Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[Evan D]

While I love the flight characteristics of the F/A18E with thrust vectoring it was and is (I recently built and modified yet another V1) a plane that had many weaknesses. From very lower power set up in the first version, V1, to glue on wings, weak stab attachments and all sorts of landing gear issues it still does hold a place in my heart. Maybe time has allowed you to forget some of that planes weaknesses.

[davegee]

Dave, I wouldn't necessarily change to the 12 blade inrunner. It's expensive and since you fly off of asphalt, I doubt it will help that much. As I said, I only use it for slightly shorter take-offs on grass. In the air, I wager that your 9 blade is just as good.

Last thought on power, what battery are you using? Do I recall you said an HRB? There not bad on actual C, more like a 32C for the 50-100C pack. Admirals are worse (I love MRC, my favorite hobby shop, but the Admirals just don't compare to others-more expensive/weigh more/lower actual C-but they are work horses) as the 6000 Pro 50C is more like 25C. Of course my battery of preference is now the SMC 6200 40C in all EDF's, with an actual C of like 38-39C. In power draw tests with the GT power meter, the SMC's draw about 127 amps/ 3280 watts on the 12 blade inrunner. The HRB's are close at 124 amps/3025 watts but the Admirals are down at 119 amps/2700 watts. Could be the SMC's could give you another 5-10% of thrust (depending on what you're using now), possibly making up for the altitude compared to what you're using. I know, I sound like a lobbyist for SMC, but those batteries are the best I've found for price/weight/actual C. Their 5300mah 40C may work nicely as well and it's only 684 gr. I wanted maximum flight time so went with the 6200's, although I would have had an easier time balancing at 100mm with the heavy 3D cockpit and pilot with the 5300.

Thanks, Hugh. We'll see how the 9 blade works over the next few weeks. The big concern and issue at this point is to have a flight that is fairly stable without the need for big trim inputs in flight. Hopefully removing the ordnance and pylons will improve this issue. I've been going over all the control throws and control surface positions, and I just can't see that it is that far off to be responsible for the issues we had last week. We'll see what happens.

Cheerss

dave

[Airguardian]

Too bad no Hornets made it to the top this March Mayhem... but I still have an interesting video that I have been working on for a while that you may want to check this weekend... ^^

[Hugh Wiedman]

Too bad no Hornets made it to the top this March Mayhem... but I still have an interesting video that I have been working on for a while that you may want to check this weekend... ^^

Absolutely outstanding video. You are not only an incredibly gifted pilot, but that's by far some of the best scale detailing work I've ever seen on a foamy. Thanks so much for sharing that. I'm even more blown away after seeing how you made your fabulous Hornet look EXACTLY like the real thing. Your photos of it always made it look great, but seeing it close up in the video and how much work you painstakingly put into it to get it that way has left me speechless. I'm in awe of your work. Anything coming up next that you'd like to tease us with?

And definitely too bad no Hornets made it very far this year, as it seems we just got no love from the Hornet Gods!

[jasmith41]

I love this place. Thanks all for the great wisdom-sharing you're doing. I'm just about celebrating my 1-year anniv of my RC flying habit (first flight was by accident...) and i've learned so much from all of you. THANK YOU x3...

[Turbo5efhe]

Hello looking to get the freewing f-18 just wondering what kinds packs you are flying with and what flight times... I have noticed most are flying with 5k packs around the 725g Mark I was hoping to fly around the 870g Mark(6600mah) anybody fly that heavy what do you guys think? I know it comes standard but I hate short flight times

[Dougcarr73]

Hello looking to get the freewing f-18 just wondering what kinds packs you are flying with and what flight times... I have noticed most are flying with 5k packs around the 725g Mark I was hoping to fly around the 870g Mark(6600mah) anybody fly that heavy what do you guys think? I know it comes standard but I hate short flight times

Heavier is better in the FW F-18. I used to fly with the 5k packs and the lighter wing load makes the aircraft a bit more squirrelly in light winds when taking off and landing. With the Admiral 6ks, and the Spektrum 7ks that I personally use I've noted the aircraft is much more stable. I've been very impressed with how it settles in the approach and lands especially when flying in relatively higher winds.

