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Freewing 90mm F-22 Raptor - Official Thread

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  • If you want to avoid this sort of "tragedy", it would be better to invest in a bit more advanced radio equipment, preferably with telemetry capabilities.
    As I mentioned above, telemetry can monitor signal quality at the receiver for you, and warn you well in advance of any problem that might be developing.
    On one occasion I had a receiver antenna that got blanked out by a hidden carbon element inside the fuselage. I did a range check, everything just fine. I got a low signal warning in flight, landed immediately, then did a 360° range check around the model, and thus found out that there was some sort of dead corner of reception at a certain angle. Without telemetry, I might have ended up with some wreckage with a blinking led on the receiver telling me there has been a problem. I take gliders hundreds of meters up, never had any problem of signal strength or signal loss.
    Once you have telemetry, you can add a current sensor and have the radio calculate the consumed mAh for you and call them out, instead of guessing the remaining battery by using a timer. You don't guess the fuel remaining in your gas tank by timing how long you've been driving, do you?
    Another protection that I always use in somewhat larger models is dual power supply. I add a separate receiver battery and its own BEC, and combine that with the integrated BEC of the ESC to have redundancy. I used a dual Schottky diode, a component that costs less than 1 Euro, to combine both power inputs. Now I used a 10-channel receiver (covers 24 channels really, if you use the Fbus to connect more than 10 servos) with stabilization (the auto-level is handy when I lose orientation of the model), mentioned telemetry capabilities and dual power supply input, and it costs around 50 Euro. No need for non-genuine receivers of any kind.
    Fail-safe positions for each channel ensures that in case of signal loss, the model will throttle down to idle and make a shallow descending turn.
    In the last 10 years since I got back to RC, I have never lost any model to signal loss (signal strength telemetry) or "brown out" (dual power supply), no LVC (current and consumption telemetry), only to pilot error.

    Comment


    • Great advice!!
      I am looking to upgrade to the Spektrum NX 10 channel transmitter, that should be enough to handle any future updates.

      thanks for your help!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by StevenR View Post
        Great advice!!
        I am looking to upgrade to the Spektrum NX 10 channel transmitter, that should be enough to handle any future updates.

        thanks for your help!
        Until you need 11 channels 😁

        Comment


        • No seriously....if you are going to invest in new material, better make sure that you don't have to repeat the exercise in a couple of years. If you're into EDF jets, sooner or later 10 channels will be limiting too. There are plenty of telemetry-capable 16-channnel radios available for very affordable prices. My X20S radio cost around 400 Euro (up to 24 channels), a standard (all are telemetry capable) 8 channel receiver costs around 35 Euro, telemetry sensors about the same price. Never, ever had any problem with range or LVC, thanks to the telemetry.

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          • I've seen people happy with 3ch radios. Happy with no D/R or expo, happy without telemetry. But I have seen many that update technology ever few years spending quite a bit of money along the way. Along the way there have been a number of significant advancements that cause a lot of upgrades, 27MHz to 72. Narrow band. Computerized radios. 2.4. Open source... I think that we are about to have another step with FAA caused changes and can easily see that the FCC could cause some changes to have more "control" on us.

            The general rule is buy as much radio as you can afford. By "as much" means different things to different people and the type aircraft they fly. To me canned programing is important. I don't like OS. Telemetry is not important to me. Decent gimbles, well places three position switches and mandatory side sliders are. Of course, a good RF link is important, but I think most all radios do have a good RF link, It's more antennae or RX placement now. It's a lot better than the old days. I know a lot of people that don't even know how to do a range check.

            I have a 18ch radio and more than a handful of planes using 12ch receivers but that's me...

