Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Hi,
Who said I would use Castle Esc for saw? I have one but I also have the Genius Steller from Ralf Helbing, which allows much more than the Castle steller. Sensor operation complete. Variable timing according to requirements with previously selectable timing angles at previously adjustable speeds. Inductivity consideration. etc. that would go beyond the scope of knowledge here. Your wound motors have the same problem as all the others. You don't have enough iron in the stator tooth. You have to compensate for this with a larger, heavier engine. None of you are doing the test of driving the motor externally, putting all the connections together in a short circuit and then measuring the speed and the short circuit current flowing. Plot the data in the diagram and understand the curve that is created. That's your mistake, you're poking around in ignorance somewhere.
and to your stupid statements: I am a Christian, trained by the Jesuits in Munich.
I promised Jim that I would support you and help you. If you keep getting it wrong when you write whether you have actually tested it or whether the EMF is cleaner than other motors, we know that the motors are operated much better with professional controllers than with the model builders.
I have a very good circle of friends with whom I meet regularly, we also organize the SAW on the regatta course every year, etc. much more. The fact that I write in a few forums is just my hobby to support and explain.
The only lonlyone here is YOU , look how much you write how much time do you spend writing , nobody read it.

Happy Amps Christian

Christian
www.lcmctroy.com
From:ch.lucas@gmx.net
To:Hugh Harget

Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:59 PM

Hi Hubert,


I think that you have knowledge in many disciplines that I don't. I'm not an electronics engineer, I've only built simple electronic circuits from a plan. But I know about the many possibilities that electronics offer. But believe me, I don't care at all what the model makers out there think. I say what I think and have shown often enough how things need to be done better. What do you mean, how did Hans Lehner and I work together to make our motors better than those of our competitors? Of course we acquired knowledge, but we always checked this knowledge ourselves and built model machines and then measured them extensively. Look, today nobody would etch metal sheets themselves. We made motor sheets from 0.2mm thick Mumetal, the photo exposure template and coated the sheet, exposed it and then etched out the sheets. Then we insulated them thinly, stacked them, glued them and then wound them. These were all collector machines, the windings had to be glued together to ensure they were speed and temperature resistant. The collectors were covered with thin anelixed aluminum rings so that they did not fly apart and were better cooled. We turned our battery cell housings to make them thinner and save weight. The cells were then pushed and pressed lengthways to improve the contacts. Hans worked for Rohde & Schwarz, a very successful electronics company worldwide. He built tiny receivers and servo electronics for us. I built tiny gears and servo motors. At the time, no manufacturer was selling servos that small and fast.


I can see that you are made of exactly the same stuff as we were. You are still younger and still have time to get it done.

I am still working on developing new machines at Magnet Motor GmbH and the DLR. That is a completely different story than model engines. The industry has different requirements that must be met. You know from your jobs at Daimler, Wolfspeed, etc. what high-quality work is. I somehow wanted to show the model makers that there are other companies that value my work very much. Okon and his associates have never understood how to work in a highly professional field and be successful. You are well on your way there and I wish you all the best with all my heart to be successful. I don't mean you any harm, I just want to tell you what I have done in my life to be successful. That is why I write you things like that by email and not in the forum where the ill-wishers who are not at all well-disposed towards us hang out.

They just want to cause trouble without any real knowledge.

However, because of my work, I have very little time for writing on the Internet and especially for producing these ideas. So it takes me quite a while at the moment until I can show something. But I'm not afraid that I won't be able to show it at all. I've had enough success in my life for that, I don't care if anyone else is interested. I'll show it, whether someone makes something out of it is in their hands.


Greetings, Christian


Gruß Christian

---

[Clugh]

I just decided to bypass waiting on you to post more lies EE! and show them in your own words who you are. And your level of deception on open forums.

Please stop harassing me with childish nonsense so I can help people you do not want me to.


The motors dont produce a sinus and the single layers winds do not either neither does the 7050 toqstar. You talk about a donkey wind but it performs better for the speeders than a Delta which less efficient in the part load operaion with the yge I'm sure.

