Roban - World Class Scale Helicopters

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Official FlightLine RC 1600mm P-38 Lightning Thread

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  • Originally posted by xviper2 View Post
    Correct about the integrated BECs. Don't be too concerned about your RX voltage. There are 2 internal BECs providing power to the RX on this plane. If one fails, the other "should" continue to power the RX. Unless you have a complete ESC failure on both ESCs on this plane, the RX will still draw sufficient power to do a "dead stick" landing even if there's not enough juice to power the motors. Internal BECs are nothing magical. They draw current from the main power coming in to the ESCs. Voltage drop at the RX will be the last thing you'll see happen if the main batteries get low. No point in watching it. Of course, you can always go for externally powered external BEC. One is all you need. These are usually powered by a 2 cell battery and is plugged into any unused channel on the RX or even into a "Y" with some servo.
    Also, don't concern yourself so much with flight battery voltage. I try to land while the main batteries are still near storage voltage of about 3.75v/cell. This involves some trial and error. Start on the safe side and set your timer for 5 minutes for this plane. When you land, immediately check the batteries. If you still have lots of juice left, add a minute to the next flight and continue to do this until such a time that your batteries come down at the desired voltage. If you fly particularly high throttle on a given flight, then mentally deduct some time off your flight and land before the timer goes off. You can set your ESCs at whatever low voltage cut-off you like but don't fly till that happens. You also dial in what kind of cut-off you'd like ---- soft or hard. SOFT will get you a rapid decline in motor response while HARD will just cause your motors to simply stop. You can generally get a few more seconds if you shut the throttle down and give the batteries a little time to come back, then try the throttle again for another short burst. If you are low to the ground at the time, this will be of no use.
    Now, if you're really worried about battery voltage while flying, you can utilize one of a couple of devices that will give you some warning. One type is the loud buzzer that you attach to the balance port of one battery. Get 2 if you want one on each. They cost about 3 to 5 bucks each.

    Hobbyking - the world's No1 Online Hobby Store. We stock a huge selection of RC products from Planes right through to Drones and all accessories. Visit Us Today.

    Another alternative is to get one or two of those remote pagers that vibrate when the battery gets to a set voltage. HobbyKing used to sell them but they were finicky at times so they don't carry them anymore and I stopped using them because always forgot to turn the pager on. I know of buddies who use both types of devices and they seem to like them fine. Personally, I just fly by time. I think most people fly by time.
    When I'm really concerned about RX power (on expensive planes), I go with something like this:
    This is the Scorpion Backup Guard. The Backup Guard is a small, lightweight stand by power system developed for radio controlled aircraft. The Backup... SCP-SC-BUG

    This does nothing till RX voltage is low or zero and it cuts in automatically so you can dead stick it. Peace of mind and cheap. Just remember to turn it on so it can monitor things.
    Thanks, xv. You've been very informative! I think with my 2-3300mah, 30-40c, 4s packs, I'll start with 5 minutes run time, as you suggest, maybe even 4 minutes just to get a handle on remaining voltage after landing and go from there by checking the remaining voltage. Interesting web links, too.
    Bob Duncan

    The only real helicopter is the CH-47 Chinook. The rest are just sling loads!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BadBob View Post

      Thanks, xv. You've been very informative! I think with my 2-3300mah, 30-40c, 4s packs, I'll start with 5 minutes run time, as you suggest, maybe even 4 minutes just to get a handle on remaining voltage after landing and go from there by checking the remaining voltage. Interesting web links, too.
      Good place to start. I fly with 3000mah and 3600mah batteries and the difference in flight times between the two is about 1.5 minutes. I can go about 6 minutes with the bigger batteries but I tend to fly with heavy throttle. If I flew it completely "scale", I could probably squeeze 8 to 10 minutes, but that's no fun. :angel:

