Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[e4dragongunner]

Brilliant !!!

[Stevonoles]

Maidened my brand new F-18 blue Angels this morning. The plane flew great for the first minute and a half. After that, the elevator just quit working. I had no vertical control at all. I just watched as the plane slowly lost altitude and went into the forest near our field. I read a lot about these elevators being a problem and it’s reported to only be a very small percentage. Very Disappointed in motion and free wing for letting this continue without reimbursing people or trying to figure out a solution. I own the F 22, the F 35, and the F4 and have had absolutely no issues. I don’t believe it is the blue box because the F 22 has had absolutely no issues. The sad thing is, I can’t find the airplane so I have no way of trying to figure out what happened or even letting motion know what I think happened.

[Aros]

Maidened my brand new F-18 blue Angels this morning. The plane flew great for the first minute and a half. After that, the elevator just quit working. I had no vertical control at all. I just watched as the plane slowly lost altitude and went into the forest near our field. I read a lot about these elevators being a problem and it’s reported to only be a very small percentage. Very Disappointed in motion and free wing for letting this continue without reimbursing people or trying to figure out a solution. I own the F 22, the F 35, and the F4 and have had absolutely no issues. I don’t believe it is the blue box because the F 22 has had absolutely no issues. The sad thing is, I can’t find the airplane so I have no way of trying to figure out what happened or even letting motion know what I think happened.

I am very sorry to hear that. Yes, it has been well documented that the first run of these F-18s have had issues. We have been fully transparent with customers including posting a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) and replacement models have been sent out to customers who have been one of the unfortunates, myself included. Do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service team this Monday first thing. They will do everything possible to make sure you are taken care of.

[Stevonoles]

Thank you. I did follow the TSB. However, mine did not have the problem. I will contact customer service on Monday.

[DCORSAIR]

Maidened my brand new F-18 blue Angels this morning. The plane flew great for the first minute and a half. After that, the elevator just quit working. I had no vertical control at all. I just watched as the plane slowly lost altitude and went into the forest near our field. I read a lot about these elevators being a problem and it’s reported to only be a very small percentage. Very Disappointed in motion and free wing for letting this continue without reimbursing people or trying to figure out a solution. I own the F 22, the F 35, and the F4 and have had absolutely no issues. I don’t believe it is the blue box because the F 22 has had absolutely no issues. The sad thing is, I can’t find the airplane so I have no way of trying to figure out what happened or even letting motion know what I think happened.

Wow, didn't know this was still a problem, by now I thought this was fixed, my elevator servo wires were cut from the sharp edges of the plastic servo mount, did you check for sliced wires on the elevator servo?? I had problems on my BA version and my grey one. Hope you find your jet and I am sure MRC will take care of you.

[Stevonoles]

I did check for the Chafed wires on the servos. Found nothing wrong. I too thought the problem had been taken care of.

[andrew_flyguy]

Hey Y'all, Been Christmas-ing too much, but got back to dry-fitting and some 'pilot' work. Lookin' mo' betterer, but a few things yet to do. Callie Graphics in another week to 10 days, as she be bein' a busy woman. Hope to button the cockpit up over the weekend and will post a couple more pics then. Best always, LB

That is AMAZING in all the ways!!!! Fantastic job, Elbee!!

[Pete Lane]

Sad indeed.

[RichJ53]

Thank you. I did follow the TSB. However, mine did not have the problem. I will contact customer service on Monday.

Do you have any friends with a nice DJI Mavic 2 drone? You have them go up and look for your airplane from the air. Using my goggles and the Mavic really has great visibility ….

sorry for your loss and good luck with the recovery
Rich

[Stevonoles]

I wish someone in our club had one. We thought of that right away. After several hours of searching, we are giving up. Here in Florida, it is too much of a risk of snakes. And other wildlife.

[RichJ53]

I wish someone in our club had one. We thought of that right away. After several hours of searching, we are giving up. Here in Florida, it is too much of a risk of snakes. And other wildlife.

I didn't think about that, yikes. Contact Chad at Florida drones they may know someone in your area that could help you out. If I lived there, I would help you out! Many of the drone guys are the same way and willing to help.

Rich

[xviper]

If you have a mini-cam like a Mobius, you could tape it to the wing of another plane or sailplane. Have it pointed forwards and slightly down and go fly a grid pattern around where you think it went down. Have a laptop with you so you can download the video and then review the video at the field. I've found 3 planes in this fashion for others. Two were with sailplanes and one was with a flying wing. I've done it with a quad but a plane covers more area in less time You don't have to have a real time view (via FPV) of the area.