[Clugh]

Christian
www.lcmctroy.com
From:ch.lucas@gmx.net
To:jan275029@yahoo.com

Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 4:05 PM

Hi Hugh,
In principle you are right. There is not only one way with thicker irons. The thicker iron also needs better magnets or flux guide wedge and Hallbach magnet systems for flux compression. But that's not the problem. We can also set the current amplitude to the voltage amplitude and thus the 3rd harmonic is reduced, flattened and the machine generates higher torques. You can design it like that. With the earlier machines that work with flux compression, MagnetMotor had precisely calculated slot widths that forced it this way. Then more iron makes sense, but you also need the magnetic field to fill this situation. Brings more flux into the stator tooth. The Lehner is calculated for sine, which practically no one has. But Lehner earns money in the industry and they have optimized that.
When I'm out of the hospital I'll finish the little Lehner AL, which is very light for performance with the Hallbach system, CFRP bell and no motor shaft.
I'll send you the first pictures of it.

[Clugh]

The Lehner "Calculated for sine" ends up setting the record with a 6 step open loop TRAP DRIVE!!!!!


Got ya again! 2 times!


EE! with the vast scope of knowledge in electronics no one can match


Hubert

[Clugh]

There Ralph you have the answer to your question about his electrical engineering credentials. i guess that explains why he is here arguing with me.

Good luck he is truly crazy. All that about his absent electrical engineer degree was written just a month ago. Now I dont know anything and I'm a donkey for meeting a customers specific winding. request



You all there know what hes has been telling you about running the hall sensors. I'm just telling him and you all it will not work that way. At all. You see the result of a six step drive with a Lehner because the world record was reset with it. It is an open loop six step drive designed for BLDC not BLAC sinus motors. Nothing posted will change that. No one uses a sinus for high speed so why he post it right it in the speeder section asking about 50mm machines for speed runs in your forum doesn't make sense. He says now it wasn't for SAW.

so only he knows what he is trying to prove there or here then by bringing up a sinus and telling me what i need to be looking at.

I dont need to look at anything but my damn scope so yes crazy a hell and is the one that needs to look at something because he was wrong.


Hubert

[Clugh]

In principle what i was right about is if thicker iron was the only way how does the Flussperren work because it has less iron so you see he is not the grail . Tooth notching on the q axis teeth will also increase torque output that also removes iron Ralph. Please for your own sake in private away from a forum wind a hybrid and try slot wedges. it may help you to get rid of your problem there since your efficiency is already at the same level as the 41 series. 😀 PLEASE try a slot wedge on the single layer machines.

Id like to see you succeed in this proxy war at this point.

You can also create asymmetric tooth tips and gain efficiency. Study hard and it wont be difficult to create another rat trap. Apparently he didn't even understand what i posted to him about the necessity of certain harmonics to create a sinus waveform and that the hybrid wind attenuate those said harmonics that would be responsible for its creation.

You use iron filled PLA to make your wedges. Vary the thickness and watch your rpm and load amperages at the prop to find the perfect set.

He is the electrical expert but my efficiency is considerably higher +3 than his and it works at a operational point of 141 amperes where saturation of the iron will never occur. Its the perfect winding for an 1/8th scale hydro. Christian does not own a 1/8th scale hydro in reality. Hs boat records from the early 80s we set with 7 cells nicads out of small boats made from Styrofoam the don't draw even 500 watts. He has no modern record with brushless direct current power systems. it's all so irrelevant to today or how the drive and wind actually works. I'm not a hobby competition competitor with 20 people at a lake or an airfield thinking they are gods gift with their little models. I'm an electrical engineer that truly works in the field.

He says he loves Holles calculator so you can compare these things there just plug in our constants!!! Both the Lehner and the HK had much lower dc resistance.



And watch it hit the fan.

Ich weiß nicht, was er denkt. Er glaubt, diese alten Aufzeichnungen erlauben ihm, seinen kleinen Schwanz jedem in jedem Forum zu zeigen..

