Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

Mine won't get off from grass. It's never cut short enough for the F-18 to get rolling fast enough to get up to take off speed. I do have jets that will just barely make it and it almost does what the poster said. It jumps into the air and almost stalls. If I rotate just a bit earlier, it would have stalled. The problem is NOT the springs. It's trying to rotate before the plane has enough speed to actually fly. Because of the huge elevators on this plane, it's possible to rotate it before it's ready. Then it goes into high alpha and reduces the lift even further. I don't fly this plane off grass anymore, at least not until they cut it much, much shorter.

Wow, that's surprising, thanks for the heads up XV. The stock F-18 is about 7 ounces lighter than the stock F-4's and both have the exact same EDF. Both my F4's get off our grass field just fine, so I was assuming the F-18 would also, but haven't tried it yet. I'll have to have my fingers crossed if I ever get out there again for the maiden. Our grass is cut twice a week (but grows like crazy here in Florida) and is moderately short, so maybe that will help. I can say without flaps, my F-16 had a hell of a time getting off, but the SU-30 (with flaps) did just fine. So only time will tell.

Thanks again for the warning, I'll be sure to cut it down before the end of the runway if it hasn't gotten airborne.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Alpha,

Quick question, and bear in mind I know very little about EDF's; I usually stick with the stock motors and just fly them, wouldn't really know the difference anyway. Since the upgraded 9 blade 3672-1900kv inrunner that is now coming with the F-18 Blue Angel may not be available for some time and the 90mm base gray F-18, which currently only comes only with the 9 blade 3748-1750kv outrunner, would the 12 blade 4068-1835kv inrunner be a drop in fit (which I doubt)? I put that in the 90mm F-16 and love it, while the stock F-16 comes with the 12 blade 3748-1650kv outrunner. I'm now even more confused than before, 9 blade/12 blade, inrunner/outrunner, etc. I would like to put an inrunner in the base grey F-18 (got hooked on them in the Avanti and now the F-16 and SU-30), but it's all Greek to me. I don't mind modifying/painting planes but I'm not about to mess with a power system and modifying that fit, so if it's not a drop in, I'll wait for the 3672-1900kv inrunner to be available. I fly off grass, so suspect a 12 blade would work better for me than a 9 blade as I can use the torque on take-off more than higher speed in flight.

Thanks, and yes, I do know you have better things to do that answer my inane questions. Keep safe.

[Quax]

Thanks for all your input.

The grass is really short - that is not the problem. It is a nice field as well, really flat. She jumps and ends up airborne BEFORE I even try to rotate. I checked elevator trim as well but that is fine as she flies nicely as soon as stabilized inflight so I do not expect a trim/setup issue here.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks for all your input.

The grass is really short - that is not the problem. It is a nice field as well, really flat. She jumps and ends up airborne BEFORE I even try to rotate. I checked elevator trim as well but that is fine as she flies nicely as soon as stabilized inflight so I do not expect a trim/setup issue here.

Quax,

Are you taking off with flaps? You might want to check the trim with take-off flaps. Since I fly off of short grass as well, I have my trim with take-off flaps set slightly nose down attitude for all the EDF's. That way, it's stays on the ground as long as possible, then I give it barely a tick of up elevator after a long run down the field and it stays fairly flat as it just breaks off the surface, and then let it climb very slowly while maintaining as much ground effect as possible (at least before I end up in the deep Everglades). On asphalt, I can yank them all up much quicker and climb at 3 times the rate. Granted, I've yet to maiden my stock F-18, so all the afore mentioned might be a crock of , but the F-4 has the exact same outrunner and is about 7 ounces heavier and they both take off nicely, but I have to keep the take off very scale, slow assent, with no high alpha lift offs.

[xviper]

Wow, that's surprising, thanks for the heads up XV. The stock F-18 is about 7 ounces lighter than the stock F-4's and both have the exact same EDF. Both my F4's get off our grass field just fine, so I was assuming the F-18 would also, but haven't tried it yet. I'll have to have my fingers crossed if I ever get out there again for the maiden. Our grass is cut twice a week (but grows like crazy here in Florida) and is moderately short, so maybe that will help. I can say without flaps, my F-16 had a hell of a time getting off, but the SU-30 (with flaps) did just fine. So only time will tell.

