Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Ceramic insulation is something we discussed 10 years ago.... and you wont find it in large gauges but I doesn't matter when you have wrapped nothing!

TTYL I cant listen to that nonsense coming from the GSM right now.

:hear_no_evil:

[Clugh]

It pays when you actually work in the field. And also recycle and scrap!!

Transformers use CCA which is copper cladded aluminum which has a lower resistance than pure aluminum but higher than pure copper but it runs cooler so under heavy load it become beneficial as the motor will weigh less. Its is already proven in Aviaton e power. The speculation is so behind the curve of the actually already implemented technology. It amazes me how amateurs on forums some that have never even wound a motor attempt to rewrite the e motor technical books already published to the world.

Thats really a waste of the forums time. Listening to people that have never implemented and iota of the tuning techniques. They are not a motor tuner no one solicits them for winding their motors ever.

:rolling_eyes:

[Clugh]

Do You SEE? Some of these posters do not know what they are talking about.
Properties

The properties of copper-clad aluminium wire include:

• Less expensive than a pure copper wire
• Lighter than pure copper
• Higher electrical conductivity than pure aluminium
• Higher strength than aluminium
• Electrical connections typically more reliable than pure aluminium^{[citation needed]}

Disadvantages

• Easily sold as counterfeit copper wire to unaware clients
• Much more prone to mechanical fatigue failure than pure copper wire
• Gets much hotter than pure copper in case of severe overcurrent, such as short circuits

Skin effect



The skin effect forces alternating current to flow on the outer periphery of any wire; in this case, the outer copper cladding of the conductor which has lower resistance than the mostly unused aluminum interior. The better conductor on the outer path causes the wire's resistance at high frequencies, where the skin effect is greater, to approach that of a pure copper wire. This improved conductivity over bare aluminum makes the copper-clad aluminium wire a good fit for radio frequency use.

The skin effect is similarly exploited in copper-clad steel wire, such as the center conductors of many coaxial cables, which are commonly used for high frequency feedlines with high strength and conductivity requirements.

[Clugh]

Remote response from a man not on this site

• 42 minutes ago

• #668

Even at a delta T of about 300°C, a copper conductor has doubled its resistance.
I'd have to read up on aluminum.
This effect was the basis for the "self-protection" of the engines, which used to be wound with 300°C safe polyamide/polyimide 2-layer coating.
Due to the massive increase in internal resistance when heated too much, the current went down so far that nothing could happen anymore.
Disadvantage: the 1.06 wire was as thick as a normal 1.18 polyamide 2-layer wire because of the iso.
That's why they abandoned it, even if it is still written in the advertising texts today, that they would use the 300°C wire.

The high knotty bending radius reliably prevents single-tooth winding with the ceramic insulation.
I already had such a wire. Rolf Strecker had sent it to me. Even if everything was chic right after changing - the next morning at the latest you could see the cracks in the coating.
In theory, a lot of things sound great at first.

With aluminum, the additional winding space required for the same load capacity inflates all other parts of the engine against copper. And according to my calculations, this seems to more than compensate for the weight advantage of the alu. But I'm sure I miscalculated - as a hobbyist.
VG Ralph

[Clugh]

Es wäre nicht das erste Mal, wie all die Dinge, die Sie löschen mussten, als ich Sie korrigierte. Wie als Sie RC-Gruppen sagten, dass alle Drähte im Steckplatz den gleichen Strom führen. Erinnern Sie sich an diesen Unsinn, um zu versuchen, das Geräusch zu verbergen, das bifilare 4-Sektionsmotoren machen, die alle parallel verdrahtet sind.

Ich meine, die Hälfte der Zeit ist es kein Rechenfehler, sondern einfach eine dreiste Lüge. Wie wärmeleitende Verbindungen keine Wirkung haben, aber sie laufen kühler und effizienter als Ihre unvergossenen und endvergossenen Motoren mit genau der gleichen Anzahl von Windungen und Drähten.

Sagen Sie mir, wie hoch der Widerstand Ihrer Geschwindigkeitsmotoren ist, wenn die YGE-Fets von der Leiterplatte fallen.

Ich meine, das ist eine verdammt gute Referenz für jemanden, der hier nicht liest, und gerade davor sagte ich, ich liebe es, wenn Bastler versuchen, die technischen Handbücher neu zu schreiben. Da Sie immer noch von reinem Kupfer oder Aluminium sprechen, sind Sie offensichtlich nicht vertraut damit, was die Industrie tatsächlich verwendet. Das ist eine Tatsache für den Amateur.

Not being honest across the forums is an integral part of your reptilian DNA

YT
Hubert

[Clugh]

the remote responses will never contain the motor constants to your speed engines. Its a secret.... while the entire industry makes their available . How does a modeler put it in a calculator without that to find a prop...\


Hide them....scorpion post theirs so that's the difference.

