Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[xviper]

Heading out to the field tomorrow with a crazy friend of mine. He believes there is no reason why his first plane shouldn't be the maiden of his new FW 80mm A-10, with the stock landing gear. I couldn't talk him out of it, nor talk him into changing the landing gear. I am bringing my HK Walrus with clipped wings to try and convince him to give it a whirl prior to destroying his beautiful new model! He's got more expendable income than common sense.

If he's that inexperienced, I doubt any type of gear on the A-10 will save it. Either gear will bounce the plane if the landing is done badly.

[Aros]

Yep, some planes you can get away with a rough landing. This one will make you pay, especially stock gear.

[Topshot19]

check out my printable ladder for the a-10.https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3608014

[Phantom]

If he's that inexperienced, I doubt any type of gear on the A-10 will save it. Either gear will bounce the plane if the landing is done badly.

This is literally his first ever RC flight. He is a pilot from work, I can't convince him that there is a wee bit of a difference when you're flying from outside the bird lol. I wanted him to upgrade his landing gear because he wants me to do the landing! We fly off of a very rough abandoned parking lot, with a 30 foot set of wires on final, and only about 350 feet of runway. If I could make a shallow approach while keeping the speed up, the stock gear even with the crappie runway would be no problem. But you have to make a very steep power off approach for this runway due to those wires, and your rotation and flare must be timed PERFECT, in order to not bronco or even worse run out of runway. It's a sheer 30 to 60 foot drop off on 3 sides, that's why we call it the aircraft carrier! Lol

[Phantom]

I'll do a quick walk around video, so that you can appreciate the field I fly from...

[xviper]

This is literally his first ever RC flight. He is a pilot from work, I can't convince him that there is a wee bit of a difference when you're flying from outside the bird lol. I wanted him to upgrade his landing gear because he wants me to do the landing! We fly off of a very rough abandoned parking lot, with a 30 foot set of wires on final, and only about 350 feet of runway. If I could make a shallow approach while keeping the speed up, the stock gear even with the crappie runway would be no problem. But you have to make a very steep power off approach for this runway due to those wires, and your rotation and flare must be timed PERFECT, in order to not bronco or even worse run out of runway. It's a sheer 30 to 60 foot drop off on 3 sides, that's why we call it the aircraft carrier! Lol

And he's going with the A-10 as his very first RC plane? I hope it doesn't end in misery. Get a video (if he'll let you). I've flown with airline pilots and military pilots who flew Tudor jets. The airline pilots - one flies Dash 8 (and a small Cessna) and the other flies Boeing 767. None of the them flew very well when they first started with RC planes.

[F22trainer]

This is literally his first ever RC flight. He is a pilot from work, I can't convince him that there is a wee bit of a difference when you're flying from outside the bird lol. I wanted him to upgrade his landing gear because he wants me to do the landing! We fly off of a very rough abandoned parking lot, with a 30 foot set of wires on final, and only about 350 feet of runway. If I could make a shallow approach while keeping the speed up, the stock gear even with the crappie runway would be no problem. But you have to make a very steep power off approach for this runway due to those wires, and your rotation and flare must be timed PERFECT, in order to not bronco or even worse run out of runway. It's a sheer 30 to 60 foot drop off on 3 sides, that's why we call it the aircraft carrier! Lol

I’ve known a few pilots that have learned things the hard way in a full size aircraft - in that respect it is not different flying models. Some just refuse to accept advice.

-those who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us that do.

[Aros]

This is literally his first ever RC flight. He is a pilot from work, I can't convince him that there is a wee bit of a difference when you're flying from outside the bird lol. I wanted him to upgrade his landing gear because he wants me to do the landing! We fly off of a very rough abandoned parking lot, with a 30 foot set of wires on final, and only about 350 feet of runway. If I could make a shallow approach while keeping the speed up, the stock gear even with the crappie runway would be no problem. But you have to make a very steep power off approach for this runway due to those wires, and your rotation and flare must be timed PERFECT, in order to not bronco or even worse run out of runway. It's a sheer 30 to 60 foot drop off on 3 sides, that's why we call it the aircraft carrier! Lol

All I have to say is...



Flew mine tonight...Due to some circumstances beyond my control I had to land with a tail wind. Hardly ideal. Dropped flaps, pointed the nose straight ahead and chopped power. Managed the elevator and nose accordingly all the way to the ground to a near perfect landing. A HOT landing, but she came down light on her toes which is all I can ever ask for.

The moral of the story? Can you dead stick this bird to a safe landing? Yes. Is it advised? HELL NO! LOL

[F22trainer]

All I have to say is...