To get the CG right, be sure to remove the battery board and put the receiver on the floor of the foam up front near the nose gear well and place the blue box on the foam in the back near the wall under the battery board. You don't need to secure the blue box, because once you put the battery board back you'll notice its adequately secure when you press all the wiring on top of the box and under the board. You'll then notice the immense space you'll have for any battery setup. I actually have two FW F-18s. One with the stock power system and the other that I fly on 10s, which confirms, it flies better heavier.

p.s.
The F-18 benefits greatly when you install an Assan anti-side slip steering gyro (https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?...roduct_id=9114). The short wheelbase has caused the wingtips to scrub the ground when oversteering on landing, but that gyro makes the plane track super straight and I have never struck a wing again after installing the gyro.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hello looking to get the freewing f-18 just wondering what kinds packs you are flying with and what flight times... I have noticed most are flying with 5k packs around the 725g Mark I was hoping to fly around the 870g Mark(6600mah) anybody fly that heavy what do you guys think? I know it comes standard but I hate short flight times

Agree with Dougcarr73 , put the RX under the battery tray and removed the BB so you can place the battery as far aft as you need. The manual CG suggests 88mm, if memory serves me. For me, that's too nose heavy and I prefer it around 100mm back, although some others go to 110m. I'm flying with the SMC 6200 40C packs which weigh in at 814 gr and get 5 minutes of flight time, more if I cruise it lazily around (but what's the fun in that). I also using the AR637T RX in the front under the floor boards and a remote all the way in the back. Gains are relatively higher than I would have initially thought was possible, but it's rock solid. 45/50/55 flaps up, 75/80/85 take-off flaps and 85/90/90 landing flaps. I have 2 F-18's and redid the cockpit with LB's 3D design and added a 1/10 scale full body pilot so my cockpit is about 250 gr heavier than the stock, which required keeping all the electronics out of the way and getting the SMC back far enough to achieve my CG (along with a couple pieces of lead in the elevator bays and the extra weight of the 12 blade inrunner and AB's). But doing that with all the electronics makes for a very nice and clean setup, something I try with every aircraft. Assuming you leave the cockpit stock and don't add any extra weight redoing it, I see no reason why an 870gr 6600 pack wouldn't do nicely.

BTW, 870 gr for a 6600 pack is relatively heavy, what pack are you using. I know the heavier the pack, usually the higher the actual C, but the SMC's test out as one of the highest actual tested C and the 6200 weighs only 814 gr. I also use their 8100 mah 20C packs in my F-16 and those weigh 904 gr and actually test out to 25C (still higher than HRB 50C's, any Admiral 50C, Roaring Top 70C, etc.). I fly off grass so initial thrust is the most important factor for me and even the 8100 on the 12 blade 1835Kv inrunner I have in all my 90mm EDF's pull high enough amps/watts on it to perform quite well.

[Nutter]

Great thread guys, it was very helpful to read while building my 18.

Some details of my turbine conversion for those interested… it flies very nicely!

Xicoy X45
BigboyRC conversion kit with 3D printed tank and bifurcated pipe.
Hitec5085 elevator servos.

Chris.

[Elbee]

Great thread guys, Chris.

NT, Welcome to Hobby Squawk, Sir. Great modification, simply amazing. The fuel tank is a very clever idea. Best, LB

[Airguardian]

I've seen plenty of video and heard accounts from folks such as Hugh and Airguardian that have no trouble with this model which baffles me all the more.

Well, that may be an overstatement... from all my fleet of EDFs, this F-18 is clearly the trickiest of all to make come back in one piece and it's easily the one with my highest accident rate.
I have had plenty of crash landings and quite a few stall-crashes too. At the moment my F-18 has the fuselage torn in half awaiting repair work. It's not an easy jet to fly.

I would blame that mostly on a too high wing loading and the overall aircraft design. The older F-18 being EPS (hence much lighter) and featuring thrust vectoring must have been much easier to control than this one.