Hubert

[Clugh]

He says the YY is a donkey wind but all the 41 series outrunner is is a delta. What's so special about it? They are paying me to tear the PYROS deltas down and replace them with the YY. Its so sad he thinks it represents me because Brenner went through hell to get me to wind it because I told him there is something better. I'm not going to keep posting private emails to show my character is not to lie on a forum. I dont care that much bruh. Believe what you want but I have those emails. What the poster doesn't realize is that the 14 poler I have shown him wrapped with the inner deltas for hybrid operation was left here with me by Brenner drives to do just that. That would work better with their 6 step drive from ADAM which the poster knows nothing at all about or the necessary brake pwm and timing settings etc. for the contra drive to perform correctly off the throttle. The problem is the thermally coupled YY I wound for him which was a 5+5 not Berts 6 + 4 runs better than anything they ever had. P.O.C.B.O.I. used different materials and winding coil geography to rebuild the motors. And I was nice enough to show that to the hobbyist. Its donkey according to him but it resulted in 800 mah less used per P25 run than the COTS Delta or Berts version which also outperformed COTS delta by alot..

In transformers and power electronics typically the WYE is preferred for higher voltages than a delta. Thats industry and most EE's know it! and who the real Donkey is.

For my motor there is video of it running on a stand with datalogging, There is video of it being flown in its intended application very successfully. I have provided many of the top pilots in the sport performance evaluations. I have also provided measured constants so they have the ability to put the motor in the calculator of their choice to evaluate it's performance. They know exactly what they are supposed to get with me and I've done everything I could to provide them that. I actually care deeply if it fails. I've shared every bit openly with others and never have to.

My passion is research and really to help people out that's why I don't need to call you a donkey if you dont believe what i tell you and you are wrong about the waveform a wind creates.

You make yourself look bad cap.

You have vast knowledge but no expertise in electronics and no electrical engineering degree.

you wrong about the waveform
you wrong about the drive
you wrong about why I wind the YY for F3A
you wrong I haven't built many direct current h bridge inverters from a 1000 years ago.

I have shown you without a doubt you are wrong on all these things so what is next with the fallacy?

TTYL
Hubert

[Chxpress]

The magnetic force () of an iron core coil depends on several factors, including the geometric dimensions of the iron core, the number of turns, the current intensity, and the magnetic properties of the core. A simplified formula that takes these factors into account is:

Explanation of the formula:
• : Magnetic force (in Newtons, ).
• : Magnetic flux density (in Tesla, ) generated by the coil.
• : Cross-sectional area of the iron core (in ).
• : Magnetic field constant ().
• : Relative permeability of the iron core (dimensionless).

The magnetic flux density is determined by the coil and the iron core and can be calculated as:

Where:
• : Number of turns of the coil.
• : Current intensity through the coil (in amperes, ).
• : Magnetic length of the iron core (in meters, ).

Considering dimensions:

The dimensions of the iron core (such as and ) affect both the flux density and the resulting magnetic force . The force becomes proportional to the area and the squared flux density , but it decreases if the core has a higher relative permeability.

Practical application:

1. Determine the geometric dimensions of the iron core (, ).

2. Calculate from the properties of the coil and core.

3. Insert , , and into the first equation to calculate the force.

If the core is not closed (e.g. there is a gap), the influence of the air gap must also be considered, as this greatly increases the magnetic resistance.

The magnetic force () of an iron-core coil depends on several factors, including the geometric dimensions of the iron core, the number of turns, the current strength, and the magnetic properties of the core. A simplified formula that takes these factors into account is:

Explanation of the formula:
• : magnetic force (in Newtons, ).
• : Magnetic flux density (in Tesla, ) generated by the coil.
• : Cross-sectional area of the iron core (in ).
• : Magnetic field constant ().
• : Relative permeability of the iron core (dimensionless).

The magnetic flux density is determined by the coil and the iron core and can be calculated as:

Where:
• : Number of turns of the coil.
• : Current through the coil (in amperes, ).
• : Magnetic length of the iron core (in meters, ).

Considering dimensions:

The dimensions of the iron core (such as and ) affect both the flux density and the resulting magnetic force . The force becomes proportional to the area and the square of the flux density , but it decreases if the core has a higher relative permeability.

Practical application:
1. Determine the geometric dimensions of the iron core (, ).
2. Calculate from the properties of the coil and the core.
3. Insert , , and into the first equation to calculate the force.

