Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Ampere Gerd ist überhaupt nicht gültig, da er die tatsächliche Leistung der Klopfer berechnen könnte, nicht den Verbrauch anhand eines Wattmeters. Diese Seite ist ein Witzbold.

Die Idioten haben vergessen, was eigentlich am Propeller passiert

[Clugh]

The product of RPM and Torque divided by 5252 equals hp. 1 hp is approximately 745 watts. Maybe Powercroco needs an engineering degree and a few physics classes to understand the problem at 14,500 rpm empirically and that unilog is simply a watts consumption meter.

[Clugh]

Pay Attention ladies....

From a 5040 to a 5050 on the same bearing system is no automatic win as he thinks. Just because you lengthen the stack also does not mean you get a better motor. A shorter larger diameter stack is usually more efficient despite more end turn losses. Ralph's 5o50 engine in comparison to the 5040 certainly has elevated frictional and windage losses with the 5 dollar steel bearing he uses and a heavier rotor Until he has weighed his rotors and determined the Couette Reynolds number for each rotor in air he doesn't know the real torque coefficient so determining his frictional and windage loss differences between the two motors is a no go. A higher torque constant actually has increased windage losses as well. If you take the time to calculate his torque constant you will see that 14500 rpm at 410 amperes is not enuf if he pulls 18-24 Kw to do it. Running the steel bearing is stupid in the high speed application because you can see that the RPM achieved is critical for better efficiency. If he gained 500-1000 rpm in a simple bearing swap it begins to be significant . The Steel bearings in this case produce and transmit electrical noise. They have a significantly lower load rating and significantly more drag. That's just one problem you have when you want to run a large external rotor with surface mounted magnets at high speed. The drag numbers also vary with air density so what is calculated today might be worthless tomorrow and also change at altitude...

By their own standards if the bearing increased the speed they increased the speed stiffness and thus efficiency.

So what does Dr Ralph Okon really know about electrical or mechanical engineering if he wont discuss this? You wont find the discussion on German social media or the silly shut down sites anywhere. Unlike talking about another mans degree right in the middle of it. Talking about it, or asking specific motor questions are off topic real quick on the social site posing as a hobby forum where modelers can learn.

You can get banned there for doing it.

[Clugh]

The average industrial wind is around 44% fill the best anyone will do in hand winding is probably 60% fill A slower tedious task but you will never in an orthogonal lay with round wire out fill a square wire in a square slot...

That's a really dumb idea.

DUH!

[Clugh]

NO ONE!

In hobby anywhere in any rc sport has a use for 3 phase BLDC electric motors with 61% eta. unless they like fires. And it is no secret to academia the wild bundle in hand windings do just fine as compared to orthogonal lay which ensures the wires which are stacked axially sees different current density at different levels in the slot. Thats no good. Large parallel wires have never been good and that was long before they hand wrapped a cd rom motor in Germany. If you wind more than 2 levels you can mitigate the ac noise and crosstalk of the large wires. Hairpins are in fact large conductors but they lay them in at least 4 layers with stator shift is how they can get the large wire without the noise.

I hope these ancient facts are new for someone.

[Clugh]

I can also tell you that Christian rotor is unique to him. No one else has that and it is segmented. The parallel slot also ensure a more even current density in his pressed LITZ wires

[Clugh]

and So if I were them id return it. Because here no one has said a thing about 10 s lipo and the 2 motors on the board are not the same Kv or voltage . These are just written values not a graph or plat from unilog or anything else. We know you love to lie. But you can see from what youve calculated and ETA of 81 and 78 and it still is not correct if you look at the Kt of the motors and calculate what the output SHOULD be at amperage .

Your laughing but you eta here isnt any better than a factory scorpion. They use real mechanical measure.

I can believe you are proud of 79 and 81 percent eta . but this is low Low for a BLDC motor . Just look around.

Dont ever worry about my calculator being incorrect as you have no degrees in the subject matter and your eta is significantly lower than mine.

Post those comparative numbers..... to 79 and 81 percent if that's your claim.



Hubert

[Clugh]

This is how I calculate you and you can use scorpion own numbers. Scorpion HKIII-5040-530kv (8mm 34mm) - Scorpion Power System LOL
a 530 kv 5040 has a Kt of 1.83 N/cm at 412 amps is 7.53Nm. Your draw is 14.09 kW but the mechanical out is 11.19 Kw which is 7.53 at 14200 rpm 79.4 % .
so your calculator could be a little more accurate...

Play games because neither one of these is the plotted motor for 61 % which shows the voltage is not 10s lipo and the amperage is 410... and this wont drive past 600 Km/h with any real flame free consistency. What you see is a 7 volt drop across the motor at a high load

I hope no one there in Germany READING HERE...thinks 79.4% efficiency is something to be proud of in a BLDC machine.

Id want my money back because the poor motor is running at its limits here as the 2 sec max is only 14.8Kw so yes she is maxed out as I said. Your at a performance point where nothing else goes up but the amperage for more throttle.

The difference in throughput power between 79% efficiency and just 90% is tremendous. Our best here operate in the 92-94% range. So you can go back to the drawing board in Dresden

[Clugh]

The other issue is the Kt report is false in that if you account for the winding factor It cant be 1.83N/cm in the first place. its really around 1.75 so they hurt themselves actually. This number also varies by air density and is also dependent on things like the radial load placed on the bearings in a turn.

A good thing has come from this remote response on German social media.

All the modelers know now a knocker prepared by powercroco runs no better than 80% efficiency in its intended application. He has reported that himself.