      Comment


      • Originally posted by xviper2 View Post
        Good place to start. I fly with 3000mah and 3600mah batteries and the difference in flight times between the two is about 1.5 minutes. I can go about 6 minutes with the bigger batteries but I tend to fly with heavy throttle. If I flew it completely "scale", I could probably squeeze 8 to 10 minutes, but that's no fun. :angel:
        Ha, Ha! I just intend to fly circles for a while with touch and goes, just to get a feel for the landing with flaps 1/2 and full. I've got the plane on my RF 7.1 Sim and will be working that to death for the "amusing" stuff. Thanks again for your enlightenment.
        Bob Duncan

        The only real helicopter is the CH-47 Chinook. The rest are just sling loads!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BadBob View Post

          Ha, Ha! I just intend to fly circles for a while with touch and goes, just to get a feel for the landing with flaps 1/2 and full. I've got the plane on my RF 7.1 Sim and will be working that to death for the "amusing" stuff. Thanks again for your enlightenment.
          Are you flying off grass or prepared, smooth runway? Be ready for one or more of the retracts to get stuck in the up position. A good hard ground run on a bumpy surface "could" bend the strut back just enough to cause it to get stuck before the end point travel (or a hard landing). Test deployment and retraction a couple of times before each flight and accept the possibility that you may have to UNbend the strut just a little. If it's stuck, push down on the retracted strut as you attempt to deploy. This will push the mechanism far enough to see the end point. Once it's deployed, hold the base of the retract very firmly as you grab the tire and bend the whole strut forward. It only needs a little bit. This will prevent it from getting stuck at the most inopportune moment - as in when coming in for a landing. Worst comes to worse, ensure the tank mounts are glued on solid, use the tanks and belly land on those tanks with all retracts in the UP position. This will same a lot of damage compared to trying to land with one retract stuck and the other two down.
          Here's a vid I made explaining this issue and what to do about it.
           

          Comment


          • Originally posted by xviper2 View Post
            Are you flying off grass or prepared, smooth runway? Be ready for one or more of the retracts to get stuck in the up position. A good hard ground run on a bumpy surface "could" bend the strut back just enough to cause it to get stuck before the end point travel (or a hard landing). Test deployment and retraction a couple of times before each flight and accept the possibility that you may have to UNbend the strut just a little. If it's stuck, push down on the retracted strut as you attempt to deploy. This will push the mechanism far enough to see the end point. Once it's deployed, hold the base of the retract very firmly as you grab the tire and bend the whole strut forward. It only needs a little bit. This will prevent it from getting stuck at the most inopportune moment - as in when coming in for a landing. Worst comes to worse, ensure the tank mounts are glued on solid, use the tanks and belly land on those tanks with all retracts in the UP position. This will same a lot of damage compared to trying to land with one retract stuck and the other two down.
            Here's a vid I made explaining this issue and what to do about it.
            I'll mainly be flying off of smooth, artificially prepared runway or asphalt. We have a lot of housing construction going on around my area and so far, only the streets have been put in. I see you're using the stock retracts. I would hope the castle ones are an improvement as far as bending the gear struts is concerned. I also switched to Dubro, low bounce tires. Hope that makes an improvement. I'll be flying the R/F simulator version of this plane to death until I master the landings on this plane. There's a flying field on there that's pretty close to our clubs.
            Bob Duncan

            The only real helicopter is the CH-47 Chinook. The rest are just sling loads!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BadBob View Post

              I'll mainly be flying off of smooth, artificially prepared runway or asphalt. We have a lot of housing construction going on around my area and so far, only the streets have been put in. I see you're using the stock retracts. I would hope the castle ones are an improvement as far as bending the gear struts is concerned. I also switched to Dubro, low bounce tires. Hope that makes an improvement. I'll be flying the R/F simulator version of this plane to death until I master the landings on this plane. There's a flying field on there that's pretty close to our clubs.
              Since that video was made, I've put in the RC Castle struts and the tires off the FMS 1450mm P-51. It all works quite well, except that the struts can't be secured well enough to prevent them from turning in the trunion. I've since re-Loctited the trunion hex screws in addition to using FoamTac where the struts go into the trunions. It's horrible to see a tire skewed to one side (cock-eyed) when taxi-ing back to the pits. Needed to gouge out more foam in the wheel compartment so they don't jam up as much.