Flew mine tonight...Due to some circumstances beyond my control I had to land with a tail wind. Hardly ideal. Dropped flaps, pointed the nose straight ahead and chopped power. Managed the elevator and nose accordingly all the way to the ground to a near perfect landing. A HOT landing, but she came down light on her toes which is all I can ever ask for.

The moral of the story? Can you dead stick this bird to a safe landing? Yes. Is it advised? HELL NO! LOL

Funny, watched one of those at the field today - wind shifted, he did the go around when he was 3/4 down our 600 ft runway. Battery pooped the bed on base and he hadn’t connected the dots that the reason he went long was he had a tailwind going in the direction he took off. One of them NASCAR pilots that can only fly a left pattern. Anyway, it was a happy ending. He did set it down nice and rolled off the end into the dirt, but all ok.
:Confused:

[Phantom]

Good news, he didn't fly his A-10. I convinced him to take up my HK Walrus, with the clipped wings. After a graceful toss and climb out, he decided to turn to the downwind. Which resulted in a nose dive into concrete for my Walrus.

[Phantom]

Anyway he graciously asked my 7 year daughter to borrow her HK BIX3 and we got to work, "learning him some RC flying skills!"

This link is the a short video of my flying field the "Aircraft Carrier";

https://youtu.be/brvpm5veZ14

[xviper]

I've never flown a Walrus, but I've been told that it's one of the more benign planes to fly for the inexperienced. I can only imagine what would have happened if it were the A-10. When turning downwind, especially if the there is a significant wind at the time, the plane's airspeed drops and during the turn, throttle must be applied to keep the airspeed the same once the plane is going with the wind. As a "real" pilot, this should have been instinctive. Even with little to no wind, a banked turn should be accompanied by an increase in throttle till the plane is flying straight again.

[Phantom]

I've never flown a Walrus, but I've been told that it's one of the more benign planes to fly for the inexperienced. I can only imagine what would have happened if it were the A-10. When turning downwind, especially if the there is a significant wind at the time, the plane's airspeed drops and during the turn, throttle must be applied to keep the airspeed the same once the plane is going with the wind. As a "real" pilot, this should have been instinctive. Even with little to no wind, a banked turn should be accompanied by an increase in throttle till the plane is flying straight again.

I'm an instructor pilot in my day job, it's not that he doesn't know what to do, it's the fact that he has no instrumentation to fall back on. I see it all the time when evaluating upper air work. These guys are taught, "flying by the numbers," in flight school. So while performing, say steep turns, they are staring inside the cockpit at their instruments, which causes them to bust the standards of the maneuver, because by the time they see the altitude, bank angle, or airspeed deviation on their instruments it's too late to correct. They spend the whole careers rotating after takeoff and once the gear and flaps are sucked up, engaging the auto pilot. They spend the rest of the flight as "cockpit managers" where in they receive all the flight information by staring at gauges and screens, they don't touch the controls until they are on short final, following an auto pilot instrument approach.

God forbid it be a completely VFR day, and you suggest that they should kick off the auto pilot, fly direct to the field, enter the pattern, give ATC a break and land, in clear blue 22! So the fact that he had more that 2000 flight hours, doesn't really do him any good when all pertinent info on what the airplane requires for controlled flight happens to be OUTSIDE the cockpit. But he learned his lesson, albeit at the expense of my Walrus, which is an incredibly well behaved bird. My 7 year old promptly granted him permission to take up her pride and joy, her Bix3, but only if my friend's radio was electronically tethered to mine, he graciously accepted her terms. The day ended with his first successful take of and many approaches and go arounds. Next time hopefully landings will be in order lol.

[Aros]

Phantom that is so true...I have had a captain with 30 years on a 747 tell me how difficult it is to fly a model airplane. To your point, it's completely a different thing. Ego is never a good thing in this hobby. Like anything else, learn the fundamentals before thinking you can fly a model simply because you have been a full scale pilot. Pretty sure a 1:1 doesn't have a throttle/rudder stick on the left and elev/ail stick on the right.

[flyAA]

I thought the “downwind turn” was a myth that had been debunked a long time ago.

[xviper]

I thought the “downwind turn” was a myth that had been debunked a long time ago.

