs 3 prop arriving dec. 4 plus new Futaba rec, little Stearman arriving the 6th. Gonna be a great X-MAS again this year.

[davegee]

Pieces and parts started arriving today. Larger prop drive arrived from tower today - ordered wed. thanks, tower hobby
Plane and vs 3 prop arriving dec. 4 plus new Futaba rec, little Stearman arriving the 6th. Gonna be a great X-MAS again this year.

Sounds like FUN!!!

davegee

[davegee]

Davegee,
Yes, the #42-8461 is the one I'm looking at doing. My Dad gave me Roger A. Freeman's The Mighty Eighth book for X-Mas in 1971. It has several pictures of Lucky and it has the white nose and tail stripe, one picture shows 21 kill markings. I also have P-47 Thunderbolt Aces by Jerry Scutts. The color profile shows a red nose on cowling. Unless I find a picture with red nose I will go with white. Looks like this plane was well used and shows wear, which would be fun to copy.
Although a foam plane I'd like to represent the correct model. Enjoying our conversation on this plane and it's great you met many of the real pilots. Dad had 2 friends that flew B-17 & b-24 in ETO. Spent many hours listening to them tell stories. Thanks for pointing out the correct history.

Best Regards, Rex

You bet, Rex! Even thought they're foamies, I still try to give them my best shot at accuracy and realism, as you do. Precisely marking Johnson's aircraft 42-8461 is difficult because paint markings were changing quickly at that time. Some lasted just for a few weeks before they came up with a new standard. I'm pretty sure that this aircraft stayed in white nose and vertical and horizontal stablilizer stripes until Johnson changed to another aircraft, probably ALL HELL and finally Penrod and Sam to finish out his combat tour, which he got permsision to extend for several weeks.
I haven't been able to find a photo confirming the plane you're looking to repaint; perhaps there is one out there somewhere showing a red nose but if it was me I'd stick with the white stripes and you would certainly be correct at least for most of Johnson's tour in that aircraft.

I have seen one picture which shows Johnson, Zemke, and Mahurin standing in front of Johnson's plane with a P-47 with the Lucky logo painted on the cowl behind them. The cowl is definitely not white, but most probably red, in a black and white photo. But no date is affixed to the photo, so it is just a guess which airplane it was and when they painted the cowl. All 56th FG aircraft started painting the cowls of ALL aircraft red starting in February 1944.

I'll keep looking for any photos that might crop up that would be helpful in your quest to get the right paint and markings on your new aircraft.

Here is a link to some good model pics that look to be very accurate of Johnson's plane you want to recreate. This would be a good guide for an accurate look to this airplane while Johnson was flying it: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/...y-electrified/

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,

Great photos. More I look at the white nose, more it grows on me. A simple paint scheme but done correctly it would really POP. If I can make it look like yours (reduced full scale) I would be happy.
Question #4 - What brand of 6s batteries are you using? I have 1-6s batt. (Admiral)

that I bought with my FL Corsair. Using it in my E-flite FW-190 and it is great. Plan on getting more 6s batteries next spring and wondered what you are happy with. Motion's price is $109 and wondered if better or same quality at a cheaper price?

Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,

Great photos. More I look at the white nose, more it grows on me. A simple paint scheme but done correctly it would really POP. If I can make it look like yours (reduced full scale) I would be happy.
Question #4 - What brand of 6s batteries are you using? I have 1-6s batt. (Admiral)

that I bought with my FL Corsair. Using it in my E-flite FW-190 and it is great. Plan on getting more 6s batteries next spring and wondered what you are happy with. Motion's price is $109 and wondered if better or same quality at a cheaper price?

Best Regards, Rex

I think it would be "safe" to paint it white bands for right now. I've found somewhat of a log of his combat tour, and it is entirely possible that they did start painting the nose, and possibly the rudder of his plane before he moved to a newer -15 All Hell P-47 around March 15, 1944. I can't prove that at this point, but I'm thinking, if you put the white stripes on first, you can fly it as long as you want, and if we get concrete proof through some photo with the red nose and tail, you have already done the preparation for this, just like they would have done on the real thing. With a white base on the cowl, the red will show up better than if you just sprayed the red over OD. For the tail stripes, they painted over them with another color of flat green, you could make an artist's guess what looks better when comparing actual photos of the real things.