              Comment


              • When i got home from flying this morning. Checked mail, and the P-38 Landing Gear Wheel and Strut package i ordered Wed. was there. I have a big smile on my face. Comparing them to the RC Castle struts I've been flying with. These FlightlineRC P-38 Struts are heavier and better built for sure! The shock absorbing action of these are for sure better engineered/designed for the FlightlineRC P-38. Going to swap out the Castle struts with these tonight. Weather forecast doesn't look good for the rest of the weekend to test them out.
                Lon

                EFlite F-16 80mm, EFite DRACO, EFlite Night Radian, E-Flite P51 1.5m
                Freewing A-10 80mm, F-86 80mm, F-15 90mm, Avanti. FMS DHC-2 Beaver, Fliteline P-38L ,HSD HME-262, HSD F86.

                Comment


                • I just discovered something I didn't notice before with the nose gear. I was putting on the new Dubro low bounce tire and see that my nose gear assy. has more than an acceptable amount of slop. I took it out again and checked the set screws, hoping I missed the flat spot, but no, that isn't the cause as the whole assembly has this play in it as you can see in the video. I'm going to have to disassemble the whole unit again and see what's causing this. Video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af_M...ature=youtu.be
                  Bob Duncan

                  The only real helicopter is the CH-47 Chinook. The rest are just sling loads!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by BadBob View Post
                    I just discovered something I didn't notice before with the nose gear. I was putting on the new Dubro low bounce tire and see that my nose gear assy. has more than an acceptable amount of slop. I took it out again and checked the set screws, hoping I missed the flat spot, but no, that isn't the cause as the whole assembly has this play in it as you can see in the video. I'm going to have to disassemble the whole unit again and see what's causing this. Video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af_M...ature=youtu.be
                    Video is "private". Can't see it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by xviper2 View Post
                      Video is "private". Can't see it.
                      I changed the privacy settings, so try now.
                      Bob Duncan

                      The only real helicopter is the CH-47 Chinook. The rest are just sling loads!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BadBob View Post

                        I changed the privacy settings, so try now.
                        It seems that all 3 of them have this slop, the left main, not as bad. I'm going to take them all apart and see what can be the problem. Can't land it like this more than once. Does anybody else have this issue?
                        Bob Duncan

                        The only real helicopter is the CH-47 Chinook. The rest are just sling loads!

                        Comment


                        • Just watched it. It seems the slop is where the strut attaches to the pin that goes into the retract trunion and not the trunion itself that is sloppy against the screw puck that pushes/pulls it. Mine has that kind of slop. All of my planes' retracts have a similar kind of slop, some more, some less. All you can do is the undo the screws and pull off the whole strut. Make sure the flat spot is centered over one of the hex screws. The hex screw on the other side just snug over the round but if you really want to stiffen it up, grind a flat spot on that side, too. Some people will use Loctite on the hex threads. I've found that Loctite doesn't always hold for long. Whenever I have to tighten them up a second time, I goop the hex screw threads AND the end that goes into the hole with FoamTac and leave it set of at least a day. My last "fix", which has not yet been flown again, I've gone as far as using FoamTac on the pin that goes into the trunion. I'm hoping this will be the last time I need to mess with them.
                          The trouble with the design of this particular strut is that whenever the tires hit the ground or rolling over bumps, the strut assemble gets forced in a twisting action and this will very quickly cause the hex screws to loosen. This type of strut really needs to have square pins going into square holes. Putting something round into a round hole and then grinding a flat so a screw can hold it from spinning is too simplistic.

                          PS, My front retract is even more sloppy than that. Not much you can do about it since that one has to be able to spin for the steering mechanism. You can still attempt to tighten the strut where it secures onto the pin.