Thanks
Hubert

[Clugh]

The Lehner outrunner

[Clugh]

Neu 1524 inrunner. There should be no question about the scorpion knocker in comparison to the in runners. its trash!
The Lehner on the other hand really does show in runner efficiency levels

Hubert

[Clugh]

Chris, das ist das Thema, also ist das Ihre Gelegenheit, es mit der Effizienz des Lehner zu vergleichen. Jetzt sind Sie an der Reihe, die enormen Unterschiede in der Durchsatzleistung zwischen den beiden Maschinen zu berechnen. Sie werden schockiert sein. Das ist es, was man in einem Forum tut, man braucht keinen Abschluss, um einen Idioten zu entlarven.

Sehen Sie, wie ich die Wahrheit aus der Ferne ans Licht bringe

Eta 79.4% CROCOWORLD????

Ich brauche meine Frau auch nicht, um die Matheaufgaben für mich zu machen, Ralph! Du bist für mich ein echter Witz.

🖤
Hubert

[Clugh]

Sie sind sehr schlau. Wenn Sie also noch ein bisschen mehr über Ihre Motoren posten, kann ich Ihren Kt und Ihre Leistungsdichte in allen möglichen Vergleichen berechnen. Sagen Sie Ihren kleinen Freunden in Deutschland, dass Sie das gerne sehen würden. Das ist alles, was Sie tun müssen, damit ich Ihnen noch mehr von meiner Mathematik zur Kritik geben kann bruder Okon.

[Clugh]

Ich schätze, die Peanut Gallery in Dresden hat nichts zu sagen. Das Forum macht Spaß, da jeder Thread ein Pflaster von Gerd braucht. Diese beiden kleinen deutschen Bastler können mit akademischen Diskussionen nicht mithalten, also werden sie immer persönlich und so. Sie verweisen immer auf die Industrie, haben aber nie irgendwo gearbeitet, was mit dem Thema zu tun hat. Ralph denkt, er sei Teil einer überlegenen Rasse, aber die Überlegenheit führt nur zu Irrtümern und Lügen. Sie können keine akademische Debatte führen, weil der Moderator ein absolut voreingenommener Idiot ohne Integrität ist. Er weiß, dass die Motoren mit 79 % laufen, aber wenn Sie diesen Idioten in seinem Forum fragen, würden sie Sie sperren. Diese Arschlöcher werden Sie sperren, wenn Sie Englisch verwenden.

Als Amerikaner würde ich bei denen nichts kaufen!

Das ist eine Tatsache! Das ist eine einschränkende Leistung.

79.4%


Hubert

[Clugh]

These idiots are going to spend endless months on this issue now, but in my opinion it stops at 79% because there are a billion better engines, so why highlight something that is mediocre. They don't calculate the difference in throughput that +10% efficiency makes. All you hear is old **** or questions about degrees. All distractions because we present online how smart we are and know nothing.

You are damn ignorant and think the whole world should speak German. I'll tell you quite frankly that I don't like the racist wankers.

This is where Thomas' mouth would be wired quickly.

Little Napoleon

NEXT!

I try to avoid the personal, because otherwise I'm telling the ugly truth. Social media doesn't change anything for me. I'm always real! I'm not interested in them and they've never impressed me. Holds a 11kW output motor claiming 24kW to you all. A simple conventional two-layer star-wound outrunner that performs well in a field of 20 people with the same motor. A reactive power company! That does no better than the factory machine for less money. There is a legacy of burnt ones with destroyed demagnetized rotors and inverters from people who have tried it...and why is that?


Hubert

[Clugh]

If they were truly Advanced like the real brains in Germany they would be winding the multilevel hybrids on a two 24N20P 2 pancake machines in a counter rotational coaxial setup and be under 700 grams with the drive. The rotor and PM's are fully shielded by this semi concentrated overlapped winding system from Drs. Dieter Gerling And Dajaku Gurakuq at the University of Bundeswehr in Munich Germany. These are the EE's with the relevant PhD. The efficiency and power factor in such a machine is second to nothing that Powercroco and his friends do @ 79% eta. There is significantly less PM and iron loss with this so it makes better use of the available iron and magnets no matter what machine you wind it into. It would perform exceptionally in a high speed high pole count machine because that's what it is for.



Get some rest sucka...😀
Hubert

[Clugh]

Why do you all think the LEADER is here? But of course it is winding school. From true leaders in the field of study. Let me take you back to the first page of this thread and why Dr Ralph Okon AKA powercroco camps here in my house with his 11kW Knocker at 79% eta. he and his friend rant and rave about. I want you all to look closely at the efficiency map of the TRUE 35kW machine. 79% is no where around. Look at the torque delivery.

Dr Sariful Islam version he sent me personally pictures of. This is directly ABB's and has been studied by them. The knocker winding is a paperweight winding compared to this. When you talk about industry and cutting edge windings you would be focused on this. Ill just tell you real. That little crap the goof troop does is child's play....

Sincerely,
Hubert

[Clugh]

They are light years behind And apparently Powercroco and Audiotroll cannot figure out how to wind it or fit with their large conductors😄 This is how just the winding can improve the iron and rotor PM performance in the machine. It is a semi distributed winding system dingleberry. So where are all the hand winding experts on the German social media when you need them???

[Clugh]

Boho1
Today, 07:35 AM

Hi Ralph,

I'm glad you are in attendance. but you need to work a little harder in class to raise that c average.

TTYS
Hubert

[Clugh]

Ich meine, wow, wie schwer ist es, ein zweilagiges Dreieck mit 4+4 Delta Windungen im EVO-Schema zu wickeln. Dann wickelt man einen 2+2-Stern darüber, um einen Statorschlitz verschoben, und verbindet ihn in Reihe.

4 layers 😱

.....und die Leute behaupten, sie seien fortgeschritten. Das ist Grundschul-Lincoln-Log-Scheiße.

verschwinde, Junge


Hubert