Official Freewing 64mm Lippisch P.15 Thread

[xviper]

Think about my first EDF. Looking at the Panther, F85 and the P15. Actually I am leaning towards the P15. I have watched many videos on these planes and it seems the P15 seems to be a bit quieter that the others. Is this true of just comes out that way on the videos? I know these things are not inherently quiet but I fly at parks and need to keep the noise down as much as possible. It sounds like at slower speeds the P15 really isn't to bad on noise. How about the other two?
This would be my firs EDF. What would you suggest for a park flyer kinda guy?

thanks

If this is your first EDF and you are looking at something you can discreetly fly in a park, take a look at the Horizon Hobby line of UMX EDF planes. They are small and light (more suited to a park where you could get yourself into trouble with the authorities) and not too noisy and easy to hand toss. They have built-in stabilizers that are good to go out of the box. They currently only sell the Mig-15 and the Citation but if you can find a little A-10 in a hobby shop, that one was really nice. Horizon Hobby products are sold at almost all local hobby shops and they can get them in for you.
https://www.horizonhobby.com/categor...1/ultra-micros
The P.15 needs a good toss at high throttle or it'll auger itself into the ground. Once in the air, even at lower throttle, it's still quite fast. I don't think you want a really fast EDF in a park. The small 64mm Panther, with its stubby little wings may be hard to get into the air without drama. It can fly pretty fast, too. Did you mean F-85? It's a goofy looking little plane that was carried under the belly of a big transport plane and launched by letting it drop. Or did you mean the F-86 Sabre? I've seen many of these in 64mm and smaller and they are underpowered and also hard to launch because they just don't have sufficient power to get flying unless you throw them hard like a football and that can cause them to roll into the dirt. The bigger ones (70mm+) have retracts and they don't like grass - again not suitable for a park.
Don't let "park flyer" fool you. It doesn't mean you can fly them in a park. Many local, state and federal regulations will forbid you from flying most RC planes in a "park". There may be exemptions for an RC aircraft under 250 grams.

[thumbs]

Thanks. Sorry F-86. One of the parks I fly I have been there for years. No problems so far but that was all prop stuff. I would guess its about 5 or 6 football fields in size where I fly. Its located at the end of a much bigger pard area where people jog and such. Not to many people around but the area I fly is kinda close to the tennis courts. No one has even batted an eye with my planes so far. I don't want to ruin a good thing. LOL I just bought a FW 190 Dora yet to maiden. This too will be pretty quiet. I was lookin at the the Horizon stuff but its a bit out of my price range being new to EDF. Just asking cause I really do not know. I thought the p15 has a pretty wide flight envelope. I'm not a balls to the wall flyer even with the prop stuff. Is it within reason for noise at lower speeds. I can rip it when no one is around or upon occasion. Just asking thanks

Oh how about the Freewing mig?

[xviper]

Thanks. Sorry F-86. One of the parks I fly I have been there for years. No problems so far but that was all prop stuff. I would guess its about 5 or 6 football fields in size where I fly. Its located at the end of a much bigger pard area where people jog and such. Not to many people around but the area I fly is kinda close to the tennis courts. No one has even batted an eye with my planes so far. I don't want to ruin a good thing. LOL I just bought a FW 190 Dora yet to maiden. This too will be pretty quiet. I was lookin at the the Horizon stuff but its a bit out of my price range being new to EDF. Just asking cause I really do not know. I thought the p15 has a pretty wide flight envelope. I'm not a balls to the wall flyer even with the prop stuff. Is it within reason for noise at lower speeds. I can rip it when no one is around or upon occasion. Just asking thanks

Oh how about the Freewing mig?

The Dora is the same price as the UMX Mig-15 and the Citation is a few dollars more. In many ways, a small EDF is safer than any prop plane in that it is less likely to cut someone if you hit them. The little Freewing Mig would be a nice plane, too, but it's a PNP so if you want it to be stable for a hand launch, maybe put in a stabilized RX or just try it first without a stab to see how you manage with it.
I can't speak for the park you fly in. I just know that it's not recommended to fly in any public park in my city even though some people do fly small planes in a few of the bigger parks but they have to be very careful. Law enforcement here looks out for such activities.

[thumbs]

Yeah Im pretty lucky here. People pretty much do their own thing. The local police station is on the other side of the park. Never any problems. Of course I am the only one I know of that flies there. I'm also reasonably conservative in my flying. I just don't want to bring undue attention to myself. Im not a look at me kind of guy. If there are people around I just go to another place. Its probably the largest field I have though.

