Freewing 90mm F-22 Raptor - Official Thread

[Brave Bro345]

How do you set up a taileron system on a 6 channel radio with the stock servos on the 90mm f22?

[Evan D]

You can't. You need an extra channel.

[xviper]

How do you set up a taileron system on a 6 channel radio with the stock servos on the 90mm f22?

You can't unless you eliminate something else, like flaps or ailerons. You need at least 7 channels to do it.
Oops, Evan beat me to it.

[Evan D]

Sorry. I apologize profusely.

[xviper]

How do you set up a taileron system on a 6 channel radio with the stock servos on the 90mm f22?

Another idea ................................ I don't know how adventuresome you are or if you are a risk taker, like to experiment and willing to chance splashing a fairly pricey plane, but ..................... You could link the ailerons and elevators and program it as "elevon" where the ailerons and elevators act in unison. Foamboard planes do this all the time and it works. RCPowers has an F-22 that utilize this method and it flies quite well. However, this F-22 is not like a foamboard one, so a warning must be made. You may require a servo reverser or 2. I did the linked thing on my Gripen but those were canards and act differently. It was very sensitive, twitchy and at times, dangerous. On a gyro, it was "manageable". Blink the wrong way and it can get out of control.
You'd need channels for throttle, left elevon, right elevon, gear, flap, rudder. Personally, I wouldn't do it.

[Airguardian]

How do you set up a taileron system on a 6 channel radio with the stock servos on the 90mm f22?

Do yourself a favour and get a better radio already. It's a better investment than a new airplane.
Check things like the Radiomaster Tx16, FrSky Taranis or Horus, etc.

[Brave Bro345]

Oh ok
I was just curious if that were possible thanks for the answers
also would you fly thus with or without a gyro?

[Evan D]

So easy to fly. If you want a gyro go for it but I don’t have one in mine.

[xviper]

So easy to fly. If you want a gyro go for it but I don’t have one in mine.

Sometimes, I'll do a flight, come down and realize I forgot to turn the gain on and never noticed any difference.

[Dougcarr73]

I’m sure this has been discussed, but I haven’t been able to find it. I have the 8s version of the F 22. And it’s fast, but also heavy given that I am using 6000 packs and even a pair of 7000s. I want to upgrade it so it runs on 10s or even 12s. My consideration right now is if I replace the speed control, can I get away with the stock fan and motor? From what I’m reading, I think I can. Motion says the components are only rated for eight. Obviously. It has the 150 amp speed control, but it will not run on 10s. Must be some sort of overvoltage protection. It turns on and you have control of the surfaces, but it will not throttle up. Thoughts?

SDW, it will work!

I have tested my stock 90mm motors and flight characteristics in my Freewing F22 and F18 on 10s and 9s. I learned that with 10s on the stock motor I got the same performance as the 9s setup, but with less flight time, more heat, and higher amp draw. The 9s gave me the same flight times as I had with the stock 8s setup, but with much more speed and power than stock. The 10s setup pushes the stock blades beyond the point of where they can create more thrust. It was very inefficient when compared to the 9s setup. I now run all my EDFs 1s more than stock (6s +3s pack for 9) or (4s + 3s pack for 7).

I'm getting the 1700mm FMS Corsair for Christmas (I need it after watching the movie "Devotion") and I've already got an 8s ESC ready to install on the stock setup. Which reminds me, the one upgrade you'll need is an ESC that can handle the voltage; the motor stays the same. I use the Spektrum 120amp 6s-12s ESC. Don't worry about the 120amp rating. I've maxed out at around 132amps when holding full power, but the ESC can actually handle up to 180amps for 10s. Here are my setups:

Freewing F22 - 90mm 1390kv 8s stock motor running on 9s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC
Freewing F18 - 90mm FMS 1500kv 8s motor on 9s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC
Freewing F4 - 90mm 1350 Freewing V2 motor on 9s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC
Freewing T45 - 90mm 1835kv 6s motor on 7s with Freewing 150amp 8s ESC (used ESC from stock F22); 122 mph
E-Flite Viper - 90mm 1500kv 8s motor on 9s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC; 142mph
E-Flite F16 - 80mm 2000kv 6s motor on 7s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC; 119mph
E-Flite 1.2m T28 - 3s motor on 6s with 70amp E-flite ESC; 102 mph
FMS 1.4m T28 - 4s motor on 6s with 100amp Spektrum ESC
Coming...
FMS 1700m F4 Corsair V3 - 300kv outrunner 6s motor on 8s with Freewing 150amp 8s ESC (using ESC from stock F4 Phantom)