If the core is not closed (e.g. there is a gap), the influence of the air gap must also be taken into account, as this greatly increases the magnetic resistance.

If both coils have the same number of turns, current and core material type but different core dimensions, then the coil with the larger iron core will produce a larger magnetic force. Here's why:

1. Dependence of magnetic force on area :

The magnetic force is proportional to the cross-sectional area of the iron core as in the formula:

• The coil with the larger iron core has a larger cross-sectional area .

• Since the magnetic flux density remains the same for the same current and number of turns, the larger cross-sectional area will directly result in a larger magnetic force.

2. Magnetic flux density :

The magnetic flux density depends on the properties of the coil and core:

• Since both coils have the same core material type (), number of turns () and current () remains the same for both coils.
• However, the larger iron core has a larger cross-sectional area so the magnetic flux is also larger.

3. Relationship between flux and force:

The magnetic force is directly proportional to the magnetic flux, which in turn depends on the area. Therefore, the coil with the larger iron core will produce a higher force.

Conclusion:

The coil with the larger iron core produces the greater magnetic force under the same conditions, since the force depends directly on the cross-sectional area of the core.

i have not read all the post .

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

The magnetic force () of an iron core coil depends on several factors, including the geometric dimensions of the iron core, the number of turns, the current intensity, and the magnetic properties of the core. A simplified formula that takes these factors into account is:

Explanation of the formula:
• : Magnetic force (in Newtons, ).
• : Magnetic flux density (in Tesla, ) generated by the coil.
• : Cross-sectional area of the iron core (in ).
• : Magnetic field constant ().
• : Relative permeability of the iron core (dimensionless).

The magnetic flux density is determined by the coil and the iron core and can be calculated as:

Where:
• : Number of turns of the coil.
• : Current intensity through the coil (in amperes, ).
• : Magnetic length of the iron core (in meters, ).

Considering dimensions:

The dimensions of the iron core (such as and ) affect both the flux density and the resulting magnetic force . The force becomes proportional to the area and the squared flux density , but it decreases if the core has a higher relative permeability.

Practical application:

1. Determine the geometric dimensions of the iron core (, ).

2. Calculate from the properties of the coil and core.

3. Insert , , and into the first equation to calculate the force.

If the core is not closed (e.g. there is a gap), the influence of the air gap must also be considered, as this greatly increases the magnetic resistance.

The magnetic force () of an iron-core coil depends on several factors, including the geometric dimensions of the iron core, the number of turns, the current strength, and the magnetic properties of the core. A simplified formula that takes these factors into account is:

Explanation of the formula:
• : magnetic force (in Newtons, ).
• : Magnetic flux density (in Tesla, ) generated by the coil.
• : Cross-sectional area of the iron core (in ).
• : Magnetic field constant ().
• : Relative permeability of the iron core (dimensionless).

The magnetic flux density is determined by the coil and the iron core and can be calculated as:

Where:
• : Number of turns of the coil.
• : Current through the coil (in amperes, ).
• : Magnetic length of the iron core (in meters, ).

Considering dimensions:

The dimensions of the iron core (such as and ) affect both the flux density and the resulting magnetic force . The force becomes proportional to the area and the square of the flux density , but it decreases if the core has a higher relative permeability.

Practical application:
1. Determine the geometric dimensions of the iron core (, ).
2. Calculate from the properties of the coil and the core.
3. Insert , , and into the first equation to calculate the force.

If the core is not closed (e.g. there is a gap), the influence of the air gap must also be taken into account, as this greatly increases the magnetic resistance.

If both coils have the same number of turns, current and core material type but different core dimensions, then the coil with the larger iron core will produce a larger magnetic force. Here's why:

1. Dependence of magnetic force on area :

The magnetic force is proportional to the cross-sectional area of the iron core as in the formula:

• The coil with the larger iron core has a larger cross-sectional area .

• Since the magnetic flux density remains the same for the same current and number of turns, the larger cross-sectional area will directly result in a larger magnetic force.