[Stevonoles]

Update, In speaking with Andrew at Motion, they will not help at all. I understand that this is an extremely odd situation, losing the plane completely, but I figured they would help in some way, seeing they know about this elevator issue, and taking into account the many planes I have purchased in the last few years. $700 worth of plane, battery and receiver gone in less than 2 minutes and they just blew me off. Puts a very sour taste in my mouth. I love this plane, but I strongly recommend no one purchase it until they fix the problem.

[JamesonC]

If you have a mini-cam like a Mobius, you could tape it to the wing of another plane or sailplane. Have it pointed forwards and slightly down and go fly a grid pattern around where you think it went down. Have a laptop with you so you can download the video and then review the video at the field. I've found 3 planes in this fashion for others. Two were with sailplanes and one was with a flying wing. I've done it with a quad but a plane covers more area in less time You don't have to have a real time view (via FPV) of the area.

I found one this way as well. We put a camera on a slow flying cub and just flew a pattern over the woods like you said. Landed the cub and watched the video at the field, saw it and walked out to get it.

[Stevonoles]

#T196833 Please read what to expect from Motion RC if you need assistance

Print

Closed Customer Service 12/30/2019 8:44 AM	Steve Reynolds stever@cunninghamoil.com (386) 316-0584

Steve Reynolds posted 12/30/2019 8:44 AM

Good morning, My wife Lori purchased the F-18 BA for me this Christmas. Plane went together and tested out perfectly. On my maiden flight, I flew for about 1:30 and then all of a sudden I had no elevator response at all. I watched as the plane flew right side up and gradually lost altitude until it went down in the forest near our field. We have searched for hours with no luck finding the plane. I followed the TSB sent with this plane and checked for the issues mentioned. This plane did not have the problems covered in the TSB. I have the F4, F22, F35 and the F86 and have never had this problem. I know this has been an issue with this plane and waited for it to be resolved before ordering. I was advised to contact customer support to see what can be done. Not only did I lose the plane, I lost the 6000 battery and receiver. Who should I speak with concerning this issue? Order #445568 My phone #

Thank you
Steve

Created by Steve Reynolds 12/30/2019 8:44 AM

Andrew O'Bannon posted 12/30/2019 11:48 AM
Thank you for contacting Motion RC Support.

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your F-18. Please fill out the below crash report and attach pics of the damaged plane. I need you to pull out both ELE servos and take pictures of the wire leads and I need to see what color the output splines are on the servos as well. I will then have Freewing look over your report and determine if it's covered under warranty or not.

There are very few, if any, companies in the RC industry that will warranty a model airplane after it has been flown. However, we understand that there are rare occasions when a product related issue is the sole cause of an airplane crash, and in those cases we believe that some form of compensation may be appropriate. Requests for compensation related to airplane crashes are a complex matter which requires a thorough review of the case details and submission of clear evidence of a manufacturing defect. This review process will be managed by our senior technical staff and can take anywhere from 2 to 5 business days depending on the complexity of the case. You will be required to provide evidence in the form of photos and/or videos and will be asked detailed questions related to the flight and the aircraft during the review process. IMPORTANT: You will likely be asked to return the product or individual parts to Motion RC in order to facilitate our review, so do not throw away ANY part of the plane. Your Customer Service Tech will discuss the possible Return of any part or parts and will make the arrangements for the return.

Once we have had the opportunity to complete our review, we will classify your case into one of the following three outcomes:

1. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue was the sole cause of the crash. Full replacement or refund is offered.

2. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue “may” have contributed to the crash; the data is not 100% conclusive. A replacement airplane will be offered at up to 50% off retail price. A $20 shipping fee will automatically be applied to the replacement order.

3. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue was NOT the cause of the crash. No compensation is offered.

Our review team will provide an unbiased and very thorough analysis of the case details. Once they render their decision the outcome is final.

NEXT STEPS:

If you have not done so already, please send us the following items in order to begin the review process:

1. Your order number

2. Photo of the plane in its current condition

3. Photo of the battery and ESC in its current condition

4. Video of the flight in which the crash occurred (if available)

5. Summary of electronics used with the plane: brand / type of battery, receiver, and radio

6. Summary of your flying experience (example: flying for 2 years, own 5 planes, this is my first jet, etc.)

7. Summary of your flight location and environmental conditions at the time of the incident (example: Runway Surface, AMA sanctioned field, partly cloudy, 65 degrees, 10mph wind, etc.)

