This is to me personally, the greatest Freewing jet new or old due to the well designed thrust vectoring setup. I also love the look of the grey camo version. If there aren't any new thrust vectoring models in development at Freewing, I guess this is the one that we need to stock up on. (I am buying two grey camo versions tomorrow)!! Can you please advise if we can wire this plane up to use two batteries (will they fit)? Or am I best to just use a huge mAh 6S like a 6000? I am trying to get the most flight time possible with the stock motors and edf. The Hyperion G8 batteries (30/60C variant) are tiny and light and will allow combinations never seen before (like two 8s in planes that could only fit two 6S). In regards to the EPS foam, I have read this thread and others. Don't use FoamTac, use epoxy. EPS is softer than EPO, and is less repairable due to being more brittle and more subject to denting and cracking. However, it has the same tensile strength and is much lighter than EPO which is why you probably used EPS for all Freewing thrust vectoring jets. It's unfortunate that all of the larger 80mm and 90mm thrust vectoring versions are discontinued at Motion RC (Eurofighter, F18E, F35 and F16 (every one created except the SU-35))... I did get the confirmation from Motion RC that it is one of their best selling Freewing aircraft and that they haven't received any notice of pending discontinuation.
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Freewing Su-35 Twin 70mm 12 blade
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I use a HobbyKing Turnigy Heavy Duty 5000mah, 6s in this plane and I think there may be room for a 6000mah but you'd have to get the measurement of the battery compartment and the battery to know for sure. I doubt very much that it will take much more. A lighter battery of the same advertised mah, is light for a reason. I adhere to the notion that you get what they pack into a battery. I've got 3000mah Graphenes that weigh the same as non-graphene type batteries in the 4000mah size. Both fly about the same time and same sort of punch. I also have 2800mah Zippy batteries that weigh the same as 2200mah heavy duty batteries and those also are very equivalent in flight time and performance. If your Hyperion G8 batteries are "tiny and light", they may not be equivalent to the same number of mah in a higher "C" rated Graphene or Heavy Duty or even a more conventional LiPo. These EDFs need lots of punch (or high C) to fly with authority. Flight times will be commensurate with how you fly. If you fly "pedal to the metal" the whole flight, the difference between a 5000mah and a 6000mah may only end up being 1/2 minute or less. If you watch the "pros" fly EDFs, you will almost always see them take off with heavy or full throttle and then immediately back off for most of the flight, enjoying the occasional fly by at full zoot.
I don't know about this "don't use FoamTac" thing. I've used FoamTac on all foam planes, including this one and I've witnessed no harm. I use epoxy only in specialized areas (like motor and retract mounts). Joining foam parts with epoxy results in a very thin, brittle interface that can crack on either side of the glue join.
As far as I know, the vector nozzles and their housings are virtually identical between this plane, the F-18, Eurofighter and Sebart Mig 29, with only the cosmetic outlet ring being the only alteration. I've salvaged the nozzle assemblies from old broken SU-35, Mig29 and Eurofighter. The housing and the round swiveling parts that go into them, are all identical. I also have the FW F-35, 70mm and 90mm F-16 and neither has ever had vector thrust as a stock feature. There is a new jet that has recently (earlier this year) been introduced with vector thrust and that's the Flex Innovations FlexJet. It's a 90mm EDF (flies on 8s) with a single vector nozzle. A single nozzle has limited capabilities. You need twin vectors so that you have some "aileron" control when there is reduced airflow over the control surfaces.
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Xviper, thanks for your follow up... The Freewing airplanes that I mentioned above (Eurofighter, F18E, F35 and F16) did have thrust vectoring and were discontinued. Just search thrust vectoring in Motion RC's search box and they will be displayed. You can click on them and see that they did have thrust vectoring and were discontinued. I know about the FlexJet Super (8S) version but it looks like a flying cooler... Ugly white foam and not scale at all. Hence the SU-35 dream bird getting ordered tomorrow. Hopefully, doing the upgrades that you mentioned (beefing up the front landing gear) is easy to accomplish. Thanks again XViper for all the info, it is truly helpful! Trust me though, the Hyperion G8 batteries are NOT the same as zippy or the others... Totally different quality and tested output. They definitely are the best per third party testing (lots of it) and are much smaller with removable balance leads. I am sure I can easily fit a 6,000 Hyperion G8 (30/60C variant it's lighter than the higher C versions). Here is a link to the battery I am talking about: https://hyperion-world.com/en/g8-6s-...-45c-4-35-4-2v as I need to get 5-6 minute flight times so I feel like I get enough time in the air with her...
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I had no idea about the TV on the F-35 or F-16 (or I forgot because they never interested me). I do remember a thread a while back where many people talked about thrust vectoring in a very negative way. Things were said about "We can do without TV on this plane" or "I'll buy it when they get rid of the TV". I think that was the beginning of the end. When they did come back, they were without the TV.
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Yeah, it's very unfortunate that they are not putting thrust vectoring on all planes with an option to use it or just leave it off... Here is a link to a 90mm thrust vectoring nozzle that can be put on any 90mm plane: https://www.ebay.com/itm/QTMODEL-360...YAAOSw-mVdvyPV. I was thinking about putting this on the 90mm Freewing F-16C but I decided it will be more work than I want and will affect the CG. Therefore, sticking with the SU-35 where the work is already done for me. I wish we could convert the SU-35 to use two 4S packs which would give way more power and longer flights times. I linked the G8 6000 LiHV in my previous post so you can check out the specs.