Thanks again for the warning, I'll be sure to cut it down before the end of the runway if it hasn't gotten airborne.

If you look at the retracts (down), as you put the plane on the ground, you'll see that the articulated struts compress (or "fold") all the way to their furthest position. This was commented upon when the plane first came out. There really is no compression damping, just decompression (un)damping. Our grass (prairie field grass), after mowing is 3" (at the shortest) and bumpy. The fully compressed struts are dragging themselves along the upper strut, while the bottom (folded) strut is trailing behind.
By contrast, my FW F-18 has a similar strut design but the springs are much stronger and the struts don't fold hardly at all when the plane is sitting on the ground. There's less strut to drag thru the grass while the tires are more forward, allowing them to roll down much of the grass before the struts get there. This, in conjunction with thrust vectoring, makes it much easier to get off the grass in a shorter distance. Same for my FlexJet - similar strut mechanism and it too, does not compress the strut much when planted on the ground.
When you're about to maiden this plane, imagine the "point of no return" on the runway. If the plane does not appear to have sufficient airspeed to actually fly, know where the abort point is so you can shut it down before hitting the end of the runway. Don't know about your field, but at the ends of mine, there is 2 to 3 foot tall weeds and grass and gopher mounds. They eat up planes.

PS. Keep in mind that I'm at 3500' elevation.

[DCORSAIR]

Alpha,

Quick question, and bear in mind I know very little about EDF's; I usually stick with the stock motors and just fly them, wouldn't really know the difference anyway. Since the upgraded 9 blade 3672-1900kv inrunner that is now coming with the F-18 Blue Angel may not be available for some time and the 90mm base gray F-18, which currently only comes only with the 9 blade 3748-1750kv outrunner, would the 12 blade 4068-1835kv inrunner be a drop in fit (which I doubt)? I put that in the 90mm F-16 and love it, while the stock F-16 comes with the 12 blade 3748-1650kv outrunner. I'm now even more confused than before, 9 blade/12 blade, inrunner/outrunner, etc. I would like to put an inrunner in the base grey F-18 (got hooked on them in the Avanti and now the F-16 and SU-30), but it's all Greek to me. I don't mind modifying/painting planes but I'm not about to mess with a power system and modifying that fit, so if it's not a drop in, I'll wait for the 3672-1900kv inrunner to be available. I fly off grass, so suspect a 12 blade would work better for me than a 9 blade as I can use the torque on take-off more than higher speed in flight.

Thanks, and yes, I do know you have better things to do that answer my inane questions. Keep safe.

Yes, it is a drop in fit for the 4068-1835kv, I put that in my BA F-18 and my base gray F-18, the only thing I do remember doing was to remove a little foam right behind the ESC to slide the ESC back just a little, it keeps a little slack in the motor wires connecting to the ESC . That fan and motor went in all my 90mm EDF jets, love the sound and performance.

[Elbee]

Hey Hornet Howners, Just dinking with modding the NG Doors and got tired of looking at the 'white-foam' interior bay, so added 3 little panels. I know that those won't really be seen, but the foam was getting to me . Anywho, going for operational NG doors. Four if you count the drag brace door. Printed a couple test panels that will replace the OEM gear doors in the aft of the bay to form the bottom of the fuselage. Adding a bulkhead and a modded steering arm. Working on hinge geometry for the Strut Door. More when available. Best LB

[Aros]

King among men LB...

[T-CAT]

That looks awesome Elbee .

[Elbee]

Thanks, T-CAT, much appreciated, Sir. LB

[Elbee]

Aros, Ahhhh, but should you call him king? In the words of W^m Shakespeare, "But what [we all] do know; And all too soon, I fear, the King shall rue." I believe this to mean, if I don't finish the project I've begun, regret and disappointment are the outcomes. She whose authority exceeds my rank has repeatedly pointed out to me the futility of presuming I am king of anything other than the lawnmower. So how could I be king? Let's just say I'm more of an inspired hobbyist who loves the challenge, the airframe, and the work. Regally yours, LB

ps: I did fit the prototype 'Fuselage Skin' and it fits (go figure), though I had to adjust the "Drag Brace Door". Printing that now.