8. Detailed account of what happened when the crash occurred.

9. Your AMA number (if applicable)

10. Contact information of a spotter or witness (if applicable)

Thank you,

Steve Reynolds posted 12/30/2019 12:00 PM
Andrew, as I stated in the report, there is no plane. It was lost in the forest. Cannot be found. All I have is pictures of it before I flew it.

Steve Reynolds Vice President Cunningham Oil & Lp Gas Co. Inc.
386-253-7621

On Dec 30, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Motion RC USA Support wrote:

Thank you for contacting Motion RC Support.

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your F-18. Please fill out the below crash report and attach pics of the damaged plane. I need you to pull out both ELE servos and take pictures of the wire leads and I need to see what color the output splines are on the servos as well. I will then have Freewing look over your report and determine if it's covered under warranty or not.

There are very few, if any, companies in the RC industry that will warranty a model airplane after it has been flown. However, we understand that there are rare occasions when a product related issue is the sole cause of an airplane crash, and in those cases we believe that some form of compensation may be appropriate. Requests for compensation related to airplane crashes are a complex matter which requires a thorough review of the case details and submission of clear evidence of a manufacturing defect. This review process will be managed by our senior technical staff and can take anywhere from 2 to 5 business days depending on the complexity of the case. You will be required to provide evidence in the form of photos and/or videos and will be asked detailed questions related to the flight and the aircraft during the review process. IMPORTANT: You will likely be asked to return the product or individual parts to Motion RC in order to facilitate our review, so do not throw away ANY part of the plane. Your Customer Service Tech will discuss the possible Return of any part or parts and will make the arrangements for the return.

Once we have had the opportunity to complete our review, we will classify your case into one of the following three outcomes:

1. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue was the sole cause of the crash. Full replacement or refund is offered.

2. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue “may” have contributed to the crash; the data is not 100% conclusive. A replacement airplane will be offered at up to 50% off retail price. A $20 shipping fee will automatically be applied to the replacement order.

3. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue was NOT the cause of the crash. No compensation is offered.

Our review team will provide an unbiased and very thorough analysis of the case details. Once they render their decision the outcome is final.

NEXT STEPS:

If you have not done so already, please send us the following items in order to begin the review process:

1. Your order number

2. Photo of the plane in its current condition

3. Photo of the battery and ESC in its current condition

4. Video of the flight in which the crash occurred (if available)

5. Summary of electronics used with the plane: brand / type of battery, receiver, and radio

6. Summary of your flying experience (example: flying for 2 years, own 5 planes, this is my first jet, etc.)

7. Summary of your flight location and environmental conditions at the time of the incident (example: Runway Surface, AMA sanctioned field, partly cloudy, 65 degrees, 10mph wind, etc.)

8. Detailed account of what happened when the crash occurred.

9. Your AMA number (if applicable)

10. Contact information of a spotter or witness (if applicable)

Thank you,

-------------------------------
Andrew
MotionRC
Customer Support


www.motionrc.com
www.hobbysquawk.com


We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please do not send another email. Instead, reply to this email or login to your account for a complete archive of all your support requests and responses.

The information in this electronic mail message is sender's business Confidential and may be legally privileged.
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Steve Reynolds posted 12/30/2019 12:20 PM
Andre,



I answered the questionnaire below.



Thank you


Steve Reynolds
Vice President
Cunningham Oil & LP Gas Co. Inc.
400 Carswell Ave
Holly Hill, FL 32117
386-253-7621













From: Motion RC USA Support [mailto:support@motionrc.com]
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 12:49 PM
To: Steve Reynolds
Subject: Re: Elevator failure on F18 BA Order #445568 [#T196833]




Thank you for contacting Motion RC Support.

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your F-18. Please fill out the below crash report and attach pics of the damaged plane. I need you to pull out both ELE servos and take pictures of the wire leads and I need to see what color the output splines are on the servos as well. I will then have Freewing look over your report and determine if it's covered under warranty or not.