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            • A couple of weeks ago, I saw a fellow club member who was "happy without expo". He had a beautifully built scale model, and the maiden flight was pretty exciting for him. It was all over the place. He has plenty of years of experience in (excellent) building and flying. But somehow, he took my advice on trying out 30% of expo on elevator, if only for one flight. The flight went perfect this time, and he never looked back. He can't tell me why he never wanted expo, especially now that he experienced what it actually does.
              Same goes for telemetry. I've seen plenty of crashes where the wreckage reveals the blinking led of death. Those guys never even heard of real-time signal strength telemetry, the only know post-crash that they seem to have lost signal "at some point". Telemetry can give you advance warning; I don't see much disadvantage in that.
              "The general rule is buy as much radio as you can afford"
              True, but then you get into the brands war. In one brand you can afford the high-end model where you have an entry-level model for the same price in another brand.
              For 400 Euro I have a radio that supports dual-band 900MHz and 2,4GHz in 24 channels, where another club member just bought a 20-channel radio for around 2000 Euro, single-band 2,4GHz.
              I really want to stay far away from brand wars, but just wanted to make clear that you have to keep an open mind when choosing a new radio, do some research, and be aware that there isn't always an absolute correlation between quality and price. (expensive isn't always proportionally better).

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              • Yep, totally agree. I pretty much see no point in sticking to Spektrum in this day and age. Go get a proper 16ch system from FrSky, Radiomaster, Jeti (if you can afford it)...
                You'll get more for less.

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                • I agree with not wanting to start a brand war and agree with your post. But that person that had too much throw and it was fixed by using expo could have just as well been good with mechanically reducing throw by moving a push rod to another hole. I do agree that our radios have a lot to offer just that many didn't need the bells and whistles when they came out and many still don't care about them. I know many on here are not car people, but a lot of people still appreciate a manual transmission, or non powered brakes or steering. But then some look at a car as just transportation and want a self driving car so they can surf the web driving.


                  SU, out of that you got "no point in sticking to Spek"?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Evan D View Post
                    I agree with not wanting to start a brand war and agree with your post. But that person that had too much throw and it was fixed by using expo could have just as well been good with mechanically reducing throw by moving a push rod to another hole.
                    He tried that. And he found the expo solution way better, giving him more throw while retaining finer control around center. He knows all the "old skool" methods too (like mechanical differential for ailerons), but never even tried or considered the more contemporary features of modern radios. He was very grateful for letting me introduce the advantages of expo to him. He really couldn't explain why he never even bothered trying it out.
                    Originally posted by Evan D View Post
                    I do agree that our radios have a lot to offer just that many didn't need the bells and whistles when they came out and many still don't care about them. I know many on here are not car people, but a lot of people still appreciate a manual transmission, or non powered brakes or steering. But then some look at a car as just transportation and want a self driving car so they can surf the web driving.
                    Bad comparison. In Europe, the majority of drivers still have manual transmission, we're not really fond of automatic transmission. But we do appreciate ABS brakes, because of the obvious safety aspects. But oldtimer fans (I drive one too, an '87 Porsche 944) drive without power steering, because they want to keep the car original. Completely different discussion.
                    Originally posted by Evan D View Post
                    SU, out of that you got "no point in sticking to Spek"?
                    Well, when looking for a replacement for a DX6, like Steven is, it makes a lot of sense comparing other brands, that was exactly my point. Spektrum doesn't exactly have a reputation for offering a high feature-to-price ratio, when compared to for instance Frsky. A friend of mine sold all of her Spektrum stuff and bought Frsky instead, and even had some money left after this operation.
                    Dismissing the extra features isn't always sensible, as the story about expo above proves. Same thing for telemetry. When flying EDF jets, you want to optimize battery usage, and that is something that telemetry can really help you with. I recently had a 6-minute slow trimming flight with my 8S F22, thanks to telemetry. If I had used only a timer, I would have landed sooner, being unsure about remaining capacity. I wouldn't drive my car (let alone fly a 1:1 plane) with just a timer to estimate my fuel capacity. If the capabilities are available, why not use them? It does improve the quality of flying, so why not?

                    Comment


                    • I have no telemetry except in a couple racing quads. Could I get another 10 seconds of flight, maybe... I know enough to add time mentally if loafing about... I guess the point is we are different and you be you and I'll be me.

                      BTW since we are now dropping brand names I fly a $300 DX-18G2, previous radio was a $300 DX-18G1. I mostly fly Orange receivers. 8S F-22 (or when it was 6s, 10s or 12s) no issue... Tailerons full span aileron, rudder air brakes, no problem... 1:1 no issues there either. Life is good.

                      I think the car comparison is good, how about motorcycles?