2. Magnetic flux density :

The magnetic flux density depends on the properties of the coil and core:

• Since both coils have the same core material type (), number of turns () and current () remains the same for both coils.
• However, the larger iron core has a larger cross-sectional area so the magnetic flux is also larger.

3. Relationship between flux and force:

The magnetic force is directly proportional to the magnetic flux, which in turn depends on the area. Therefore, the coil with the larger iron core will produce a higher force.

Conclusion:

The coil with the larger iron core produces the greater magnetic force under the same conditions, since the force depends directly on the cross-sectional area of the core.

i have not read all the post .

Happy Amps Christian

Thats all beautiful and changes nothing that has been posted. Youre telling the EE that already knows these things. Who also knows that he can gain torque by removing iron or pm in the right places.

The 2260 still runs with a trap and the single layer FSCW 12N10P single layer waveform is still not a sinus and your post doesn't answer that or why you think can call someone a donkey and use racial epithet and don't even have a EE degree like they do. It doesn't excuse you from being wrong in 1oo ways when they simply tried to tell you the facts.

without widening a single tooth you can also use more of the available iron in any geometry if you attenuates the sources of the iron and pm loss altogether which is the slot harmonics and slot wedges and or the right wind can do that without sacrificing torque so if you know you know that would raise the knee.

You have done all the things you think are the milk and you got 93.5% just like Ralph with big wire. At lower rpms your litz coils have no real advantage and your moment of inertia is higher with your rotor. You designed it for sinus operation which is a real waste since its running with 6 step drives and they make more power and torque with less ripple than a sinus especially with a trap motor designed for it....

on the subject matter I'm still correct.



Your prick still isnt the longest in the motor hand winding rooms no matter how much hell you raise. Ask Holle.

without widening a single tooth you can simply direct flux away from the Q axis and into the D axis which will raise the torque output. Do you need pasted pages from someone elses work to believe it and calm your annoying self down?

You know the noise the single layer makes or you wouldnt have 20 magnet segments on ya pm to protect them and be scared to tell the forum how to achieve it but i already know how to.

You dont think i see you pick and choose what to answer like its a real secret LOL! i just ask playing games with your invested vendor self all up in the technical sections of the forums with SELLING as your main goal.....

You are transparent to me. I see right through you and what motivates you to even show up to the parties P Diddy! You are here to exploit American wallets so you can maintain the Ferraris maintenance and stay a level above them.

you see how special you think you are as you say EVERYONE else does it wrong but you.

Hey! do you ever go back and read yourself and the things you say?

Goodness....


Hubert

[Clugh]

We been through all this before and I invited you here because they ran you off the German site with this self aggrandizing nonsense no one wants to hear versus teh data. It isn't about the motors or the drives its about you as a person. You too much.

Andreas and Hanz do not carry on so and its their product. You can be sure the speed pilots in Germany really have no reason to listen to you now. They know all about your EE degree now or lack there of. You call them donkeys so its fair what they do to you. I wont help you any more Christian.

U never see the manufactures that own the companies act that way

U toxic and even revert to racial epithet towards your "friends" in a technical debate about an electric motor! Nothing excuses it. Its extremely hard to like you. I truly understand where Ralph is coming from now. I already did before 😶 but this is truly eye opening. You crazy man. I don't know what your problem is boss.

I've defended you how many times? No more! And I knew the truth about the paperwork..... you can front for the forum but it is no way if you call yourself a man you feel good about yourself right now.

Dwelling in an environment where fallacy is king and rolls unchecked for 20 years has made you crazy playa....


Hubert

[Clugh]

The application and actual working point is also relevant. You cry about iron saturation but that only comes into play if the applications load point is there. If its not what happens at saturation points is negligible. You post that more iron surface area is needed and that true but simultaneously he is a donkey if he builds a larger engine. That's cap !! He cannot exactly have it both ways and that's why overall there is no blaring different in performance for the vast differences in design between a 41 series Lehner and a well packed 4225 scorpion. Does the child prodigy track the practical approach here? You may have better fill but overall he has as much if not more copper overall because his slots hold more. The latter actually has better field weakening potential too. His magnets are not as well protected but his rotor weighs less and actually works better with a BLDC six step drive like a castle or YGE at WOT if you claim yours drive a sinus bemf?

