Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Its really too bad these jet drives only receive 7.62nm of torque at 20kW consumption from these motors...Thats awfully undersquare Chris. The surfboards cannot be any slower with this mechanical output deficiency.

The photos are someone elses equipment and they are cute but it has not been explain why the big Powercroco motor makes no torque at 20kW He doesnt cover these topics on the German social media and oddly despite all the self made geniuses there no one there ask. They ban people like me who will....

Thats been the practice.

The MGM wont make it into the speed planes either MGM also won't cover ignorance under warranty like YGE for inadequate power supply and demagnetized rotors

[Clugh]

Watch what you say. Dont forget they will ban you for talking about their poor lopsided moderation but isnt it funny no one ask on the German social media "GOT TORQUE" ?

There in a trance of stupor where they don't even ask this man the most basic questions about his motors they spend their cash on. he catches fire on the ground and the send thumbs up.

Thats Jonestown all day.

Do you think My pilots would give me a thumbs up for that. And do u think id be proud of it to keep showing you all my failed motors and not change something I'm doing?

[Clugh]

7.62 Nm of torque at 20kW is nothing compared to whats out there off a shelf. Plenty of motors that make that torque at half that consumption or 3 times as much at its consumption.

Is anyone impressed by the MHZ motor data the accompanies the photo?

[Clugh]

Technical details

Stator Diameter:	74mm
Stator Length:	55mm
Magnet Poles:	20
Motor KV:	330KV
Max. Rotation:	17.500 upm
Max. frequent current:	14.000W (14KW)
Max. peak current:	22400W (22,4KW)
No load current:	9,1A
Max. V:	56V
Continuous A:	250A
Max. peak A:	400A
Weight:	2200g
Diameter motor shaft:	12mm (beidseitig)
Length shaft:	40mm vorn | 14,5mm hinten
Total length:	106mm
Motor Timing:	24° oder mehr
Attachment diameter:	45mm (6xM5)
Max. Lipo:	12-14
Frequency:	8KHz
Winding:	2 Turn Delta
Torque:	5,2Nm
Material:	Aluminium | Steel

Sorry it actually only reports 5.2 Nm in a 2200gram machine Chris... He shouldn't mention Lehner or anything we make in America in the same breath!!!

[Clugh]

About 85% efficient is whats here. Thats what you get for $1,055.10 in us dollars but an American 2030 price the same but the efficiency is above 94% and get better as the rpm and load increase. It can also turn 60,000 rpm. Even a drag series 1539 can beat this motor all day at half the cost and 3 times the quality.

• Vor 21 Minuten

• #681

Rennboot o.ä. ... der Oberklasse. So viel Power, damit der Chef Wasserski damit laufen kann ...

Gruß Gerd und alles Watt ihr Volt

The German social media is funny Christian.

So much power consumption he means... connected to the 64 it driving the smallest jet drive they make unloaded...

[Clugh]

I guess they dont know how old this stuff is. Here a video from 7 years ago of the same old thing, This is hardly new..
You wont find a single boat that does more than 70 mph with it Ill give you some cash if you can show me one. Put some real pitch on 70mm on it and it burns up.

The surfboards impeller is so small that it drives all it does is ventilate or go 20 mph...

[Clugh]

Elektromodellflug Infos

Have you friend test it Ralph and report the numbers and Eta to the forum.

What is your MECHANICAL POWER reality at 5.62 Nm?

(3.8353231764 FT/LBS x 17,500 RPM)/5252)745

9.5kW !!!