Absolutely outstanding video. You are not only an incredibly gifted pilot, but that's by far some of the best scale detailing work I've ever seen on a foamy. Thanks so much for sharing that. I'm even more blown away after seeing how you made your fabulous Hornet look EXACTLY like the real thing. Your photos of it always made it look great, but seeing it close up in the video and how much work you painstakingly put into it to get it that way has left me speechless. I'm in awe of your work.

Thank you so much Hugh! (I'm blushing!)

Anything coming up next that you'd like to tease us with?

Well, I will try to make the part 2 soon enough, where I go over the small nightmare of making the decals fit and all that.

In addition to that, looks like I'm finally getting ready to kickstart my Su-47 project so... there's that! :p

Hello looking to get the freewing f-18 just wondering what kinds packs you are flying with and what flight times... I have noticed most are flying with 5k packs around the 725g Mark I was hoping to fly around the 870g Mark(6600mah) anybody fly that heavy what do you guys think? I know it comes standard but I hate short flight times

Probably doable but wouldn't recommend it. The Hornet is tricky enough as it is to make it unnecessarily heavy.
For the most part I've found mine flies better with lighter packs (660-700g) and the flight time barely suffers from it. Consider a lighter plane also requires less energy to maneuver and move around.

[Turbo5efhe]

Great thread guys, it was very helpful to read while building my 18.

Some details of my turbine conversion for those interested… it flies very nicely!

Xicoy X45
BigboyRC conversion kit with 3D printed tank and bifurcated pipe.
Hitec5085 elevator servos.

Chris.

Hey I just put together my
freewing f-18 today and am contemplating to turbine it where did you get the conversion kit?

[jetpltrich]

Anyone have the HD paint code grey for touch ups?

Rich

[yf22raptor]

Just finishing up my paint on my F/A 18
then installing my turbine conversion as well
big boy rc on Facebook sell the conversion kits.

[Elbee]

Just finishing up my paint on my F/A 18

YR, Great livery choice. Is that one of the "Aggressor" Schemes? Nicely done in any case. Best, LB

[rcflyerct]

Agree with Dougcarr73 , put the RX under the battery tray and removed the BB so you can place the battery as far aft as you need. The manual CG suggests 88mm, if memory serves me. For me, that's too nose heavy and I prefer it around 100mm back, although some others go to 110m. I'm flying with the SMC 6200 40C packs which weigh in at 814 gr and get 5 minutes of flight time, more if I cruise it lazily around (but what's the fun in that). I also using the AR637T RX in the front under the floor boards and a remote all the way in the back. Gains are relatively higher than I would have initially thought was possible, but it's rock solid. 45/50/55 flaps up, 75/80/85 take-off flaps and 85/90/90 landing flaps. I have 2 F-18's and redid the cockpit with LB's 3D design and added a 1/10 scale full body pilot so my cockpit is about 250 gr heavier than the stock, which required keeping all the electronics out of the way and getting the SMC back far enough to achieve my CG (along with a couple pieces of lead in the elevator bays and the extra weight of the 12 blade inrunner and AB's). But doing that with all the electronics makes for a very nice and clean setup, something I try with every aircraft. Assuming you leave the cockpit stock and don't add any extra weight redoing it, I see no reason why an 870gr 6600 pack wouldn't do nicely.

BTW, 870 gr for a 6600 pack is relatively heavy, what pack are you using. I know the heavier the pack, usually the higher the actual C, but the SMC's test out as one of the highest actual tested C and the 6200 weighs only 814 gr. I also use their 8100 mah 20C packs in my F-16 and those weigh 904 gr and actually test out to 25C (still higher than HRB 50C's, any Admiral 50C, Roaring Top 70C, etc.). I fly off grass so initial thrust is the most important factor for me and even the 8100 on the 12 blade 1835Kv inrunner I have in all my 90mm EDF's pull high enough amps/watts on it to perform quite well.