There are very few, if any, companies in the RC industry that will warranty a model airplane after it has been flown. However, we understand that there are rare occasions when a product related issue is the sole cause of an airplane crash, and in those cases we believe that some form of compensation may be appropriate. Requests for compensation related to airplane crashes are a complex matter which requires a thorough review of the case details and submission of clear evidence of a manufacturing defect. This review process will be managed by our senior technical staff and can take anywhere from 2 to 5 business days depending on the complexity of the case. You will be required to provide evidence in the form of photos and/or videos and will be asked detailed questions related to the flight and the aircraft during the review process. IMPORTANT: You will likely be asked to return the product or individual parts to Motion RC in order to facilitate our review, so do not throw away ANY part of the plane. Your Customer Service Tech will discuss the possible Return of any part or parts and will make the arrangements for the return.

Once we have had the opportunity to complete our review, we will classify your case into one of the following three outcomes:

1. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue was the sole cause of the crash. Full replacement or refund is offered.

2. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue “may” have contributed to the crash; the data is not 100% conclusive. A replacement airplane will be offered at up to 50% off retail price. A $20 shipping fee will automatically be applied to the replacement order.

3. It is determined that a stock, unmodified product related issue was NOT the cause of the crash. No compensation is offered.

Our review team will provide an unbiased and very thorough analysis of the case details. Once they render their decision the outcome is final.

NEXT STEPS:

If you have not done so already, please send us the following items in order to begin the review process:

1. Your order number Order #445568

2. Photo of the plane in its current condition N/A

3. Photo of the battery and ESC in its current condition N/A

4. Video of the flight in which the crash occurred (if available) N/A

5. Summary of electronics used with the plane: brand / type of battery, receiver, and radio Spektrum DX6 , Spektrum AR620 and Admiral PRO 6000

6. Summary of your flying experience (example: flying for 2 years, own 5 planes, this is my first jet, etc.) 9yrs exp. I fly the Freewing F4, F22, F86, F35 also several Precision Aerobatics planes XR61, KMX Etc..

7. Summary of your flight location and environmental conditions at the time of the incident (example: Runway Surface, AMA sanctioned field, partly cloudy, 65 degrees, 10mph wind, etc.) Partly cloudy, 75 degrees, wind maybe 2 mph. runway material (not sure of name or brand) Ormond Beach Radio control club. We are an AMA sanctioned field #4549 29.288091, -81.089697

8. Detailed account of what happened when the crash occurred.
Good morning, My wife Lori purchased the F-18 BA for me this Christmas. Plane went together and tested out perfectly. On my maiden flight, I flew for about 1:30 and then all of a sudden I had no elevator response at all. I watched as the plane flew right side up and gradually lost altitude until it went down in the forest near our field. We have searched for hours with no luck finding the plane. I followed the TSB sent with this plane and checked for the issues mentioned. This plane did not have the problems covered in the TSB. I have the F4, F22, F35 and the F86 and have never had this problem. I know this has been an issue with this plane and waited for it to be resolved before ordering. I was advised to contact customer support to see what can be done. Not only did I lose the plane, I lost the 6000 battery and receiver. Who should I speak with concerning this issue? Order #445568 My phone #386-316-0584


9. Your AMA number (if applicable) 951744

10. Contact information of a spotter or witness (if applicable) Terry Marcum 386-212-5520

Thank you,

-------------------------------
Andrew
MotionRC
Customer Support


www.motionrc.com
www.hobbysquawk.com

We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please do not send another email. Instead, reply to this email or login to your account for a complete archive of all your support requests and responses.


The information in this electronic mail message is sender's business Confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee(s).
Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized.
If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken
or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of
any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent.
Cunningham Oil is not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.

Andrew O'Bannon posted 12/30/2019 1:03 PM
Steve,

I am sorry I missed that detail. Unfortunately Freewing will not honor a warranty without having a plane to determine what may have caused the crash. If you can located the plane please reply with the requested pictures.

Regards,

Closed by Andrew O'Bannon with status of Closed 12/30/2019 1:03 PM

Steve Reynolds posted 12/30/2019 1:30 PM
Andrew,



This is extremely disappointing to hear. I really do not need assistance from Freewing. I need assistance from Motion RC who knowingly sold me a product that probably should have been recalled from the start. I did my part and waited for the problem to be resolved before ordering, hoping I would miss out on the first run with issues. My wife and myself have purchased several thousands of dollars’ worth of products from you in the last few years. I don’t know your cost on this plane, but a little financial help would go a long way in keeping me as a happy customer. The facts are, Motion RC knows of a specific problem with this plane, there have been several reports of failure. I know this is not a normal situation with the plane being completely lost but Motion RC should shoulder some of the responsibility. I hope Motion RC can understand that I lost $700 worth of airplane, battery and receiver in less than 2 minutes. You can see my wife and I’s buying history, and can reasonably assume that I know how to fly these EDFs. I am not asking for a new plane, only some form of compensation that we both can agree on. Please let me know your final decision so I will know how to proceed.