In my experience, research and comments from the manufacturer, they design these motors very conservatively for public use, so adding a cell will get you near the limit and adding 2 cells is pushing it, but still doable if you are aware of your temperature and LVC limits. I have some of the most powerful and fastest setups at my airfield. Plus, they're a whole lot more fun to fly. The videos below informed my analysis and decisions to upgrade every one of my aircraft:

6s 70mm motor on 8s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOML_AEc_bM&t=363s)
6s 80mm motor on 7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfDqoRp94fs&t=222s)
8s 90mm motor on 10s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=230Ozg9XZmA)
6s 300kv prop motor on 8s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnus_JsnOG8)
3s motor on 6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAKL2S4zqVY)

If you have any questions on setup, drop me a line.

[SDW2001]

SDW, it will work!

I have tested my stock 90mm motors and flight characteristics in my Freewing F22 and F18 on 10s and 9s. I learned that with 10s on the stock motor I got the same performance as the 9s setup, but with less flight time, more heat, and higher amp draw. The 9s gave me the same flight times as I had with the stock 8s setup, but with much more speed and power than stock. The 10s setup pushes the stock blades beyond the point of where they can create more thrust. It was very inefficient when compared to the 9s setup. I now run all my EDFs 1s more than stock (6s +3s pack for 9) or (4s + 3s pack for 7).

I'm getting the 1700mm FMS Corsair for Christmas (I need it after watching the movie "Devotion") and I've already got an 8s ESC ready to install on the stock setup. Which reminds me, the one upgrade you'll need is an ESC that can handle the voltage; the motor stays the same. I use the Spektrum 120amp 6s-12s ESC. Don't worry about the 120amp rating. I've maxed out at around 132amps when holding full power, but the ESC can actually handle up to 180amps for 10s. Here are my setups:

Freewing F22 - 90mm 1390kv 8s stock motor running on 9s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC
Freewing F18 - 90mm FMS 1500kv 8s motor on 9s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC
Freewing F4 - 90mm 1350 Freewing V2 motor on 9s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC
Freewing T45 - 90mm 1835kv 6s motor on 7s with Freewing 150amp 8s ESC (used ESC from stock F22); 122 mph
E-Flite Viper - 90mm 1500kv 8s motor on 9s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC; 142mph
E-Flite F16 - 80mm 2000kv 6s motor on 7s with Spektrum 120amp 6-12s ESC; 119mph
E-Flite 1.2m T28 - 3s motor on 6s with 70amp E-flite ESC; 102 mph
FMS 1.4m T28 - 4s motor on 6s with 100amp Spektrum ESC
Coming...
FMS 1700m F4 Corsair V3 - 300kv outrunner 6s motor on 8s with Freewing 150amp 8s ESC (using ESC from stock F4 Phantom)


In my experience, research and comments from the manufacturer, they design these motors very conservatively for public use, so adding a cell will get you near the limit and adding 2 cells is pushing it, but still doable if you are aware of your temperature and LVC limits. I have some of the most powerful and fastest setups at my airfield. Plus, they're a whole lot more fun to fly. The videos below informed my analysis and decisions to upgrade every one of my aircraft:

6s 70mm motor on 8s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOML_AEc_bM&t=363s)
6s 80mm motor on 7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfDqoRp94fs&t=222s)
8s 90mm motor on 10s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=230Ozg9XZmA)
6s 300kv prop motor on 8s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnus_JsnOG8)
3s motor on 6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAKL2S4zqVY)

If you have any questions on setup, drop me a line.

Wow, that is some extensive real world testing and info! Thank you. It makes me feel more comfortable using the stock EDF system with a new HV speed control. As you can see, others have strong opinions on this. I may or may not upgrade the fan and motor. Thanks for the info!

[ElCid]

Anyone have thoughts on upgrading to the 12 blade 90mm fan and 1550amp ESC for this bird? I had an unfortunate "afterburner" wire ingestion incident :D into my 9 blade and while it appears to be ok (model flys fine) i am a bit worried about some scoring within the fan duct.

[Brave Bro345]

How solid is the f22 in the air when doing manuevers with thrust vectoring nozzles?

