Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

If they learned to used the tools their smarter friends give them they would be alot further along in understanding the power of Idle current and their AC performance. You can see in Holle's calculator as a comparative tool what happens if you can keep the dc resistance the same while lowering the idle current. Now a fool only looks at the bearings effect and not all the cumulative things one could do in concert to drop 2.7 amps in idle current. Its the same thing with thermally conductive compounds that lower the working winding temperature which keeps the efficiency higher across the board. In the Tekin test they dropped nearly an amp of idle current with just the bearing. That has nothing to do with balancing the rotor, slot wedges, bearing shielding or a hybrid wind that significantly improves the ac performance. Its easily possible to reduce the AC even more. A 2 % efficiency difference is quite substantial at these level of efficiency.

How many times do you need to reread the 2% increase in efficiency is actually an increase of about 1.5 fold more throughput power. That's significant. Doings things like pm segmentation takes no larger nibbles at it but that nibbles more money to manufacture than to do things like a bearing upgrade, TC potting, or a new wind.

[Clugh]

Then what will amaze you is post like this by a real Engineer on the German site that gets totally ignored despite its critical relevance to the motors perfromance. Rember okon is also around the same empiric truth.

If they believe they couldn't benefit from a few more efficiency points it is what it is....

[Clugh]

They don't speak alot on post like this....from the EE on the German site.




look at the time of my post and his activity....

He is on point like clock work.

[Clugh]

This is data from ralphs 5040!

If they learned to used the tools their smarter friends give them they would be alot further along in understanding the power of Idle current and their AC performance. You can see in Holle's calculator as a comparative tool what happens if you can keep the dc resistance the same while lowering the idle current. Now a fool only looks at the bearings effect and not all the cumulative things one could do in concert to drop 2.7 amps in idle current. Its the same thing with thermally conductive compounds that lower the working winding temperature which keeps the efficiency higher across the board. In the Tekin test they dropped over an amp of idle current with just the bearing upgrade. That has nothing to do with balancing the rotor, slot wedges, bearing shielding or a hybrid wind that significantly improves the ac performance. Its easily possible to reduce the AC even more. A 2 % efficiency difference is quite substantial at these level of efficiency.

How many times do you need to reread the 2% increase in efficiency is actually an increase of about 1.5 fold more throughput power. That's significant. Doings things like pm segmentation takes no larger nibbles at it but that nibbles more money to manufacture than to do things like a bearing upgrade, TC potting, or a new wind.

For comparisons Take the formula
ηmax= (1 minus the square root of Idle current divided by stall current)<sup>2

so in the scenario the two efficiencies are 94 and 95 percent</sup>

General case

Going from efficiency ηold to efficiency ηnew

would give an increase in maximum power motor can handle by factor N

N = (1 - ηold) / (1 - ηnew)

so (1-.94) / (1- .95) = a factor of 1.2

That measly +1 percent in Eta that came from the 2.7 amp drop in Idle current equals 20% more throughput power on the back end. So like the expert in Germany told you, you all can simply ignore the effects a better bearing can bring with just a marginal change in idle currents.

Fallacy isn't nearly as compelling as the mathematics to intelligent people.



Its truly hilarious because according to them they are supposed to be the said authorities on the subject matter


Thanks
Hubert

[Clugh]

Study hard A-boys

[Clugh]

I can also tell you Micha's calculation on Ralph isnt absolutely correct because he derived the KT with no reference to the Kw. The TQ he calculated was if ralphs motor had a winding factor or 100% when it is only 93% in reality. You have to multiply Micha TQ by the winding arrangements Kw for the number . If you visit the Neumotors specification charts you will realize that the Kw is factored into the Torque constant calculation . It is not just based on 1/KV

[Clugh]

LOL!!

So shook he's signed out already so i guess he missed the little bone i just threw him which might raise his Eta calculations slightly. Id think he wants it since Micha, the degreed German EE placed his real ETA under 70% I calculated 69% at max loading by another method so he is very close.


But there is a problem now. Their moderator doesn't want to hear about Hubert so now either he has to come into this room like a man to debate directly or walk on egg shells less he be disciplined for being a forum trouble makers hating on Hugh who isn't on the forum at all..



I truly love the poetic justice.... because you can only lower the DC so much by space restraints of a geometric slot whereas the AC can be manipulated by things as simple as the location of the wire in the slot and the termination.

Lets see how they figure out a way to respond fallacy free to the numbers. Christian's nonsense has been silenced there already today...

[Clugh]

Ralph sagt, die Io-Unterschiede in einem Lager seien leicht zu testen. Also frag ihn, worauf er wartet. Sag ihm, er solle anfangen und die Daten sofort beiseite legen, damit du seine Dummheit und seine Verzerrungen erkennen kannst.

Du weißt ja bereits, dass er die falschen Schmiermittel usw. verwendet. Er hat keines der Spezialmaterialien, die wir hier haben. Seine Schrottkiste ist voller Schrott von Scorpion.