As for the price. I will have to check. The ones I saw were in the 3 hundred dollar range. Way to much for me. I wouldn't enjoy flying it for fear of smashing it up. LOL
I was watching a video about the Mig from Boozer or something like that. He was saying it flies so stable he doesn't use a stabilizer in it. Of course much better pilot that I. I did put on in the Dora mostly to help with the wind. I put it on an on and off switch. Let me take a look at the umx stuff.

The UMX Mig 15 is pretty cool. Its also pretty small. There are pros and cons there. i have a Eachine 15" p51 with stabilization and any wind really kicks it around. I have flown it in 7 or 8 mph wind but it was not fun and at one point the wind took her away. Was lucky and was able to fly her out of the problem but the actually happened twice. The P51 is a fun flier though. You have to keep er in pretty close. I would imagine the UMX Mig 15 would be about the same. Another plus is it is easily transportable in the box like my P51. Not discounting anything but right now I think she may be a bit to small for me. I kinda like the 30" size planes. Small enough to take camping but large enough to see and a bit easier to fly. All my flying is done on grass, well 90%, anyway. I know I can take the gear off. Still goin back to the P15 though. Always open to other ideas though. If I can fly the P15 at lower speeds she may be what I need. Idono but again still open to suggestions.

[xviper]

There is only 2 UMX (Ultra Micro) jets on that page. The rest are not.

[thumbs]

Wondering how the P15 flies on a 3s 2200 battery? The reason I ask is I have a Dora that uses that battery and it would be nice to be able to use these batteries in either plane. I have a few 3s 1500 Zippy batteries I could use in the P15 but a longer flight time would be nice.

[xviper]

The recommended battery for the P.15 is a 3 cell, 1000 - 2200mah. The P.15 needs good airspeed to start flying. If you use low C batteries and if you can't do a really good, fast throw, you'll end up throwing it into the ground. It won't have sufficient thrust if you do a "girlie" throw. Zippy batteries are "OK" but it depends on the "C" rating. Low C Zippies don't perform well for EDFs. Zippies sag very quickly and can't keep up when demand is high.

PS. Hand launched planes like the P.15 can really benefit from about 3 - 5 degrees of "reflex" programmed to a switch for the launch. Get it flying and flip the switch to turn off the reflex.

[thumbs]

Thanks again. As I get deeper and deeper into the muddy waters of the hobby I learn a lot of what not to do.LOL Flying my little homebuilts really don't have any specific needs. Getting into these bigger heavier more powerful planes creates a fast learning curve. Anyway, if I decide to go the P15 route I have to try to consider the costs at least at the beginning. Thats why I was trying to be able to use one battery for both planes. I will be using the Admiral 3s 2200. I will be gettin a battery with the P15 so I will have two I can interchange with the two planes. The Zippy batteries are 3s 1500"s 35C. I wanted to use them until I could get a couple of batteries more suited to the needs of the planes. I guess the better way to go is to use the Zippy's in the Dora and save the Admirals for the EDF. Although I don't know about the ability to get the right CG on the Dora with a lighter battery.

I will have to get back to you on the reflex thing. I have no idea. I get the idea of a bit of up trim at the beginning then backing off in flight. Is that done with the trim buttons.or is that on a switch? What I mean is give it a few clicks of up trim get er up to speed then click to adjust for level flight. Is that how its done?

I have no idea yet as to how I may go with this EDF thing I may even wait a while. Who knows LOL

[xviper]

I will have to get back to you on the reflex thing. I have no idea. I get the idea of a bit of up trim at the beginning then backing off in flight. Is that done with the trim buttons.or is that on a switch? What I mean is give it a few clicks of up trim get er up to speed then click to adjust for level flight. Is that how its done?

You can do it with trim but that takes so much longer to undo. 3 degrees of reflex (UP elevator) is a lot and as the plane starts to gain airspeed, that trim has to come off quickly. I used to count the number of clicks of trim I put in so that I can quickly count the number of clicks to take it out. Now, I put it on a switch. In the case of the P.15, it's a mix that's put on the gear switch. As I said:

PS. Hand launched planes like the P.15 can really benefit from about 3 - 5 degrees of "reflex" programmed to a switch for the launch. Get it flying and flip the switch to turn off the reflex.

[thumbs]

Ok Ill see if I can fine it and figure how to get it programed. I think the gyro is programed into the gear. All this is new to me. LOL Anyway will the Dora benefit from 3 degrees of reflex programed into the mix?

Is that why I see the P15 dip when it is hand launched on the youtube videos? I know part of it is the low air speed and basically stalling until the dip where it can gather just that little speed to get the lift.