Regarding batteries, I still use the Admiral 6S batteries as I have in the past. However, Hugh Weidman turned me on to the SMC High Cycle Life Lipos and I bought a couple of 6S 5000 batteries. They are considerably cheaper (about $60 each) than the Admirals, and about 80C. I've had good luck with them as well. You can google to find their website from the above info I typed in. MIght be worth checking them out, too.

Cheers

Dave

[jetfool]

Thanks Dave.
I'll plan on the white for now. I have all the paint from other projects, latex mixed to my M&M color charts. I'm thinking of assembling plane stock to check all the servos, etc., then break it all down and remove stickers and fix any imperfections. Final sand then put 3-4 coats of polyacrylic clear on to harden the foam. Primer and finally paint. Going to weigh stock then weigh final version after completion just for curiosity. Thats the plan.
Would it be ok with you to post my progress here when I start after X-MAS?

Best Regards, Rex

[Elbee]

Thanks Dave.
I'll plan on the white for now....Would it be ok with you to post my progress here when I start?Best Regards, Rex

Rex,

You do not need permission to post relevant materials, Sir.

Please post all your build pix as you progress.

We all love pictures and airplanes.

Woo-Hoo!

Best, Steve

[jetfool]

Thanks Steve. Enjoy this site and friendships and want to do the right thing.
I plan to post the progress
Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Rex,

You do not need permission to post relevant materials, Sir.

Please post all your build pix as you progress.

We all love pictures and airplanes.

Woo-Hoo!

Best, Steve

Absolutely! Perhaps some will get something of use to them in their scale modeling activities! We can all discuss the various aspects of detailing your airplane in this particular scheme.

[davegee]

Thanks Dave.
I'll plan on the white for now. I have all the paint from other projects, latex mixed to my M&M color charts. I'm thinking of assembling plane stock to check all the servos, etc., then break it all down and remove stickers and fix any imperfections. Final sand then put 3-4 coats of polyacrylic clear on to harden the foam. Primer and finally paint. Going to weigh stock then weigh final version after completion just for curiosity. Thats the plan.
Would it be ok with you to post my progress here when I start after X-MAS?

Best Regards, Rex

Hi Rex: I've been inspired to do some more research on Bob Johnson, especially since I chose to paint up one of my P-47s in the colors of his final mount, Penrod and Sam, that he got his last two kills in before being sent home.


I have a record I found on his combat tour. Assuming that it is correct, it shows that his final mission in the "Lucky" aircraft you plan to replicate was on 15 March 1944, with 21 kills. His first kill was in "Half Pint" that later was in that epic brawl with the German ace pilot who just couldn't shoot him down. The last 5 kills wrere in All Hell (3 kills) and Penrod and Sam (2 kills) bringing him up to 27 for a final confirmed total.

Regarding the possible adding a red nose band stripe on your airplane, I'll post a picture of his plane, showing the red cowl band. Now, the pic is in black and white but you can see that in the photo the white band (upper left of picture) has been painted to red, and definitely is NOT white anymore. With Bud Mahurin also in the picture on the right, Mahurin had to bale out of his aircraft during a combat episode with a German fighter. The date was March 21, 1944. So, this picture had to be taken before March 21, 1944, and that means that Johnson was probably still flying Lucky during this time. Also, this airplane came to grief on March 22, with another pilot at the controls when it crashed into the sea.

I think this dates this photo to the correct plane, the one you are thinking of doing, and justifies in my mind that if you did want to paint the nose red, you would be justificed doing it, on the strength of this photo and the other supports for it I mentioned.

Again, totally your call, but if you decide to modify it from the white stripes someday, at least on the nose, it would still be historicaly accurate. You'll have lots of time to consider all your options and decisions as time unfolds...

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,

Thank you for your time and research. I'm reading Johnsons book Thunderbolt after many years sitting in my bookshelf I am relieving his experiences. Hard to believe what 18-25 yr olds went through back then and what went through their minds.
I really like the red nose and tail and may do it because of all the posts I've read this plane really flies well and want to fly this ASAP
Wife laughing tells me to take my time to decide because no presents get opened till X-MAS morning. DRATS!

With Tail Between My Legs, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,

Thank you for your time and research. I'm reading Johnsons book Thunderbolt after many years sitting in my bookshelf I am relieving his experiences. Hard to believe what 18-25 yr olds went through back then and what went through their minds.
I really like the red nose and tail and may do it because of all the posts I've read this plane really flies well and want to fly this ASAP
Wife laughing tells me to take my time to decide because no presents get opened till X-MAS morning. DRATS!