[Aros]

Elbee King of the lawnmower...

[Brinka]

Hand painted cockpit, did my best to add all details to scale locations including ejection handles, throttle, and HUD display, Seat belts, switches dials etc. I don't have a 3D printer so this is a great poor man's work around. I used zip tie for seat belts, and left ejection handle, also used 2 servo horns to hold up HUD display, with a cut piece of clear plastic, solder wire for seat ejection, used all small parts and pieces to add more of a scale look. I think it looks good, spent a lot of time trying to get it right. I stopped myself when I tried to add rear view mirrors, lol smh.

[Elbee]

Brinka, I think it looks great. Nice work and Bravo Zulu, Sir. Best, LB

[Hugh Wiedman]

Outstanding Brinka, who said you needed a 3D printer! You've got ingenuity!

[killickb]

Good old fashioned modeling --- makes you feel good when it works doesn't it.

[T-CAT]

Hand painted cockpit, did my best to add all details to scale locations including ejection handles, throttle, and HUD display, Seat belts, switches dials etc. I don't have a 3D printer so this is a great poor man's work around. I used zip tie for seat belts, and left ejection handle, also used 2 servo horns to hold up HUD display, with a cut piece of clear plastic, solder wire for seat ejection, used all small parts and pieces to add more of a scale look. I think it looks good, spent a lot of time trying to get it right. I stopped myself when I tried to add rear view mirrors, lol smh.

That's very cool and adds some great detail to it.

[Brinka]

Thanks guys, it was a bit tedius but we have plenty of time to work on stuff. Here's a video I posted from Florida jets, 3 weeks ago, it's poor phone recording as the guy that filmed didn't zoom in on my afterburners or cool close ups. The video shows how caotic it is flying there, with 5 or 6 Jets up at once. Nevertheless a wonderful experience and the last time we were allowed to fly in Florida. Been grounded for so long I have to retrain myself!

[Brinka]

Here's some cool photos from Florida Jets in Lakeland 3 weeks ago.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks guys, it was a bit tedius but we have plenty of time to work on stuff. Here's a video I posted from Florida jets, 3 weeks ago, it's poor phone recording as the guy that filmed didn't zoom in on my afterburners or cool close ups. The video shows how caotic it is flying there, with 5 or 6 Jets up at once. Nevertheless a wonderful experience and the last time we were allowed to fly in Florida. Been grounded for so long I have to retrain myself!

WOW, what a great video. Ahhh, the good old days! Just having ohohohoh..gasms just watching it. Your take-offs, landings, rolls, inverted flight, high alpha, etc. we just as great as what I remember. You really held your own with all the other "big boys" turbines. It took real guts and confidence in your pilot abilities to get up in the air with that frenzy of jets. Could just imagine the air boss saying "negative on the flyby ghost rider, the pattern is full". I would have my pants with all that action, unless of course if I was flying someone else's jet. Forgot what a superb EDF pilot you were, it's been so long since we flew together.

When this is over I've got to get you to maiden my F-18. Finally finished the cockpit (after 3 weeks working on it, pictures tomorrow) and the jet itself is finally (after 2 months of procrastinating) on it's way for maybe another 3 weeks of repaint to the Canadian Demo. But what else do I have to do when not watching the daily virus briefings.

[Brinka]

Huge humble thank you Hugh Wiedman I appreciate you always, as for your Hornet maiden, I would love to, all your planes are outstanding, you always tend to add the "Hugh magic touch" when all of this is over I would love to take a trip to your field and have a blast. I love that Canadian Hornet scheme, can't wait to see it soon! Although thie vid was poor you can kind of tell how crazy and risky it is to fly there, but I always had that goal on my bucket list, very happy to achieve.