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I did decide to swap out the servos on the SU-35 right from the start. Any suggestions for a mid-price point for full metal gear servos that will fit easily to replace the stock ones? I was thinking Hitec or Savox but not sure if others are just as good and cheaper. Is it an easy process to change them out and run the wires on the SU-35? Thanks again all!
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Originally posted by Vegas_RC_ACE View PostI linked the G8 6000 LiHV in my previous post so you can check out the specs.
I can't comment on the servo topic.
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I use 819g HRB 6000mah 6S lipos in mine and they fit easily. In my opinion, and I've stated this in previous posts, it flies better with heavier lipos. Plus, the twin 70s are obviously about as power hungry as a 140mm EDF haha
I need to get out and fly mine more... its been quite a while as I have been working on and flying other planes. Next to maiden is the twin 80mm A-10.
Good luck! and good choice on the grey version
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Originally posted by xviper View PostI had no idea about the TV on the F-35 or F-16 (or I forgot because they never interested me). I do remember a thread a while back where many people talked about thrust vectoring in a very negative way. Things were said about "We can do without TV on this plane" or "I'll buy it when they get rid of the TV". I think that was the beginning of the end. When they did come back, they were without the TV.
It wasn't until Jandro (Su4ever on RCG) convinced me to try it out; this was after a nasty crash which was probably cause by me turning downwind with too little airspeed: TV could have saved the day.
When I re-maidened the model after restoration, I tried it out (I even asked a fellow club member to throw the "TV off" switch on my radio should I panic, but it wasn't necessary) and I immediately found out that I never should have been afraid of it. No nervousness, no powerdrill roll rates or anything like that.
A few flights later, it even saved me when I screwed up during one landing, allowing a go around in high alpha, which wouldn't have been possible without TV.
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Great, keep us posted!
I crashed mine on takeoff last week, sadly. But she's repaired and ready for flight again.
Last winter, I installed a gyro on the TV nozzles, which forced me to move around some channels on the receiver. I failed to notice that I didn't put enough expo on elevator, and none on the nozzles.
When I took off, on a grass runway that wasn't cut really short, it took quite a while for it to get airborne, and so I pulled it off the ground, fearing an overrun.
As soon as she got airborne, I got in trouble: she jumped into the air, and I over-corrected badly. She hit the high grass with one wing and cartwheeled. I think it was a good thing that the crash happened this quickly; had it gotten really airborne, with these hyper-sensitive controls, I don't know whether or not I could have landed it safely.
Result: one wing ripped out of the fuselage, nose broken, nose gear doors broken off.
Lessons learned: check and check again after a serious modification.
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What is the best controls setup for the Su-35? My first Su-35 had the conventional setup: The wing ailerons function just as ailerons, and elevators function just as elevators. I find it very difficult to recover from a flat spin when using thrust vectoring. If I try to get out of the spin by giving opposite yaw (with vectoring), it'll just start to spin the other way. If I apply opposite yaw without vectoring, nothing will happen. The only way is to recover is to give full throttle (without vectoring) and dive the aircraft. I lost my first Su-35 due to a failed recovery. Image was taken a year ago.
Currently have a second Su-35 in hand and would like to try a different setup: Use ELE as tailerons, and AIL as flaps. Is anyone flying with the setup? How does it perform?
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I'm not familiar with flat spins, but I found this on RCG, from a real expert on this model:
"For the flatspins, the trick is to get the jet stopped in midair, flat to the ground.
The easiest way is to get there is performing a backflip.
Once the jet is fully stalled and leveled to horizon, you can just apply full roll with tailerons engaged (throttle off) and the jet will spiral on its own.
It may not work for you as you limited taileron throws for roll if I recall correctly.
If that is so, then you can help it adding a bit of throttle and full counter-aileron yaw.
Yaw and roll stick inputs must be the opposite of each other.
You can also perform a flatspin using only pitch and yaw (no roll) with the vectored thrust but that's not really scale, and anyway it will work different for yours as you set up your nozzles like the fullscale jet."
He does use taileron, however. Hope it helps a bit....
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Flanker271 I conducted many tests with my previous Su-35. All control surfaces were on individual channels. I found that with flaperons she would kind of wallow around with aileron input. But, tailerons were very effective. So the way I ended up programming here was that if the flaps were deployed, then tailerons would be used for roll control. The ailerons would just become flaps only at that point. I also found that she needed flaps and TV engaged to get off the grass runway in the shortest time.
On landing I use flaps and tailerons. On takeoff, 1/2 flaps, tailerons, and TV. For high speed flight (flaps up) tailerons become elevators only, and ailerons are engaged.
Here is about the only film of that aircraft that I can locate. The video is kind of low res, but It has a great shot of the landing. I used full flaps and tailerons for landing. I will hopefully get some 4k footage as soon as I get this one built.
Meridian Aeromodelers, Meridian MS
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Excellent detailed explanation seaviper, much appreciated! It sounds like there is quite a bit of programming involved with your setup. Do you put different "flight conditions" on a switch? i.e. takeoff, landing, high speed cruise, etc.
Based on the inputs from you and HangerQueen, I'll try taileron setup for now (without TV) and see how that goes. Fortunately our club has a paved runway so I can takeoff without flaps or TV. Right now just wanted to get a feel for the best controls setup before adding fancy mixing with the TV. The conventional aileron/elevator setup just doesn't seem optimal. Those all-flying stabs are massive and seems a bit wasteful if only used for pitch control.
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