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert,

Oh man, who wraps it by hand anymore? Laser sintering when it comes to high optimization of the windings in high-performance electric motors. This was already the case when we at MM etched the windings from silver-plated copper sheets and spot-welded these individual windings over a large area. Today, like the Frauenhofer Institute, it can be made with cast aluminum coils or laser sintered. No winding heads that protrude far and the winding heads are fanned out to optimize cooling. Insulation can be done using all kinds of methods, such as lacquers mixed with microceramic balls or, in the case of aluminum, using a thicker anodized layer. Since nothing has to be bent, these anodized layers do not tear. Aluminum has lower proximity losses. The eddy current losses in the open stator slots are also reduced by multi-layer individual layers of the respective conductor. But of course you can also use slot wedges made of Magnoval or thin silicon iron wires to divert the direct flow and reduce it.
The issue of slot filling factor is also not an issue with laser sintering coils as the sheet metal coils can easily reach 95-98% depending on the insulation and dielectric strength. This can otherwise only be achieved with the ISCAD method as developed by Molabo. All other advantages of hybrid wires in aluminum/copper are possible.
This was in my first post here in the forum.

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Hi Hubert,

Oh man, who wraps it by hand anymore? Laser sintering when it comes to high optimization of the windings in high-performance electric motors. This was already the case when we at MM etched the windings from silver-plated copper sheets and spot-welded these individual windings over a large area. Today, like the Frauenhofer Institute, it can be made with cast aluminum coils or laser sintered. No winding heads that protrude far and the winding heads are fanned out to optimize cooling. Insulation can be done using all kinds of methods, such as lacquers mixed with microceramic balls or, in the case of aluminum, using a thicker anodized layer. Since nothing has to be bent, these anodized layers do not tear. Aluminum has lower proximity losses. The eddy current losses in the open stator slots are also reduced by multi-layer individual layers of the respective conductor. But of course you can also use slot wedges made of Magnoval or thin silicon iron wires to divert the direct flow and reduce it.
The issue of slot filling factor is also not an issue with laser sintering coils as the sheet metal coils can easily reach 95-98% depending on the insulation and dielectric strength. This can otherwise only be achieved with the ISCAD method as developed by Molabo. All other advantages of hybrid wires in aluminum/copper are possible.
This was in my first post here in the forum.

Happy Amps Christian

Yes people truly in the fold of electrical rotating machines machine know that coils can even b 3d printed and have a very high filling factor. As far as the ISCAD that's another one that would fry any reptiles eggs.

Don't worry he will also see that in our size. I have already talk toe James Scheafer at ornamental metals in Columbus. Im saving all the old windings so he can do a lost wax casting of the cage after I print it in wax on the 3dprinter. The stator will be alpha iron. The cage pure copper.

It wont take 4 years Chris.....

:rolling_eyes:

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert,
yes i know and you will earn the result of the alpha iron stator.
It makes me wonder wy they are looking for the high temp because of the eloxal isulation . This not the reason ! First it is the very thin isulstionnof 3-4 my ( micromilimeter ) and the robust isolation that can withstand higher temp. , but we want run cooler. Lasersinter coil run cooler because of much better coolingdesign of the endside of the coils and higher heat capacity for short booster run. Yes i know , they have no booster esc , that‘s mad for them. I want not to build a airplanemotor anymoore . This is yours , if you want .
i have designed a new in-outrunner with my magnet flux compresion array and separate esc.

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Hi Hubert,
yes i know and you will earn the result of the alpha iron stator.
It makes me wonder wy they are looking for the high temp because of the eloxal isulation . This not the reason ! First it is the very thin isulstionnof 3-4 my ( micromilimeter ) and the robust isolation that can withstand higher temp. , but we want run cooler. Lasersinter coil run cooler because of much better coolingdesign of the endside of the coils and higher heat capacity for short booster run. Yes i know , they have no booster esc , that‘s mad for them. I want not to build a airplanemotor anymoore . This is yours , if you want .
i have designed a new in-outrunner with my magnet flux compresion array and separate esc.

Happy Amps Christian

What is the efficiency of this 5040/5050 bifilar knocker anyway. The troupe wont post it because he does not want us to see the idle current. I already know it is high compared to its dc resistance.

[Clugh]

Armer Ralph und Sebastian

In a high pole fractionally slotted concentrated wind unless you implement a "GIMMICK" as he says the magnets are going to get hot from slot harmonics at high rpm. And sure you can test the validity of a 180C magnet report. Heat the magnets to 180C degrees and see if they will pick up anything.

astonishing for an amateur I guess....

:exploding_head:


If they are true to the report full magnetism will return when they cool. You can knock them out on purpose then do post assembly. At 1 kilo the core is also going to get hot.

What are they talking about Mentor Lucas? Ralphs motors drive the magnets past 180C because the damage he reports as permanent.

