Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[janmb]

TV nozzles will be good because they will add some redundancy for if the elevators fail.. You just have to leave them on 100% of the time!

No reason ever to not leave them on 100% anyway.

Be careful viewing VT as redundant pitch control though. That is only true at fairly low speed. At high speeds they do next to nothing, even at wot.

[xviper]

No reason ever to not leave them on 100% anyway.

Be careful viewing VT as redundant pitch control though. That is only true at fairly low speed. At high speeds they do next to nothing, even at wot.

NOT entirely true. "Next to nothing" is still NOT nothing. Tell us that you've never given full rudder VT at high speed on any plane that has VT. It'll yaw like a MOFO. If you've done it, you'd know it. Elevator VT may not be as dramatic, but it still will produce definitive pitch affect and in a situation like this MiG, where in a high speed dive and the elevators fail, those VT nozzles on full, high rates, may (and most likely) give enough vectored thrust in "UP pitch" (at full throttle) to prevent the plane from taking a dirt nap. I've done it and have seen it in my Eurofighter, both my SebArt MiG 29's, my F/A-18E V.1 and V.2. And I'll bet those who have the VT on the little F-16 and F-35 will know about this as well.
No reason ever to leave them ON? No reason to leave them OFF, either. That's the way I've set up all my VT jets and that's the way I'll set up this MiG when the nozzles get here. You guys spend all your time strengthening this, reinforcing that, trying to figure out why this thing looses elevator authority at critical and non-critical moments, working your slide rules and equations to death, yet you'll deny the value and contribution these VT nozzles could and likely will make for this plane in the "sudden death" by dead stick syndrome.

[janmb]

yet you'll deny the value and contribution these VT nozzles could and likely will make for this plane in the "sudden death" by dead stick syndrome.

Not denying anything. I love VT, look forward to getting it on my MiG as well - for tons of various reasons. I just advocate a bit of caution when it comes to viewing it as a remedy for ineffective elevator surfaces - because in a lot of cases that may not be as much the case as many might think.

The relative thrust with an EDF model going at high speed at WOT is really low - and therefore, so is the authority from VT. Better than nothing? Absolutely. A substitute for fixing the actual elevators? Far from it.

[kallend]

You guys spend all your time . . . ., working your slide rules and equations to death, yet you'll deny the value and contribution these VT nozzles could and likely will make for this plane in the "sudden death" by dead stick syndrome.

I don't think comments like that are called for or remotely helpful.

And who, exactly, has denied the value of vectored thrust?

[xviper]

Not denying anything. I love VT, look forward to getting it on my MiG as well - for tons of various reasons. I just advocate a bit of caution when it comes to viewing it as a remedy for ineffective elevator surfaces - because in a lot of cases that may not be as much the case as many might think.

The relative thrust with an EDF model going at high speed at WOT is really low - and therefore, so is the authority from VT. Better than nothing? Absolutely. A substitute for fixing the actual elevators? Far from it.

Nobody said it was a SUBSTITUTE for actual elevators. Please don't read that into anyone's post. Relative thrust at high speed may be low at WOT, BUT the speed of the thrust coming out a nozzle that is pointed non-parallel to the prevailing airspeed is vastly different. In parallel, thrust may be close to the air rushing by, but put that thrust at say, 40 to 45 degrees, where the speed of that air in that direction is zero, you have zero PLUS that thrust. Go ahead, work that into your slide rule. Or even better, take one of your other planes with VT (you do have one, don't you?) and try it. Do a high speed run with the VT turned OFF, pull UP, then do another identical run with the VT turned ON. Any difference? I won't go into what you'll find. You'll have to see for yourself.
Someone here even talked about a "parachute" for this plane. I look at VT for this plane is like another sort of parachute. I also never said it was "remedy" for an ineffective elevator. You read that into it, too. However, it may mean the difference between a dirt dive and a "return to fly another day".

[AirHead]

Why bother with a parachute. Install an Aerostar Reversing ESC and set it up on a 2 position switch and dial down the reverse feature and create a bit of "reverse thrust" which you can blip from the throttle stick. Aerostar even mentions it as a form of reducing the landing speed and rollout speed on the ground. It might seem a bit "heinous" to blast air through the plane and out of cheater hole or inlet. Haven't tried it, but everything is possible...Just don't take my word for it...BTW "XViper" :...Sorry to hear about the nasty snow storm that hit your part of the country. Don't worry; It's coming my way!....lol

[RCjetdude]

Why bother with a parachute. Install an Aerostar Reversing ESC and set it up on a 2 position switch and dial down the reverse feature and create a bit of "reverse thrust" which you can blip from the throttle stick. Aerostar even mentions it as a form of reducing the landing speed and rollout speed on the ground. It might seem a bit "heinous" to blast air through the plane and out of cheater hole or inlet. Haven't tried it, but everything is possible...Just don't take my word for it...BTW "XViper" :...Sorry to hear about the nasty snow storm that hit your part of the country. Don't worry; It's coming my way!....lol

Because a parachute is soo much cooler!

[fredmdbud]

Because a parachute is soo much cooler!