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                      • I used to ride motorcycles all through summer and winter, until I had a very bad accident in 2001, very nearly killed me (a car swerved when traffic suddenly stopped in his lane, I got thrown off my bike and started sliding on my back at 130 km/h between the first two lanes of fast moving traffic, right next to the wheels of a big truck). Never wanted to ride one ever since, got scared, left with a serious trauma.
                        But, coming from a carburetor-fed 600cc high-revved sports bike, I switched to a fuel-injected 900cc because of the inherent reliability and predictable power delivery. The sports bike was more fun, but the sports-touring bike, being a bit more boring, used technology to improve safety. And still, it almost killed me (but not my fault nor the bike's fault).
                        I always try to use technology to its advantage, even when and especially when it takes out the guesswork. I have driven 2-stroke 400cc dirt bikes too, with drum brakes (close to no stopping power) and gear shift levers that require heavy equipment to operate. It was nothing less than exhilarating, the brutal power delivery, the wheelies and all, but would I drive it to work? Never in my life.
                        I learned to fly long before GPS was widely used in general aviation, and I'm really glad to have learned the skills of dead reckoning VFR navigation and radio navigation. It can be a life saver when all more modern equipment fails, but when available, GPS is a lot easier to use and gives the pilot more brain capacity available for other important tasks during flight. Again, technology is there to help us, and can improve the quality of whatever we're doing, so why not use it?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by HangarQueen View Post
                          I wouldn't drive my car (let alone fly a 1:1 plane) with just a timer to estimate my fuel capacity. If the capabilities are available, why not use them? It does improve the quality of flying, so why not?
                          A few points on this specific note.. Most new spektrum receivers have had telemetry capability for the last 2 years. They even include the voltage probe leads to attach to your ESC leads. On other aircraft (helis) I even get full telemetry (mah consumed, current, RPM, temp, voltage, ect) to my Spektrum TX. Most people don't even bother to hook it up though.

                          As for full scale, you seriously underestimate the importance of a timer in most older light GA aircraft. Most do not have a fuel gauge that is typically accurate enough to use as a primary source of info. Therefore, preflight planning (including duration of flight) and building in margin is of paramount importance. A fuel flow meter is commonly added in by newer owners (pretty much equivalent of telemetry).

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                          • Oh, but I have used a timer in the aircraft, mind you. But my point is that if you have a fuel gauge available, that will be your primary source of information, no? Same for my models: I have 500mAh consumption callouts, and my timer as a backup. Whenever telemetry fails, I'm glad to have my timer, and I will use that in a more conservative further flight planning.
                            I flew a 1947 Cub where the fuel gauge consists of a sort of dip stick that sticks out of the fuel tank in your field of view; the longer the stick, the more fuel left.
                            I just don't buy into the "the old skool methods are the only and the best" fetish that some pilots want to promote. If you have nothing else available, fine, but some (for the record, I'm not accusing anyone in this discussion of this) are more than stubborn about rejecting any modern technology, trying to prove that they are better pilots because they master the old techniques. I never ever underestimate the older technology, but I'm not dismissing modern technology either.

                            Comment


                            • To be clear I’m not saying “the "the old skool methods are the only and the best". I don’t think you think I am…

                              I was flying a long time before GPS was called that and it was secret we had it in our planes. :)

                              Comment


                              • We’ll guys I thought I had my mind made up regarding the spektrum nx10 but since it’s not in stock at horizon hobby until November I have some time to research other options! Sounds like Frsky is being recommended? Will my current Spektrum receivers bind to Frsky? I used to fly gliders in the early 90s using the old 72mhz 2 and 4 channel Futaba radios, so I have some old school in my blood but I am slowly starting to enjoy the new technology and educating myself to take advantage of it.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by StevenR View Post
                                  We’ll guys I thought I had my mind made up regarding the spektrum nx10 but since it’s not in stock at horizon hobby until November I have some time to research other options! Sounds like Frsky is being recommended? Will my current Spektrum receivers bind to Frsky? I used to fly gliders in the early 90s using the old 72mhz 2 and 4 channel Futaba radios, so I have some old school in my blood but I am slowly starting to enjoy the new technology and educating myself to take advantage of it.
                                  You should check with hobby shops in and around your area. Several hobby shops close to me had stock on the NX10 even though Horizon was "out of stock".
                                  As far as FrSky is being "recommended", note that only a couple of posters have done so. I believe that most who are Spektrum users don't really care if a new TX shopper gets this or that. Spektrum users don't seem to have the need to have other people use the same product to feel good about their buying choice. Since getting into Spektrum TXs, I've never considered going to other brands no matter how much a few people press them. Spek has worked for me from the very first TX and continue to do so with my latest acquired NX-10 and I personally don't care if others get it or not. You do your own research and get as much knowledge as you can on how these things work and what they can do for you. Any question you may have can be obtained via YouTube and/or Google searches.