Hugh...may I ask what AS3X sensitivity you use (1-2 or 4). Thanks!!! Wes

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh...may I ask what AS3X sensitivity you use (1-2 or 4). Thanks!!! Wes

Wes,
I'm only using sensitivity of 1, not that sophisticated to use anything else. I also use priorities of 150. Currently using the following gains on the AR637T (rate only, no heading and haven't used SAFE, not that there is anything wrong with it, just have never set it up-although a flying buddy who is a great pilot uses it for any emergency situations and on landing, so may have to give it a try one day) and those gains are (R/P/Y) with flaps up 45/50/55 and on take-off flaps 60/70/80 and landing flaps 70/80/90, 3 rate profiles tied to flap switch and gain adjust in flight set to TX knob H at 100% so I can turn it down if needed, but have never had any oscillations there. Rarely flying full throttle for a high speed pass so I'm rarely at the top end of the speed envelope to experience any oscillations.

[jasmith41]

Wes,
I'm only using sensitivity of 1, not that sophisticated to use anything else. I also use priorities of 150. Currently using the following gains on the AR637T (rate only, no heading and haven't used SAFE, not that there is anything wrong with it, just have never set it up-although a flying buddy who is a great pilot uses it for any emergency situations and on landing, so may have to give it a try one day) and those gains are (R/P/Y) with flaps up 45/50/55 and on take-off flaps 60/70/80 and landing flaps 70/80/90, 3 rate profiles tied to flap switch and gain adjust in flight set to TX knob H at 100% so I can turn it down if needed, but have never had any oscillations there. Rarely flying full throttle for a high speed pass so I'm rarely at the top end of the speed envelope to experience any oscillations.

Hugh, I'm getting some oscillation on a couple of my EDFs (80mm F5 and small F8 Corsair Freewings), i probably have my gains set (fixed) at 20/20/20. Would you suggest increasing them to reduce / eliminate that? I don't really understand this all that well yet and appreciate your input...
I know you've written extensively lately on this topic so I apologize for the redundant question, but I"m gathering from your writing that my settings are too low... possibly correct...?

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh, I'm getting some oscillation on a couple of my EDFs (80mm F5 and small F8 Corsair Freewings), i probably have my gains set (fixed) at 20/20/20. Would you suggest increasing them to reduce / eliminate that? I don't really understand this all that well yet and appreciate your input...
I know you've written extensively lately on this topic so I apologize for the redundant question, but I"m gathering from your writing that my settings are too low... possibly correct...?

If you're getting oscillations, the gains are too high. First you'll need to determine which surface is oscillating, most likely it will be the ailerons as I've found those oscillate before the elevator and lastly the rudder. Gyro oscillation on the ailerons makes it waggle rolling left right and gets worse the faster you go. Since you said the gains are fixed and not adjustable, I assume you are not able to put gains on a TX knob to adjust in the air, which is not a problem. As I said, the oscillation will occur the faster the plane goes, so when it oscillates, if you slow down it should cease. If it oscillates at all speeds, then the gyro may not be the issue (loose control horns/rod/servo or even a bad servo). I would change the gains to 15/20/20, assuming it is the aileron surface and it only happens at higher speeds. Generally, the faster the aircraft and the larger the control surfaces will require lower gain settings. I'm kind of surprised you're getting oscillations at what I would consider low gain settings (is this on a spektrum RX or with a stand alone gyro) since I'm using at least double that on all my EDFs with no oscillations. I even have the spektrum RX's in my 60" Extreme Flight planes which have extremely large control surfaces, but with those I am flying a lot slower than an EDF and use gains in the 25% range, except in some stall mode settings with gains up to 70%, but then the aircraft is really not moving. Dial down the gains (only on the oscillating surface first), take it up and see how it goes.

[rcflyerct]

Wes,
I'm only using sensitivity of 1, not that sophisticated to use anything else. I also use priorities of 150. Currently using the following gains on the AR637T (rate only, no heading and haven't used SAFE, not that there is anything wrong with it, just have never set it up-although a flying buddy who is a great pilot uses it for any emergency situations and on landing, so may have to give it a try one day) and those gains are (R/P/Y) with flaps up 45/50/55 and on take-off flaps 60/70/80 and landing flaps 70/80/90, 3 rate profiles tied to flap switch and gain adjust in flight set to TX knob H at 100% so I can turn it down if needed, but have never had any oscillations there. Rarely flying full throttle for a high speed pass so I'm rarely at the top end of the speed envelope to experience any oscillations.

Thanks!!!