And scale

[xviper]

Why bother with a parachute. Install an Aerostar Reversing ESC and set it up on a 2 position switch and dial down the reverse feature and create a bit of "reverse thrust" which you can blip from the throttle stick. Aerostar even mentions it as a form of reducing the landing speed and rollout speed on the ground. It might seem a bit "heinous" to blast air through the plane and out of cheater hole or inlet. Haven't tried it, but everything is possible...Just don't take my word for it...BTW "XViper" :...Sorry to hear about the nasty snow storm that hit your part of the country. Don't worry; It's coming my way!....lol

That would be something to see. When stuff comes loose, instead of it blasting out the butt hole, it'll be like a "snough" - sneeze/cough, but a lot safer than covid-19.
Removed snow TWICE today. I could do it again tonite, but I think I'll leave it till the morning. It's gonna snow all night. I hear you guys (TO) had low 20's temps yesterday.

[RedAlert]

I hear you guys (TO) had low 20's temps yesterday.

we did! :)
that’s how I got to maiden my Mig on Monday. It was a gorgeous day here in Toronto

[Hugh Wiedman]

That would be something to see. When stuff comes loose, instead of it blasting out the butt hole, it'll be like a "snough" - sneeze/cough, but a lot safer than covid-19.
Removed snow TWICE today. I could do it again tonite, but I think I'll leave it till the morning. It's gonna snow all night. I hear you guys (TO) had low 20's temps yesterday.

Better then what we had here for the last 5 days, 50 mph winds (80 Kph for you Canucks) and 2 feet of rain! Although if this would have been snow I guess it would have ended up being around 50 feet deep, just about right to keep the Mig from total destruction in a dive, soft landings for sure, no parachute needed.

[xviper]

Better then what we had here for the last 5 days, 50 mph winds (80 Kph for you Canucks) and 2 feet of rain! Although if this would have been snow I guess it would have ended up being around 50 feet deep, just about right to keep the Mig from total destruction in a dive, soft landings for sure, no parachute needed.

Isn’t that almost like a baby hurricane? If a MiG went max throttle into a 50’ snow pile, you’d never find it, unless there was a barn under it.
Talking about crappy weather is a lot nicer than talking about another MiG crash.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Isn’t that almost like a baby hurricane? If a MiG went max throttle into a 50’ snow pile, you’d never find it, unless there was a barn under it.
Talking about crappy weather is a lot nicer than talking about another MiG crash.

Amen brother. All I can say is that crappy weather keeps me away from crashing for a while! All my planes are quite happy when the weather sucks, they've been having a party for weeks now.

[bandetx]

Why bother with a parachute. Install an Aerostar Reversing ESC and set it up on a 2 position switch and dial down the reverse feature and create a bit of "reverse thrust" which you can blip from the throttle stick. Aerostar even mentions it as a form of reducing the landing speed and rollout speed on the ground. It might seem a bit "heinous" to blast air through the plane and out of cheater hole or inlet. Haven't tried it, but everything is possible...Just don't take my word for it...BTW "XViper" :...Sorry to hear about the nasty snow storm that hit your part of the country. Don't worry; It's coming my way!....lol

I did that on my Futura. It slowed down nicely and never caused any problems. I did have to limit the throttle curve to like 60% and add in a delay of like 5s to prevent the esc from over-amping and shutting down. It could move backwards from a standstill on the ground.

[hmarmaizmd717]

By your opinion, which would be the better way to balance this jet? With front and back battery or mid and back battery.
Just looking for recommendations. Thanks
hmarmaizmd717

[xviper]

By your opinion, which would be the better way to balance this jet? With front and back battery or mid and back battery.
Just looking for recommendations. Thanks
hmarmaizmd717

Unless you are using VERY tiny batteries, DO NOT put one in the front tray. A "recommended" sized battery was never meant for that location. They should have never put a battery tray there. If you do, you'll be very hard pressed to balance this plane. Some people even think that's why the first few crashes (in SE Asia) occurred.

[hmarmaizmd717]

Hi, Viper. I use 6000 batteries.

[AirHead]

I did that on my Futura. It slowed down nicely and never caused any problems. I did have to limit the throttle curve to like 60% and add in a delay of like 5s to prevent the esc from over-amping and shutting down. It could move backwards from a standstill on the ground.

Well, that's nice to hear. I thought about how it would work in the air, but my reason was for the long rollout after touch down because adding brakes adds weight, electronics, extra wiring, proper fitment, extra cash and hopefully not a point of failure. I don't know of any models that come with brakes. The ESC is an easy way to create a brief reverse thruster. It might become a worthy practice...

[RCjetdude]

Unless you are using VERY tiny batteries, DO NOT put one in the front tray. A "recommended" sized battery was never meant for that location. They should have never put a battery tray there. If you do, you'll be very hard pressed to balance this plane. Some people even think that's why the first few crashes (in SE Asia) occurred.

I have Lightburners on mine but I fly it all the time with an Admiral 5000 50C or Roaring Top 5000 70C in the front compartment. It balances fine and feels great in the air. I tried moving the CG back 10mm like so many seem to be doing and it felt terrible. One flight was all it took so I moved it back to factory CG. That is just my experience.

[xviper]

Hi, Viper. I use 6000 batteries.

Then, for sure, it won't balance if you put one of those in the front tray. The 6000 that I have weigh over 800g. That's quite heavy. I use 750g batteries in mine in the middle and rear tray and even then, it just balances 10mm aft of the marks. People have said that the CG at the marks is too nose heavy, but I've flown mine at that point and it's manageable. If you can't balance it with those batteries at least at the marks, you'd best try to relocate the blue box so the middle battery can sit there.