                          Comment


                          • Here's some photos comparing the stock, RC Castle, and Flightline struts. My opinion with being able to have both upgrades in hand. Is that the FlightlineRC strut upgrade is the way to go. I'm thinking the spring tension with these Flightline struts is just right.
                            It should also be noted that the grub screws are the next size larger on the Flightline upgrade struts. Thinking this is a good thing.
                            Lon

                            EFlite F-16 80mm, EFite DRACO, EFlite Night Radian, E-Flite P51 1.5m
                            Freewing A-10 80mm, F-86 80mm, F-15 90mm, Avanti. FMS DHC-2 Beaver, Fliteline P-38L ,HSD HME-262, HSD F86.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Lon View Post
                              Here's some photos comparing the stock, RC Castle, and Flightline struts. My opinion with being able to have both upgrades in hand. Is that the FlightlineRC strut upgrade is the way to go. I'm thinking the spring tension with these Flightline struts is just right.
                              It should also be noted that the grub screws are the next size larger on the Flightline upgrade struts. Thinking this is a good thing.
                              Lon, have you experienced the slop issue that me and xviper have been discussing with the Castle struts on the Motion struts? Video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af_M...ature=youtu.be
                              Bob Duncan

                              The only real helicopter is the CH-47 Chinook. The rest are just sling loads!

                              Comment


                              • Many of my Freewing manufactured struts have some play (aka slop) in them, some much more than others and that's straight out of the box. On landings, I'm very easy on my planes, so it seems having unwanted movement is just in the nature of the struts. On my new FlightlineRC struts, there is slop in them new out of the box. It's not nearly as much on the mains, but the nose gear has a good amount.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by BadBob View Post

                                  Lon, have you experienced the slop issue that me and xviper have been discussing with the Castle struts on the Motion struts? Video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af_M...ature=youtu.be
                                  Yes I have. In fact I don't think I have a plane with retracts that eventually doesn't get some play in them.
                                  Lon

                                  EFlite F-16 80mm, EFite DRACO, EFlite Night Radian, E-Flite P51 1.5m
                                  Freewing A-10 80mm, F-86 80mm, F-15 90mm, Avanti. FMS DHC-2 Beaver, Fliteline P-38L ,HSD HME-262, HSD F86.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Lon View Post
                                    My opinion with being able to have both upgrades in hand. Is that the FlightlineRC strut upgrade is the way to go. I'm thinking the spring tension with these Flightline struts is just right.
                                    Thanks for the comparison and pictures Lon. I have the Castle struts but have not installed them yet, I wish the FLRC were in stock so I could buy them, I think that's the way I want to go.

                                    Comment


                                    • One of the main reasons I did the first P-38 strut conversion was to get rid of the weak wire that bends easily on grass runways, mounting the strut right against the trunnion makes for a much stronger gear.

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                                      Both of the aftermarket solutions still have the weak 4mm wire, other than the mains having the more scale straight legs I don't really understand why anyone would go with them rather than the FMS or Freewing struts.

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                                      I like the detail much better on the Freewing struts.

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                                      TiredIron Aviation
                                      Tired Iron Military Vehicles

                                      Comment


                                      • Very good points Tired Iron! As you may know. I have been flying the Freewing P-51 for several years now. Had the FW struts hanging on the spare parts peg board when I purchased the 38. Let's just say I didn't immediately jump at the chance to install them on the 38. I believe a big factor with me, is my flying/landing skills have improved. Thus not having to spend time tweeking struts alot like I did with the FW struts. Wanted to give a chance to the Castle and now Flightline struts. And yes. I have had less issues with the Castle struts than FW, but admittedly I'm more consistent in good smooth landings.
                                        Lon

                                        EFlite F-16 80mm, EFite DRACO, EFlite Night Radian, E-Flite P51 1.5m
                                        Freewing A-10 80mm, F-86 80mm, F-15 90mm, Avanti. FMS DHC-2 Beaver, Fliteline P-38L ,HSD HME-262, HSD F86.

                                        Comment


                                        • TiredIronGRB; can you point me to the posts where you talked about using the P-51 struts on the P-38? I remember reading about it and it seems like there might have been some challenges in getting them to fit.

                                          With 2340 posts in this thread and the search feature not able to search in a thread I was not able to find your posts.

                                          Any help would be much appreciated.

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