Hubert

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert,
that ist wy efficancy is so important. The following from Ron van Sommeren show how :
Assume the motor has an efficiency η = 0.900 and can handle an input power of 5.0 kW. This means that (1 - 0.9) × 5 kW = 500 watts of excess heat can be dissipated. By pressing in thicker wire (and/or using better segmented stator iron magnets) the efficiency increases to 0.933. The motor's ability to lose those 500 watts has not changed (through radiation, convection and conduction). This means the motor can now handle 7.5 kW before reaching the 500 watt (0.066 × 7.5 kW) loss limit. An efficiency from 90 to 93.3% means an increase in performance of 50%, factor 1.5. That's why efficiency plays such an important role in every engine concept: efficiency determines the maximum performance. This is all assuming that the iron is not saturated. A fairly extreme example, just for the sake of calculation/fun: an increase in efficiency from 80% to 90% would increase the input power the motor can handle by a factor of 2. However, if the efficiency can be increased from 90% to 95%, the input power also increases by a factor of 2. General case A change from efficiency ηold to efficiency ηnew would result in an increase in the maximum engine power by a factor of N N = (1 - eta old) / (1 - eta new) Copper as thick as possible for... higher efficiency more performance lower speed drop under load lower losses lower temperature requires less cooling.

About the jetdrives , we know that they are not the top . The Munich University has designed new jetdrives for the Audi Jetfoil that need less power and has higher Speed.

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Instead of all the thumbs up on the GSM people need to put their thumbs on a calculator somewhere. 9,5 kW mechanical is quite a bit aways from 14kW of continuous electrical consumption.

so now you know not even that graph is accurate . They wish the ETA was 85% its not even close



we will wait for remote explanations.....

And thats why it was burning up in the surfboard Christian. The internal helix cooling only covers up its issues and that does not cool the rotor PM which is why you lose adequate field.


Thank you for your time and patience
Hubert

[Clugh]

Besides it is a delta DLRK engine so it isnt the "best" motor for a sinus drive anyway it does not have the same waveform as a wye machine. It is the more BLDC of the two and MGM is def not that.

You really need to see Dr Hendershots work on the subject matter of wave forms and terminations and how it affects them.

All you do is inject commutation ripple when you mis match

Christian why do scorpion users refuse to use the scorpion inverter?

I've looked at it and its software. It is a quality drive.

[Clugh]

The internal jacket is only a 1/3 of the cooling improvement possible. The windings can be water cooled directly and slot wedges would cool the rotor significantly. The lack of thermal coupling from the windings to the stator only reduces the significance of the cooling improvements.

[Chxpress]

Hi,
yes you are right with the cooling and with the slotwedges. Also to remember is that this motors run not only 40 Seconds, thatˋs the time to start and accelerate.
It dosnˋt matter for me. They can put 4 or six or moore motors.

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

The motor still is unpotted ralph so it runs about 35 degrees hotter than properly coupled windings no matter where you put the wire. The test subject dont even have a 2nd layer of coils anywhere so these engines probably run even hotter than the test subjects. Make it eazy and just copy POCBOI because you know you need to u just dont want your fans to see who teaches you.



Hubert

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert, What is the schlapecroco talking about when it comes to torque? When it comes to electric machines, Tesla counts. 2 Tesla just go into iron machines. With a Tesla it's easy after that it gets heavier and heavier and then it no longer becomes linear then the coils come into operation as air coils. And with iron you need thick stator teeth and thick magnets. This means that up to 20 N per cm^2 of rotational thrust can be achieved. Everyone can calculate for themselves what torque a stator can generate and at almost all speeds. Of course, the higher the pole change frequencies, the more difficult it is to get the current into the coils in time, but there are modern controller logics for that. So nothing with speed times torque determines the maximum power. Why didn't we leave the high-torque machines at low speeds but instead developed them for the highest speeds? Up to Mach 2 circumferential speed at full torque, that is the formula Hr. Okon. But then you make mistakes when cutting the stator with thin stator teeth. Where is the rotational thrust supposed to come from? and speeds have never really increased. 50,000 rpm is already too much for them.
Mach doch mal,20 N pro cm^2. Damit schiebt man Heute an.