I would like to hear it debunked again.
Not withstanding living proof that turning with the wind (banked turn) and NOT increasing throttle, logically, there is an instant when the airspeed could approach stall speed. Let's say the wind was 15 mph and you are flying into it. Let's say your airspeed is around 30 mph, meaning that your ground speed is 15 mph. If you did nothing but bank the plane (model) to quickly come about 180 degrees to go with the wind (and many new pilots do this very quickly via "bank and yank"), you could find the plane suddenly travelling with the wind with insufficient time to get back up to its original airspeed of 30 mph, but rather, being carried by the 15 mph wind, making for a brief moment, the plane travel at an airspeed of 15 mph. Now, the question then becomes, is 15 mph airspeed enough for that plane to actually fly? Or would it stall? Of course, the plane could maintain airspeed during a turn if it did a flat turn (wings level, using rudder only) or did a very large, gradual, shallow banked turn. How many of us have, in our early flying days, done just what I just described? I have. More than once. The plane stalls mid-turn, drops the inside wing even more and spirals into the ground.

[flyAA]

I would like to hear it debunked again.
Not withstanding living proof that turning with the wind (banked turn) and NOT increasing throttle, logically, there is an instant when the airspeed could approach stall speed. Let's say the wind was 15 mph and you are flying into it. Let's say your airspeed is around 30 mph, meaning that your ground speed is 15 mph. If you did nothing but bank the plane (model) to quickly come about 180 degrees to go with the wind (and many new pilots do this very quickly via "bank and yank"), you could find the plane suddenly travelling with the wind with insufficient time to get back up to its original airspeed of 30 mph, but rather, being carried by the 15 mph wind, making for a brief moment, the plane travel at an airspeed of 15 mph. Now, the question then becomes, is 15 mph airspeed enough for that plane to actually fly? Or would it stall? Of course, the plane could maintain airspeed during a turn if it did a flat turn (wings level, using rudder only) or did a very large, gradual, shallow banked turn. How many of us have, in our early flying days, done just what I just described? I have. More than once. The plane stalls mid-turn, drops the inside wing even more and spirals into the ground.

Go to any professional pilot forum and bring up the “downwind turn” and you better have your popcorn ready lol. It is an old wives tale.

Groundspeed does not equal airspeed. Your plane stalled bc it exceeded the critical angle of attack.

[DCORSAIR]

Go to any professional pilot forum and bring up the “downwind turn” and you better have your popcorn ready lol. It is an old wives tale.

Groundspeed does not equal airspeed. Your plane stalled bc it exceeded the critical angle of attack.

I have to agree here, I do downwind landings all the time, I do the same pattern and flaps and approach, the only thing I prepare for is to touch down a little early because sometimes the wind will push you a little faster than you want on the flare and roll out, I have never lost one yet in my 35 yrs flying r/c...........:Whew:

[F22trainer]

I'm an instructor pilot in my day job, it's not that he doesn't know what to do, it's the fact that he has no instrumentation to fall back on. I see it all the time when evaluating upper air work. These guys are taught, "flying by the numbers," in flight school. So while performing, say steep turns, they are staring inside the cockpit at their instruments, which causes them to bust the standards of the maneuver, because by the time they see the altitude, bank angle, or airspeed deviation on their instruments it's too late to correct. They spend the whole careers rotating after takeoff and once the gear and flaps are sucked up, engaging the auto pilot. They spend the rest of the flight as "cockpit managers" where in they receive all the flight information by staring at gauges and screens, they don't touch the controls until they are on short final, following an auto pilot instrument approach.

God forbid it be a completely VFR day, and you suggest that they should kick off the auto pilot, fly direct to the field, enter the pattern, give ATC a break and land, in clear blue 22! So the fact that he had more that 2000 flight hours, doesn't really do him any good when all pertinent info on what the airplane requires for controlled flight happens to be OUTSIDE the cockpit. But he learned his lesson, albeit at the expense of my Walrus, which is an incredibly well behaved bird. My 7 year old promptly granted him permission to take up her pride and joy, her Bix3, but only if my friend's radio was electronically tethered to mine, he graciously accepted her terms. The day ended with his first successful take of and many approaches and go arounds. Next time hopefully landings will be in order lol.

Gosh, I would swear you have sitting in on my lectures, teaching non-professional Pilots how to use a Flight Director without the auto pilot, and transition to looking outside going VFR from IFR.:Cool:

[xviper]

Go to any professional pilot forum and bring up the “downwind turn” and you better have your popcorn ready lol. It is an old wives tale.

Groundspeed does not equal airspeed. Your plane stalled bc it exceeded the critical angle of attack.

We've already seen many times on this forum that "professional pilots" know Jack Schitt about flying RC planes. They crash more than the average beginner because their heads are filled with "real" plane characteristics. I'll save my popcorn, thanks.

PS. I know ground and airspeed aren't the same. I never said they were. I was only using ground speed to show what example I was trying to convey.