With Tail Between My Legs, Rex

Funny! I think it is reasonable, on the strength of that photo that I pulled up confirming that before Johnson moved up to the more capable -15 model (ALL HELL) although only flying it for a few weeks but getting 3 kills in the bargain, that they had gotten around to paint at least the nose, and would have painted (or maybe did, we'll never know) the tail, too. Since the plane was lost in March 1944 when it crashed into the sea while being flown by another pilot in horrible weather it's anybody's guess, and to this point I haven't seen really good photos to prove otherwise.

So, if you paint the nose red, the other thing that goes with that is spraying over the white bands on the horizontal and vertical tail with a different shade of green to contrast slightly with the base OD coat that you sprayed on the rest of the upper surfaces of the plane.

I think for the rudder, you can keep it OD like the rest of the plane, or paint it red like the plane would have been for all the airplanes at this time period. We will probably never know if they had gotten around to paint it or not, based on lack of photos and the fact it was lost forever in March 1944. Your choice on that one, and I doubt anyone could contradict your choice.

I can try sending some photos of my plane that came from the same squadron and time frame if you have any questions.

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
My color profile of the red tail doesn't show the red tail so that is how I would do this version. Would enjoy seeing photos of your white nose model, I like that version also.

Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,
My color profile of the red tail doesn't show the red tail so that is how I would do this version. Would enjoy seeing photos of your white nose model, I like that version also.

Best Regards, Rex

Hi Rex: here is a photo of my Hairless Joe early D model flown by Col. Dave Schilling in 1943. Note the red surround of the stars and bars that lasted only a couple months before they changed it to blue. Also is a P-47D Ole Cock flown by Donavan Smith a little later in the first half of 1944. Ole Cock has the large V3 prop in side view, and Hairless Joe is shown on the tarmac with the smaller stock kit prop for testing. The closeup pic of Hairless Joe shows the prop hub and the cuffs and the printed longer CE prop dome. All these flew great.

The Ole Cock tail configuration (marked out white tail stripes and OD rudder) is what I think Lucky looked like in the spring of 1944 Johnson flew his final missions in this airplane. Things were changing very quickly paint scheme-wise, in the 56th FG during this time. The changes didn't stop really until the end of the war in Europe in May 1945.Was the rudder painted red yet on Lucky before it was lost in March 1944? Without a photo, we'll never know one way or the other. I guess your choice on that one.

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Photos look great. The white nose plane seems like it might stand out better in the sky, maybe not. Figure after I have plane in OD then I can choose red or white.
Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,
Photos look great. The white nose plane seems like it might stand out better in the sky, maybe not. Figure after I have plane in OD then I can choose red or white.
Best Regards, Rex

Yes, no hurry in deciding what you want to do. We know that the white bands on the tail and cowl were definitely a part of this (Lucky) paint scheme. And then they went through so many changes in the next year of the war until May 1945. There is no penalty should you decide to paint the white bands on first, see how you like them, and then make a decision if you want to put the red cowl band and rudder if the mood strikes you.

Looking forward to your build blog on HS after Christmas, but in the meantime, we certainly can go through any questions you may have as you think about the exciting build to come!

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
I'm sure I will have a million questions on the scale details, weathering etc. when I progress with the build. Modelers like you and others is what makes this hobby great and this a fantastic forum. In the meantime, I am gathering materials and documentation for this build. Need to find reason my phone won't download to my e-mail (worked last yr). Have to get Grandson to fix it. Lol

Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,
I'm sure I will have a million questions on the scale details, weathering etc. when I progress with the build. Modelers like you and others is what makes this hobby great and this a fantastic forum. In the meantime, I am gathering materials and documentation for this build. Need to find reason my phone won't download to my e-mail (worked last yr). Have to get Grandson to fix it. Lol

Best Regards, Rex

Thanks, Rex. It's a pleasure to work with others of similar drive and interests. I know your P-47 will be a beautiful work of art when completed, and look great in the air. I have a number of suggestions you might want to try on your plane, not the least of which is the ridiculous way they designed the tailwheel doors to operate open and closed. You'll see what I mean when you get yours, and the fix is pretty easy and much more scale, to be sure.

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Really got a big SUPRISE tonight. Although tracking said it was to be delivered the 5 my wife said a package arrived tonight and lo and behold a box that says P-47. No damage to box so just have to wait till X-MAS morning.

[jetfool]

Really got a big SUPRISE tonight. Although tracking said it was to be delivered the 5 my wife said a package arrived tonight and lo and behold a box that says P-47. No damage to box so just have to wait till X-MAS morning.