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Hi Hubert, What is the schlapecroco talking about when it comes to torque? When it comes to electric machines, Tesla counts. 2 Tesla just go into iron machines. With a Tesla it's easy after that it gets heavier and heavier and then it no longer becomes linear then the coils come into operation as air coils. And with iron you need thick stator teeth and thick magnets. This means that up to 20 N per cm^2 of rotational thrust can be achieved. Everyone can calculate for themselves what torque a stator can generate and at almost all speeds. Of course, the higher the pole change frequencies, the more difficult it is to get the current into the coils in time, but there are modern controller logics for that. So nothing with speed times torque determines the maximum power. Why didn't we leave the high-torque machines at low speeds but instead developed them for the highest speeds? Up to Mach 2 circumferential speed at full torque, that is the formula Hr. Okon. But then you make mistakes when cutting the stator with thin stator teeth. Where is the rotational thrust supposed to come from? and speeds have never really increased. 50,000 rpm is already too much for them.
Mach doch mal,20 N pro cm^2. Damit schiebt man Heute an.

Happy Amps Christian

LOL "imposter"? man that's him. He wont be mentioning the 5.62Nm , Since he has never worked in the engineering fields in his life what does he know about a degree in engineering?. He doesn't have one or a single patent to anything useful. He is purely a social media celebrity but in our field no one knows him. The F3A guys claim they don't know him or ever even heard of him at all. When he starts pumping fallacy you know you've won the technical debate. See no one has said a thing about the fact he had no degrees in engineering of any kind or the fact you taught him how to wind .

All you gota do is see if you can find a linked in professional profile stating what tech companies he worked for.

ZERO!
They visit mine often enough trying to figure out who I am.

Neugierige Bastarde.

[Clugh]

Yet and still Nobody on a forum gives a rats ass about an engineering degree,

THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY A 7455 consumes 20Kw on electrical power when it only makes 9.5 kW mechanical . THATS CRITICAL AND RELEVANT but If he can get you to start talking about **** like engineering degrees it takes the spotlight of his POS motor that is less than 85% efficient for 1100 dollars USD.



in the hole....is what the consumer gets for his money.

[Clugh]

PMFSM

[Clugh]

The theme is dishonesty with him because how are you receiving remote responses on the German social media from someone that claims they are not on this site but literally camp here 24/7 365.

The online Personna is a habitual liar. Zero integrity. The goal post are never stationary with him.

Take the 90 day furlow and see what is created.

I have real machines to build. He's playing around.

TTYS
Hubert

[Clugh]

We wont wonder if they can hit 600km/h in 2025 . We will know they can do that.

Its the same old thing with him and no explanations about the tremendous lack or torque at 9.5kW of mechanical output for nearly double that in peak consumption.


WSM 2025 with knockers = the 2025 black box festival

[Clugh]

Hi Chris,
In reference to the paper you sent me about pm. Here is that example I told you about on the internal rotor. See the reverse trap pm in the bread loaf? The external could be done the same way or a v pole which would already give you 2 local zones but then like they do they stack the pm axially in the internal void of the laminated rotor. the IPM would also allow you to cool the gap with the ferrofluid. You'd fully encapsulate the windings to isolate it to the gap only This is what you'll find inside an industrial BLDC servomotor as a spindle drive in a quarter million dollar robot. Ralph Okon has probably only seen it at a winding expo. I'm in the field repairing this bs!

You have all the developmental tools at hand engineer, but you could also use FEMM or the tool i posted here to find an optimal focus angle i suppose. I have both and hardly use them. LOL. I can print many iterations now and just look at wave form and harmonics on a scope if so inclined. For me it is more important to know why youd do something geometrically different in the first place by alot of research into others optimization test and what they found as a guide. That way you should be able to design a good foundation right off then optimize. To me you dont rely on tool like FEMM as a beginning, which is a wonderful complimentary design tool, you rely on understanding.

After the new driveway to the shop is complete i suppose for the bench i could buy a Yokogawa motor PA.

Thank you for your time and patience,
Hubert