[Evan D]

Very. Since it’s so solid without it stays as solid with.

How solid is the f22 in the air when doing manuevers with thrust vectoring nozzles?

[Airguardian]

Classy

[ElCid]

Classy

Airguardian, you make it look so easy, but we know it's not. Fantastic flights! So now the question, it looks like you have a full span flaps, flaperons and tailerons (elevons) setup and you use them for most of those flights. How many channels is your receiver and would care to share (or point someone in the direction) of your setup?

[HornDogg]

Well, I finally went through the frame top to bottom post crash. Wasn't as bad as it seemed. Pretty much just landing gear... one rear and front. Epoxied the gear back in place and reinforced the foam and socket. Cycled and both are G2G. New fuselage is a February/ March wait. England has 7 but with $250 shipping plus item cost... not gonna jump on a new one yet. So... back to the issue at hand.

Cleared out SAFE. Put AS3X on its on switch (if needed) but disabled by default. Would anyone be willing to assist me with throw setting and setup? Gonna numb the aileron and elevator to about 50% max for this next test flight. Same for Rudder and maybe 60% max for elevator. Opting for that 20/30/40 on expo modes too. Anything else? Hoping for a New Year test flight or day after Christmas. TIA!

[Airguardian]

I wouldn't use epoxi on EPO, it doesn't bond well. Leave it be for now, but the next time you crack the LG, use gorilla glue, foamtac, or something like that. The glue Freewing supplies with these kits is also pretty good. ;)

Es for expo, I tend to go to larger values (60-80%) but then again, I use humongous throws... :p

you make it look so easy, but we know it's not. Fantastic flights!

Thanks a lot! :p
Some of the maneuvers shown are indeed not easy (for example, the normal high alpha without vectored thrust is kinda tricky on this jet, can crash easily if you don't know where the limits are), but other things, this jet makes it extremely easy, like inverted high alpha. The jet is so stable in it, it almost feels like cheating, haha!

You certainly still need to have the discipline to turn smoothly and use the rudders well, and don't rush the exits, but the airframe helps. :)

So now the question, it looks like you have a full span flaps, flaperons and tailerons (elevons) setup and you use them for most of those flights. How many channels is your receiver and would care to share (or point someone in the direction) of your setup?

I have to make a setup video for the Raptor yet, many people have already asked for it, will try to get it done ASAP.

That said, I use 2-position flaps with flight modes (meaning, each has its own dedicated stab trim). Flap 1 just deploys the inner 'flapelevons' a bit. I use this for taking off. Flaps 2, drops the inner surfaces further, and droops a bit the outer 'flapelevons', more or less like the full scale jet does. I use this for landing and, surprisingly, upright high alpha. I don't think it's usually a good idea to drop flaps on high alpha but works decent on this model and looks cool. :)

Tailerons are always on.
Inner elevons are mostly used as flaps only (although I can toggle them on as either ailerons, elevators, elevons or pitch-linked combat flaps).
Outer elevons are mostly used as elevons, but I can switch pitch function off (and also droop in flaps 2).
Both inner and outer elevons keep moving in both pitch and roll (whatever is activated at the time) when deploying flaps.
These elevons can also open differentially on a single wing, linked to the rudders to generate asymmetric drag and help on wingovers.
Rudders and tailerons are gyro-controlled (HE A3S3). Wing surfaces are not.

My receiver has 16ch, with 8 PWM outputs and the rest on SBUS.

I think I'm using 12 at the moment.

Essentially I just use the 8 PWM outputs and the rest of the channels are fed to the gyro through SBUS, which in turn, controls the remaining servos.

[HornDogg]

I wouldn't use epoxi on EPO, it doesn't bond well. Leave it be for now, but the next time you crack the LG, use gorilla glue, foamtac, or something like that. The glue Freewing supplies with these kits is also pretty good. ;)

Es for expo, I tend to go to larger values (60-80%) but then again, I use humongous throws... :p

I used the EA E-30CL from Loctite. But I'll keep an eye on it until I can get a new fuselage. Thanks. Your setup would be of great assistance.

[Evan D]

Here's a video of mine. I don't have crazy throws (I think I'm on mid rates in the video) but I do have TVs.

IMG 1771 - YouTube

Though I have full span flaps I like the feel of standard flaps better. I also don't use elevator to flap mix, it doesn't work as well as most planes, probably since the TE of the flaps are right at the LE of the stabs.