How will you get out of this or the exact same efficiency numbers as him with a pasted paper or calling me a donkey? Your engine also weighs more than his with the special rotor and does not turn faster at the prop for the same consumption and that is just the facts. Who can you be mad at about it? It is your design and you claim you directed the design of the scorpion as well and taught Ralph everything so what is this really about? Have you thought about all those statements deeply while you acting ignorant on a forum???

You ran your experiments on both your engines designed by you and they both have a max eta of 93.5% Seems to like Ralph listened to your directions very well. They created a good motor you could self wind on and you have a COTS version with the same eta. What else do you want????

see you crazy!!!!

LOL!

The donkey...
Hubert

[Clugh]

Now your writing Ralph private pms....LOL!

Think he trust you? make sure you show him your emails about him too.. LOL

You are nothing but trouble buddy....

all for the sales.....

Have a good day... i can see everything you are doing. U crazy cap!
Hubert...

[Chxpress]

Hi ,
yea all have moore slot aera but you all have only a mad copperfill factor . You all have a early synclos , very engenius .
you do only a copyshop , that s all. Be happy donky .

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Here is a castle commutating? Is it a sinus Ralph?



Hubert

[Clugh]

Here is another shot of your 50 series HK in a single layer wye wye... IS IT A SINUS???

He;s really upset right now.... because i have his numbers and his antics down packed and you see this is still a BLDC signal who can you trust???? I never circumvented power ditto security and never tried and you know coz i told you to your face i dont care for you or anyone that thrives with epithet. what's new in his private emails?....please remarry and go home.....

There is no synchronization loss at 141 amperes here. I'm not the one looking to fit halls to my screechy odd outrunner motor that wont start or brake well with the castle because the rotor is heavy its a trap drive "AND HIS ROTOR GENRATES A SINUS" ~CL~

I have that video of starting and braking with Tylers castle with audio ....



He wrote you a PM just now and still talks about your low iron engine Ralph he designed on the open forum. Is it a lie?


Hubert

[Clugh]

"Its mystic"

The single layers deltas BLDC signature is even more pronounced This is not a sinus.....


The Donkey....
Hubert

[Clugh]

Please don't leave... Come back. The Donkey from America wants to show you a few things about the hybrid wind you have no experience with you crazy old man.


I want you to see without fallacy how ignorant you are in front of the entire forum I invited you to because they ran you off In Germany for being so damn crazy and disruptive by condescending off topic post that have nothing to do with the subject matter.

They are tired of the fallacy they cannot fly....u can't grasp it. The fallacy and name calling won't work here with a real engineer. Ill just match it with the data like I have already....... I don't have to engage in THAT at all......

Will "donkey" convince the hobbyist that you know what you are talking about on the subject matter?



Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

So yes now they open back up in Germany and open the thread that Christian locked with my help with non fallacy. Now go in there Christian and see what happens....

No "Hubert knows his way around" will protect you now. Imma let them eat because you are no better.......

Love the remote response that you all are reading donkey here LOL! AND how crazy he has become and you also know about the EE paperwork he possesses now.



Crisco they gone fry you....

Astonishing level at T-Motor F40 V | Page 7 | RC-Network.de

If you are as good as America then your forum would be open to me. You are all here anyway....and we allow it.


Hubert

[Clugh]

I also hope you both work on not using racial epithet in technical debates and that you all not call him names as he does you or me but that you learn to simply show him show him the data and move on. You can see if you dont feed an evil spirit it will go somewhere else and try to eat. you all have been quiet so you see that spirit needed oxygen to survive. it hoped to find some shine here.

Nope not hardly

You all have a lovely day
Hubert!

[Clugh]

Ok so here are the constants taken at 15 degrees timing on the castle Hydra Ice HV 200 v2. on 4s lipo

14 Pole Pyro 600 10 turn YY 18 Awg Remington 240C
Kv 817
Io 1.3 amps at 15.8 volts
Rm 15.8 milliohms

On a less that full pack at 8 s lipo (31.3 volts) it turned the 12 X 4 APC 18,185 rpm @ 107.9 amps for 3175 watts