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

That bearing deterioration from shaft currents also raises the Io. A delta motor like the 4125 especially will generate the shaft triplen Christina!

[Clugh]

Wenn ihr euch in Deutschland einfach um eure eigenen Angelegenheiten kümmern würdet, könntet ihr euch den ganzen Ärger mit mir ersparen. Ihr werdet den Stellvertreterkrieg im Moment definitiv nicht gewinnen. Nicht einmal euer eigener Moderator will diesen Unsinn hören!

Sein Test würde nur all die falschen Lager bestätigen, die er in der Vergangenheit ausprobiert hat.

[Clugh]

Congrats

• 
  Christian
  To: me · Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 4:05 PM
  Message Body
  
  
  
  Hi Hugh,
  
  Congratulations on the very good engine for Brenner. The difference in consumption clearly shows that your engine consumes significantly less energy than the previous versions. This will really annoy the doc. Plus the counter-rotating drive, which these idiots didn't understand at all. Especially if the reduction ratios are different, unequal performance is delivered to the propellers. You can use this to accelerate the thrust jet even further with the second propeller. But just a counter-rotating drive alone has advantages because you don't have to take the pull and camber angles into account for the propeller shaft. Usually they run completely straight without any angular offset, which alone results in higher propeller efficiency. Freedom from swirl increases efficiency. etc... These speed fliers have no idea at all.
  I'm sorry about the concave boat tail of Ralf Moser's monoboat. I also believe Ralf that he isn't lying to me. He said that he had the boat checked by John Finch and that the boat complied with the regulations. Last year Ralf drove a different mono boat anyway and I couldn't measure the old Corvus. The new boat does not have a concave stern, but has counter-rotating propellers that are now very close together. It also achieved record speeds, which is running very cool. So long.
  I'm not mad at you, we're all just human.
  These fools of speed pilots now have a F100 class regulation. Only 100 volts are ruled and no size and no weight limit. That's why I wrote to them in the forum that they should get a car engine with a battery and ESC and use it to equip an airplane. I would go. Unfortunately, the idiots don't find it funny at all. You're so stubborn.
  
  Greetings Christian

Its the same dude talking.... here


So it should be very easy for everyone to see when I tell you this someone is Toxic they ARE..

[Clugh]

Hi Tim Moldtmann!!

Here is more beauty from him about the forum and how much he respect you all.



The Idiots

• 
  
  Christian
  
  To: me · Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 2:24 AM
  
  
  Message Body
  
  Hi Hugh,
  
  The speed flyers and their chairmen have a speed flight competition in Ballenstedt / Germany where all possible classes are listed. They now also have 72 volt and 100 volt classes. The Speed Fun class is best, as the models can have 100 volt batteries, can weigh up to 25 kg and there is no maximum wing load limit, which means you can fly with a maximum of small wings, the plane just has to take off. So far so good. I pointed out that with the high voltages, this can not be completely safe, especially if model makers have little experience with electricity. It's not just 100 volts direct voltage, but also 100 volts 3 phase alternating voltage thanks to the controller. Because they ignore such concerns, the head of Speedflieger Thomas Moldtmann simply deleted the thread in a bad manner. These are methods like those from the communist era in the GDR. You can see how the pilots deal with burning speed planes in YouTube videos. And in many videos the heroes don't wear the required helmets either. Okay, everyone can kill themselves however they want. They just think that they don't want to give you the fun of speed flying. But that's not true at all, I'm concerned about the safety of copycats who put together a speed plane without competition and have very little other knowledge. This is not understood.
  Okon is the greatest at covering up. It's hard to understand why the drives keep burning out anyway. Today, electronics are possible that detect any excess current and temperatures of the drives and thus protect the drive. There is no such thing as burning out. Hans Lehner, Uwe Plettenberg etc. have never had blown drives at competitions. I also still have all of my engines that have never burned out. If something burns out, the load is way too high. Without brain.
  
  Greetings Christian
• 
  
  You see they disconect the batteries with the Hands. No save methode. Gruß Christian

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

You see he called you a communist to try to motivate me to dislike you? he is a snake that will play right into the nastiest parts of humanity like racism or political ideologies and he lies on people that have passed away. He is really awful for lies like that and you should do something about it. How many times have I busted his bubble just like this.

The man has a "F" "N" problem!

Hast du ihn noch nicht satt? Mann, tu etwas dagegen, damit wir alle den Rest des Sommers durchatmen können. Er lässt kein einziges Modell laufen, sondern hält die Feuer an beiden Enden am Brennen, obwohl er nichts auf seiner Tastatur tippt. Er ist zweifellos ein Idiot und geht mir echt auf die Nerven. Deshalb habe ich den Kontakt zu ihm abgebrochen. Er hat ein Problem, über das ich nicht hinausblicken kann.

Du hast ihm doch schon gesagt, er solle sich auf seine eigenen Probleme konzentrieren, und schon ist er wieder in Ralphs Thread und sorgt wie immer für INTERNATIONALEN Ärger. Er beschimpft euch alle hinter eurem Rücken als Nazis und hängt dann wieder mit euch rum. Und du lässt ihn gewähren.