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert,

We don't care about the troll who keeps running after you to finally learn how to optimize electric motors. But why should you bother with a scrap dealer who is still trying to clear out his junk parts box?
Who keeps the old welding transformer from communist times? With some kind of insulation on the wire from GDR production, you can just use house wall paint. But in all the years he has owned the scrap, he could have simply wound two coils with the same connection resistance and the same number of turns and compared them when loaded with high currents. He couldn't even manage that. There are reasons why the US Army has us develop its new hybrid electric tank drives and not ask the scrap dealer.
Drones are now flying at over 500 km/h with small 450 gram drives and 1800 mAh batteries. They can do this without any downturn, free fall energy use. They just fly straight ahead. Their propellers run well into supersonic speeds at a circumferential speed of 1600 km/h and more without anyone getting upset about excessive noise. The pilots don't even wear hearing protection. 7x11 APC propeller with over 50,000 rpm.
They should give you a 100 volt fun class drone, that would be fun.
Bet, we will see tomorow the welding transformer coil burning .

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Ralph!

test the 8057 magnets they are rated for 180C. Funny the issues with the truthfulness of your magnets becomes all the other manufactures just because u say it.

COMPONENT SPECIFICATIONS

• Winding temperature: -- 180C
• Magnet grade: - 180C UH grade
• Bearings: Japanese SPB bearings

We believe....

[Clugh]

And Lehners already use Segmented PM. The crocodile says no slot wedges or overlapping winds so how will he fix these issues of demag? Like you say.... I think I will take a 90 day break from sharing solutions with him and just work . Come back and see what these two trouble makers create in 3 months.




TTYL
Hubert

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert,

for hotter motors we use SmCo magnets , normal up to 250 C* and spezial up to 550 C* , Currie temp is 700 - 850 C*

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Hi Hubert,

for hotter motors we use SmCo magnets , normal up to 250 C* and spezial up to 550 C* , Currie temp is 700 - 850 C*

Happy Amps Christian

Yes but they will be thicker relatively speaking. Yes?

and why not implement something that eliminate the source of the heat instead?

I would also believe motors that see those temps will have welded terminations.

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert,
yes, you are right, the SamariumCobalt magnets need to be a little thicker. However, when heated more strongly, they do not lose as much field strength as neodymium magnets. The SmCo machines therefore do not destroy themselves like neodymium machines whose emf becomes smaller and smaller due to the weakening field and so the neodymium motor has to increase its speed to compensate. To do this, it has to absorb more power and then the **** starts steaming very quickly. This will certainly often be one of the reasons for smoking windings in model engines. Not uninteresting could be, for example, a development that uses Peltier elements on the stator for cooling and, on the other hand, with a larger delta T (temperature difference to the outside air) ensures increased cooling performance for cooler engines. That is certainly too much weight for the speeders. Pre-cooling before the flight alone would be an important step. For speed applications I usually relied on a very simple water evaporator cooling system. For short peak performance, very little H2O is enough. You've already shown quite a few cooling solutions. But as we can see, these innovations have not worked for the men. Better to keep rewinding by 🤥 😵💫

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Hi Hubert,
yes, you are right, the SamariumCobalt magnets need to be a little thicker. However, when heated more strongly, they do not lose as much field strength as neodymium magnets. The SmCo machines therefore do not destroy themselves like neodymium machines whose emf becomes smaller and smaller due to the weakening field and so the neodymium motor has to increase its speed to compensate. To do this, it has to absorb more power and then the **** starts steaming very quickly. This will certainly often be one of the reasons for smoking windings in model engines. Not uninteresting could be, for example, a development that uses Peltier elements on the stator for cooling and, on the other hand, with a larger delta T (temperature difference to the outside air) ensures increased cooling performance for cooler engines. That is certainly too much weight for the speeders. Pre-cooling before the flight alone would be an important step. For speed applications I usually relied on a very simple water evaporator cooling system. For short peak performance, very little H2O is enough. You've already shown quite a few cooling solutions. But as we can see, these innovations have not worked for the men. Better to keep rewinding by 🤥 😵💫

Happy Amps Christian

If the winding expert wound something beside a dual layer wye he wouldnt need localization on the pm structure to mitigate the harmful effect of slot harmonics but here again he is not going to switch his bifilar winding and plans to stay with his George Foreman grill.

Anywhoo 90 days from now if you have anything more that some additional dual layer wye motors ready to burn Id be highly surprised, They wont do anything but type on the keyboard.



The timer is ion 5:33 am 8/18/2024 lets see what comes in November because 4 years wasn't enough time even though they are on forums all over the world with alias accounts running their mouth everyday.

[Clugh]

He doesn't realize that a 4 layer could be his bifilar but it is stacked radially not axial. Instead of winding two parallel wires side by side you wind a single wire dual layer first then another one on top of it shifted N degrees. This has the same amount of copper in the slot as his bifilar but the shift is the overlap that dampens the subharmonic that destroys the questionable pm of a Scorpion outrunner. I will make the change truly necessary for him when I release a few tuned 50 series machine. If he gives up 3 points of efficiency in that machine like his 42 series grill he is in trouble with his sales.

We are stamped as most efficient by some of the best pattern and 3D flight RC pilots in the world

Watch! 👀

With Love....
Hubert

[Clugh]

Boho1
Today, 05:49 AM

Glad to see you here early this morning in BLDC motor class Ralph.

You and the musician have assignments to show us what we missed. Its due in November 18th that's 3 full months.

watch what happens 🙄

Hubert