[xviper]

Ok Ill see if I can fine it and figure how to get it programed. I think the gyro is programed into the gear. All this is new to me. LOL Anyway will the Dora benefit from 3 degrees of reflex programed into the mix?

Is that why I see the P15 dip when it is hand launched on the youtube videos? I know part of it is the low air speed and basically stalling until the dip where it can gather just that little speed to get the lift.

You can pick any unused switch to do the reflex. Just make sure it's not assigned to something else. If it's a 3-pos switch, just skip over the middle position.
HINT: This is for my Lippy. I use the gear switch, but you could use (eg.) AUX1 or AUX2 and choose any unused switch. Just assign the switch to AUX1 or 2.

The dip is caused by a couple of things. 1. It's doesn't have enough airspeed in the beginning so it falls. 2. The holes in the bottom of the plane act like a vacuum cleaner and suck the plane down at low airspeed and high air intake. I've modified my exhaust with a piece of overhead projector plastic to direct the exhaust upward so as to push the tail down when in flight. This counters the vacuum effect on the most part. The reflex also helps to keep the nose up when launching.

I don't know if I've posted this video here but anyway ..........................................
You can see at .04 seconds into the video, I flipped the switch and both elevons went up a little. You can also see the small piece of clear plastic on the bottom lip of the exhaust hole.

As you see, it still took a dip before it flew. I'm at 3500' elevation.
In answer to your question about the Dora using some reflex on the launch. That depends on how you throw it, if you throw it. Most prop planes don't need reflex on a hand launch. Torque roll on a hand toss is more of a problem.

[thumbs]

Ok I kinda get the idea. Not sure right now how to program in the 3 degrees as of yet. I plan to hand launch the Dora. The vast majority of my planes are hand launched but they are all much lighter than the ones we are talking about here. Just for the heck of it, and to get a feel for the power, I held the Dora vertically and gave it full throttle. Although it would not vertically clime out of my hand it did become about neutral hanging on the prop. As I recall some people are launching the Dora "underhanded". It seems to have enough power to pull out given a reasonable push. The P15 is a different story it seems. I am listening to you when you tell me about the pros and cons of the P15 but that thing is so darn cool I can't help but want one. I think my fields are large enough to fly it. If not there is still plenty of farm land around to get permission to fly.
The mod to the exhaust is that just a straight piece of plastic or is it slightly angled up. Does just a little extra length at the bottom of the exhaust do the trick by itself? I'm at 465' ASL here not quite so thin as where you are.
I kinda like hackin around. LOL I may just try to put some reflex in the Dora. Maybe not to fly her that way but just to see if I can do it.
First attempt was a failure. Actually it cut even my gyro off until I unplugged it and plugged it in again. On switch A where the gyro used to be in the gear mix the switch still moves the gear meter or gain but nothing happens. It works find using the R Knob though.

[xviper]

That little tailpipe piece is just straight, not angled up. When you get this plane, you'll notice that the exhaust tube is not uniform in thickness, top to bottom. That difference in thickness causes the exhaust to go down, which is in effect, producing down elevator. That plastic is just enough to deflect some of the exhaust back up or at least, reduce the amount that goes down.
The 3 degrees is a guess. You may find it needs more or less based on your launching technique.

[thumbs]

Yeah I was watching a video about the hand launching of the P15. The guy said the same thing about the reflex. I think he trimmed it into the elevator. He showed the trim on the plane. Not much like you said just a couple or so degrease. I can see it would be much faster and easier to program it into the mix. I guess I could just hold a couple of degrees into the elevator but that would be hard to duplicate each flight. I'll try it again tomorrow to try to program the DX. I am hoping and waiting for better weather to get out. If no very windy its raining. LOL I won't be flying the Dora as of yet. I want to some flight time in before that. Haven't been flying for a month or so.

[thumbs]

Having trouble getting the reflex to work on myDX. I think I set mine up like the picture you took above. The difference is my gyro is in mix 1 so I am trying to program it in mix 2.
I go to Mix 2,
Aux 1 elevator, rate 0%-----25% offset 0%
then I trie to set it up on switch A
When I flip the switch the box in the Ger moves from -100% to 100% Nothing moves in Aux 1

When I plug the receiver in the elevator does not put in the reflex. I know I am doin something wrong but there must be a step here I am missing. Again when I flip switch A the indicator in the Ger bar moves not the one in Aux1. It may have something to do with the 0% for the bar on AUX 1. Idono thanks

[xviper]