Ich will verdammt sein, wenn diese Deutschen nicht komisch sind. Er hätte genau eine Chance, die Moderatoren hier als Idioten zu bezeichnen und ihnen gefährliche Wettbewerbe vorzuwerfen. Er würde zweifellos gebannt werden.

Ich schätze, du brauchst seine Rhetorik, die in Stellvertreterkriegen jedes Feuer anfacht?

Wie lange lässt du dir noch gefallen, dass er dich beleidigt? Und er hat sogar deinen Sohn beleidigt. Soweit ich weiß, ist er für uns ein Kind, also wer würde so etwas tun? Christian ist ein richtiges Arschloch! Ich habe diese E-Mails …

[Clugh]

But then again lets watch the video he sent me. It feature the premium flagship power system commissioned by Powercroco of his 50 series hk and the YGE 320 with the full steel bearing and no potting on the wires. lets see how it goes for 5000 to 6000 dollars in a plane... Please enjoy. The YGE has all failsafe removed because the motor according to him has more potential than the smart esc's report. It was deemed as a hindrance to the power the motor could deliver.

So here is an example of that result here.

You wont hear anything remotely about this I can assure you.

[Clugh]

The APD PRO HV has never burned with the motor. You cannot disable its brain..... and its twice as powerful by very long ways. DZ could fly faster than you or your friends ever have if he would just change the motor he runs to something else and can fly it..

[Clugh]

Die Idioten

Christian

An: mich · Mi., 17. Juli 2024, 02:24 Uhr

Nachrichtentext

Hallo Hugh,

Die Speedflieger und ihre Vorsitzenden veranstalten in Ballenstedt einen Speedflugwettbewerb, bei dem alle möglichen Klassen aufgeführt sind. Es gibt jetzt auch 72-Volt- und 100-Volt-Klassen. Die Speed-Fun-Klasse ist am besten geeignet, da die Modelle 100-Volt-Akkus haben können, bis zu 25 kg wiegen dürfen und es keine maximale Flächenbelastung gibt. Das heißt, man kann mit maximal kleinen Flügeln fliegen, das Flugzeug muss nur abheben. Soweit so gut. Ich habe darauf hingewiesen, dass dies bei den hohen Spannungen nicht ganz sicher sein kann, insbesondere wenn Modellbauer wenig Erfahrung mit Elektrizität haben. Es sind nicht nur 100 Volt Gleichspannung, sondern dank des Reglers auch 100 Volt Drehstromwechselspannung. Weil sie solche Bedenken ignorieren, hat Speedflieger-Chef Thomas Moldtmann den Thread einfach übel gelöscht. Das sind Methoden wie zu DDR-Zeiten. Wie die Piloten mit brennenden Speedfliegern umgehen, sieht man in YouTube-Videos. Und in vielen Videos tragen die Helden auch nicht die vorgeschriebenen Helme. Okay, jeder kann sich umbringen wie er will. Die denken nur, dass sie euch den Spaß am Speedfliegen nicht verderben wollen. Stimmt aber überhaupt nicht, mir geht es um die Sicherheit von Nachahmern, die ohne Wettbewerb Speedflieger zusammenbauen und sonst kaum Ahnung haben. Das wird nicht verstanden.

Okon ist der Beste im Vertuschen. Warum die Antriebe trotzdem immer wieder durchbrennen, ist schwer zu verstehen. Heute sind Elektroniken möglich, die Überströme und Temperaturen der Antriebe erkennen und so den Antrieb schützen. Durchbrennen gibt es nicht. Hans Lehner, Uwe Plettenberg usw. hatten noch nie durchgebrannte Antriebe bei Wettbewerben. Ich habe auch noch alle meine Motoren, die nie durchgebrannt sind. Wenn was durchbrennt, ist die Belastung viel zu hoch. Ohne Hirn.

[Clugh]

Segmentierte Magnete
Christian Lucas
An: mich und 1 weiteren
·
Mi., 24. Juli 2024, 9:13 Uhr
Nachrichtentext
Da Sie gerade dabei sind, den Wirkungsgrad zu verbessern, ist die beste Methode, den Crocoman zu schocken: Könnten Sie segmentierte Magnete bekommen? Vielleicht hilft eine sehr dünne Diamanttrennscheibe oder Sie kaufen kleine Magnete und kleben sie in die Rotorglocke. Das reduziert Wirbelströme deutlich. Hans Lehner und ich haben unsere Bootsmotoren auf diese Weise getunt und waren erfolgreich. Denken Sie mal darüber nach. Ihre Wicklung ist auf dem neuesten Stand der Technik, und der Wärmeleitkleber ist der beste Weg, die thermische Optimierung des Motors zu verbessern. Weniger Magnetwärme ist der nächste Schritt zur Verbesserung Ihrer Motoren.