Thank you


Steve Reynolds
Vice President
Cunningham Oil & LP Gas Co. Inc.
400 Carswell Ave
Holly Hill, FL 32117
386-253-7621













From: Motion RC USA Support [mailto:support@motionrc.com]
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 2:03 PM
To: Steve Reynolds
Subject: Re: Elevator failure on F18 BA Order #445568 [#T196833]




Steve,

I am sorry I missed that detail. Unfortunately Freewing will not honor a warranty without having a plane to determine what may have caused the crash. If you can located the plane please reply with the requested pictures.

Regards,

-------------------------------
Andrew
MotionRC
Customer Support


www.motionrc.com
www.hobbysquawk.com

We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please do not send another email. Instead, reply to this email or login to your account for a complete archive of all your support requests and responses.


The information in this electronic mail message is sender's business Confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee(s).
Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized.
If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken
or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of
any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent.
Cunningham Oil is not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.

Steve Reynolds added Sbicnik via Email (cc) as collaborators 12/30/2019 1:30 PM

Reopened by SYSTEM 12/30/2019 1:30 PM

Andrew O'Bannon posted 12/30/2019 1:59 PM
Steve,

I am sorry but with no plane a warranty determination cannot be made and no compensation can be given. The fact is we have sold many hundreds of the F-18 with zero issues and in this hobby there are factors out of our control that can lead a plane to crash. I don't know of any store that would warranty a high end item like this without the damaged product being present for troubleshooting the cause. I am sorry for your loss.

Regards,

[Evan D]

Put yourself in their shoes. You lost a plane and don't know why. Sure there is a history of some of these having an issue, but you don't know why yours went in and it may or may not have been a defect that caused it. You ruled out the two things that the notice was about and since you said you lost pitch that tells me that both hor stabs went out (or you would have had a rolling issue). Hopefully you find it, can figure it out, and then you can contact them again.

As far as don't buy them until they fixed the problem, they need to know the problem to fix it.

Update, In speaking with Andrew at Motion, they will not help at all. I understand that this is an extremely odd situation, losing the plane completely, but I figured they would help in some way, seeing they know about this elevator issue, and taking into account the many planes I have purchased in the last few years. $700 worth of plane, battery and receiver gone in less than 2 minutes and they just blew me off. Puts a very sour taste in my mouth. I love this plane, but I strongly recommend no one purchase it until they fix the problem.

[Stevonoles]

Yep, it did have to be both stabs at the same time, Which would lead me to believe the BB failed somehow. Just bad luck I guess.

[Evan D]

I agree it could have been the BB and there have been issues across many planes where people suspect the BB. A few have even proved it to be the BB, either loose solder balls inside or poor solder joints. One person (if it happens to one person it's probably happened to others) used a higher voltage separate battery to power his electronics (a 2S Lipo) and it fried a few things. But most reported BB issues are not the MCBe BB, they have been the smaller ones.

Hopefully you do find it and can figure it out. Also Motion has, more than a few times, come back after they said no and a higher up in the company authorized compensation so maybe you will hear back?

[JamesonC]

I hate that you lost the plane. But, what they are saying isn't unreasonable. Hard to expect them to warranty something when the plane is missing in the woods and you can't investigate what happened. Like Evan said, the early planes that had elevator issues were rolling uncontrollably in due to one stab failing due to glue or servo wires being pinched. This isn't what happened to yours by your own description. So, to say you got sold a plane with a known issue and that they are still selling a plane with a known issue is incorrect. Yours could have been a blue box issue, a rx issue, a radio issue, etc, etc. But, without the plane it is impossible to know and unfair to blame Freewing and MRC if you don't know what actually happened.

Don't give up on finding it out there. Surely someone has a mobius type camera to strap to a trainer or something and do a little search that way.

[xviper]

I found one this way as well. We put a camera on a slow flying cub and just flew a pattern over the woods like you said. Landed the cub and watched the video at the field, saw it and walked out to get it.

In two of the cases I mentioned, one was in a wheat field. From the video, we discovered that we drove within 15 feet of the downed plane and even standing in the truck bed, we could not see it due to the tall wheat. In the other case, I walked within 3 feet of it and could not see it due to the tall grass. It was only from the air that we could actually see exactly where we had to go to find it.