You have to tell the TX what "A" is controlling (or not controlling). In your case, you want switch "A" to affect AUX1 but you haven't told it that yet. Normally, AUX1 is for flaps and that's controlled by that long switch on the front of the TX. On my DX8, that's switch "D" by default. If you are going to use AUX1, you have to tell it what switch you want to control it. You are using switch "A" but that's normally for gear, which you are using the knob to control (according to the picture you put up). You are getting all your switches and knobs and ports all jumbled up. The TX can't figure out what you're trying to tell it to do. You need to go into port assignment and switch assignment to straighten all that out. Aren't you using the knob to control the gear channel to control the master gain on your gyro? You have to tell the TX NOT to use switch "A" for gear in that case because right now, it seems you are commanding the gear channel with BOTH switch "A" and the knob. That's confusing the heck out of the TX if you try to use switch "A" for something else.
It might be helpful to read the manual for the transmitter to understand what all that means. In essence, you're jumping several steps ahead without learning the steps you jumped over. It's somewhat hard to teach you all the steps over the internet. It's something that must be learned by reading or by trial and error or by another person in your presence who knows what to do when told to "do a mix for reflex and put it on a switch". Then that person can actually show you.
For now, it might be better to just count the ELE trim clicks when you get ready to launch the plane. Then unclick it once the plane is flying. I hope I'm not offending you by insinuating that you are "old" (as you already stated). That's not my intention. I'm 70 years young myself.

[thumbs]

Crap. I edited my last post but it didn't edit. What you said is exactly what I did and it works. I tried to edit the post to let you know. When I throw switch a the box in the elevator bar moves and the elevator on the plane is raised about 3*. Everything else works fine. I tried to let you know what I did but again it just didn't go through. Sorry about that

I had to figure what the heck was goin on. Then I realized what the problem was. At least now I can dial in the reflex in the P15 if I get it. I think Ill leave it on the 190 and not use it unless I have to. I should probably take a pict of the proper setup and post it in case someone is reading this thread. It may help them set the DX properly, or at least the way I did it.

Ha no offense about the old. Got ya beat by three years though. LOL I like figuring these things out if I can. Keeps ya thinking. I learn better by figuring it out. The problem with the manuals is the assume you know something maybe ya don't. Also, in my case, they never address what i am trying to figure out. I run into that all the time. The internet is my resource. There is no one around I know of that flies, no hobby shops, nothin.

Well still waiting for some decent weather. If its not windy its raining. Supposed to be 15 to 20 tomorrow.

What battery do you find works the best in the p15? Do you think the 2200 Admiral would be a good choice or to heavy?

Anyway again thanks for all the help.

[thumbs]

This is the way I have it setup on my DX8 for reflex. Mix 1 for the Gyro on the Ger R knob..Idono maybe this will help someone.

[themudduck]

Hey Thumbs, I've been watching the conversation... I thought I'd jump in, I have flown the Lipp with the 2200 and it does fine, but makes the plane considerably heavier. It flies better with a 1500 or 1800. I use the 2200 when its windy, the extra weight seems to help it cope a little better. I find that when I'm using the 2200 it doesn't seem to provide a great deal of additional flight time (I have to use more throttle probably because of the extra weight).

The reflex trick certainly works.

When I have a flying buddy available, I have him throw the model at about a 60-degree "up" angle for the launch - and by the time the plane levels out after it's "dip", its flying fine. So that's another technique you can try. Of course it helps if you have a buddy with a good arm!

By the way I've also flown this plane with a 4-cell 1800. It scoots like a bat outta hell.

[thumbs]

[QUOTE=themudduck;n254511]Hey Thumbs, I've been watching the conversation... I thought I'd jump in, I have flown the Lipp with the 2200 and it does fine, but makes the plane considerably heavier. It flies better with a 1500 or 1800. I use the 2200 when its windy, the extra weight seems to help it cope a little better. I find that when I'm using the 2200 it doesn't seem to provide a great deal of additional flight time (I have to use more throttle probably because of the extra weight).

The reflex trick certainly works.

Thanks. As we were talking about above I just got a Dora with a 3s 2200 battery. I was kinda hoping I could share some batteries between the two. It does make sense the 2200 needs more power for flight. Again I have a few 3s 1500's I may just try. Exviper stated they may not work well considering the sag. I'm just trying to get some commonality to my batteries. And being able to charge a couple of batteries at the same time rather than having to go through two charging cycles for two different capacity batteries. Kinda gettin out of hand. LOL I really cant rip this thing around. Most of the videos show the Lippy at full throttle ripping up the sky. I don't have the room for that. I need it to fly slow to medium speeds. How do you find it does at those speeds? Im glad Exviper clued me in on the reflex and got me to be able to get it programed in my DX.

thanks for chiming in.