                                  Since the subject was broached, I also come from a sports car and motorcycle background and I learned a very long time ago how to sift through all the "gotta get this", "gotta get that", "these are the best", "best bang for the buck", "you will love it", "you won't regret it". Well, I've heard it all and I've had lots of regrets.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by StevenR View Post
                                    We’ll guys I thought I had my mind made up regarding the spektrum nx10 but since it’s not in stock at horizon hobby until November I have some time to research other options! Sounds like Frsky is being recommended? Will my current Spektrum receivers bind to Frsky? I used to fly gliders in the early 90s using the old 72mhz 2 and 4 channel Futaba radios, so I have some old school in my blood but I am slowly starting to enjoy the new technology and educating myself to take advantage of it.
                                    Just go with Futaba and you will never look back..............

                                    Sorry, I just couldn't help myself after all this discussion, yes I'm old school, no expo, no dual rates, no telemetry, I have seen more guys crash from flipping switches or forgetting to flip a switch or distracted by call outs and warnings and go into panic mode on final approach only to stall and crash, old school for 38 yrs and Futaba........

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by StevenR View Post
                                      We’ll guys I thought I had my mind made up regarding the spektrum nx10 but since it’s not in stock at horizon hobby until November I have some time to research other options! Sounds like Frsky is being recommended? Will my current Spektrum receivers bind to Frsky?
                                      There are multi-protocol modules, but then you lose a lot of functionality of the radio, especially the telemetry part.
                                      Why not sell the receivers that you have and buy the Frsky receivers? Then you'll have the signal strength telemetry and everything. For the price that you sell a Spektrum receiver, you can buy a new Frsky receiver.


                                      Comment


                                      • I suggest going to the field and asking what others are using and if possible, borrow a radio for a day, bind your plane to it, program it and fly it. That’s what I did when 2.4 came out. I was flying Futaba with a 2.4 module and borrowed a Hitec, Spek, JR, and bought a Frsky (they were new then). I had about 50 planes/ helos with receivers so cost of receivers was very important too. I ended up getting the new, at the time, JR 9503X and using mostly Orange receivers.

                                        I found I did not like open source at all.

                                        I found I needed more channels and more free mixes and needing side sliders soon went to a DX-18G1 bought slightly used for $300 when the owner bought a G2. I fly every day and have since had a couple of additional DX-18's both G1 and G2 and currently fly on a G2. I have bought all four DX-18's for about $300 used and love them. Knowing HH will provide support, so far only needed once, for free, is a big plus too.

                                        I have also bought additional OS radios, have one don't use it, thinking maybe to use it for my racing quads but every time I try OS programming, I turn it off asking myself why...

                                        Comment


                                        • I have about 50 active planes. If I had to switch to another kind of receiver, I wouldn't get squat for the used ones. In fact, at one of the last swap meets/auctions, there was a box full of used RXs. I recall that box (probably about 30 RXs) sold for 50 bucks. Same for a box of used servos and used motors (both electric and gas). If the seller put a high reserve bit on those boxes of goodies, he'll be going home with the same box. And if you think a used TX will sell for good money, you best take off your rose colored glasses. Of course, if you just went out and bought a new one and decided not to use it and sell it right away, that's a different story, but then, will you get what you paid for it? Maybe but probably not. Used RC electrics, electronics and other parts is not a "get your money back" proposition. It's generally a money pit.

                                          Evan makes a terrific point. Go to your field and see what everyone is using and how satisfied they are with that equipment. Then decide. A couple of guys have come up to me at the field this past season asking "how do you ...................... ". Once I find out it's one of those fancy schmancy "open source" things, I tell them "sorry, don't know a thing about them". Funny thing is, nobody else at the field does either.

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