Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

I find it hard to believe with the difference in resistance wire placement and termination ther would be no change in the Io. They have them rated exactly the same to the decimal. That's suspect actually. And the post in its entirety is kind of a diversion to the fill conversation was left at Christian last post and correction and then this is posted... Eta was never questioned. his fill was.

The idle currents are EXACTLY the same... seems Holger is subscribed to Croco world thinking. His point is to skip over the conversation and confirm himself that they motor makes good efficiency whatever the fill was but that wasn't the topic was it? I see how he moves the goal post.

The data needs to be reviewed for its accuracy anyway. Matching idle currents wouldn't be so precise between twin machines. Damn!

[Clugh]

Maybe Ralph or Christian will say something . I'm sure matching Io peeks his curiosity as well . It means the AC of the machine hasn't improved one bit. maybe this is the straight DC motor running at high speed as its improvement is strictly based on the dc. Zero change in Io is very strange to me. That one will need some explanation before i buy it.


I do not believe it!

Thank you
Hubert

[Clugh]

I also don't know how "scientific" people on hobby forums compete all using different calculators. Ecalc is the most accurate and complete on the world wide web and what the big dogs use. The full version isn't free...



Its a HTTPS!

eCalc - reliable electric drive simulations

[Clugh]

A hobbyist wrote....
To:hubert

Mon, Dec 23 at 9:06 PM

Hi Hugh,


I have a new Pyro 650-65 Competition I purchased for a Henseleit TDF build. I would like it rewound to 78 KV, balanced, and have a standard length shaft installed. I got your name from a helifreak post. Is this something you are still doing?

Thank you,
Mike P.

[Clugh]

Of course I will still help a fellow modeler. Here is the latest 650 going out. Its a 6+6 YY in 17 AWG 4 turns less than the AJ which has more copper than the competition black motor that is nearly 600 euro.. Any hobbyist can learn to wind this one though if they take the time and have the right hand tools. A fairly easy wind. No Hubertus award will be given. But I also thermally couple and secure the winding with 3m thermally conductive epoxy specifically made for securing wires. The flexibility and thermal stability is quite different that standard construction epoxy which is a pure insulator. I guess I could do it in 16 AWG 1.291mm which would be a fairly fat winding. In AWG there is no 1.21mm so that sits between 16 and 17 AWG. Even though the TEMCO 200 degree wire measures larger than 1.21 it is a double heavy insulation. Which for me is better protection from failure. The bare wire spec can be no less than 1.15mm to be deemed 17 AWG. This is why the European sizes can be more useful. The 16 AWG might be over 1.30mm so you have to fit the insulation in the slot as well. Its a compromise in my mind. A short coil has low DC resistance but it is a low inductance coil with low turns so a low Q. which is not the ideal conductor. Ill grab a spool of 16 AWG and try that the next go round. I have 2 more 650's to get out of here b4 the new year.

[Clugh]

Woo that's a lot of overstock at 79% Ralph! Im sure that is why there are so many still on the shelf! Too bad its the same old thing for 2024 and more repairs into the new year. You see what is happening in the helifreaks want ads. Ill remove the knockers one heli at a time. There is no rush for better winding quality and information about BLDC machines.

Powerditto is dead.

Watch how well my remote control works Christian. It's got long range. By February all the promises will be broken and it will be back online... 😁

The PYRO 800 the hobbyist STOLE from post #13 never showed back up. How many years has that been..... The winds are only about 10 times better now.

I guess my ban-aid for Ralph's sake and all the nasty things they all said about me opposing Powercroco's motor theories on helifreaks is a STICKY!
I broke the monopoly remotely despite the politics so my championship is already won....

HOWEVER....You could give him 10 candles with 100 photos of 1000 of the black and gold machines. I only need 1 of any engine I wind because 79% will never beat me.


Keep striving and stay in school.


Happy Harmonics.
Hubert

[Clugh]

Hallo Chris, ich habe mir die Unterlagen zum Thema Nutenlose nochmal angesehen. Warum kein schlitzloser Außenrotor? Scheint, als würde ich auf diese Weise die Nuteneffekte verlieren. Der Ringkern wäre mit dem Alpha-Eisen auch einfach.

Thank You
Hubert

[Clugh]

So I measured the magnet wire from Temco USA which is 1.21 at the mic. With 30 microns of insulation it is indeed 1.18 of bare copper which calculates to approximately 32% more copper in the slot over the factory fill. A good wind but the stator could take at least 4 more turns without removing the enamel . The AJ is a 8+8 YY and will sit a hand wound nick maxwell 32 series scorpion on itz azz.. This is a 12 turn YY so the copper surface: is approximately 13.1mm^2 . Weight is approx. 300 gr Kv should be between 850-880 Kv based on timing and the electronic speed control used. I'll try it in a bigger wire sometime down the road since it has the room without removing any insulation. 12 turns in 16A AWG would probably fit the stator and be even better fill. This is more than adequate for the hobbyist. They are actually using the better efficiency of the pyros to detune for longer run times.

[Clugh]

Happy Holidays to all. Especially the maker .A carpenter builds things from wood and Santa knows who been naughty or nice....😁
Giving thanks for all I have.

Hubert


.

[Clugh]

Beware: this is not for everybody! I'm not responsible if you do not know what you are doing and try this extremely high voltage rig.
Be careful.

Hallo Christian,

Ich versuche, Teile zu bekommen. Ich habe einen TAN 100-Transformator mit 350 Volt Primär- und 120 Volt Sekundärspannung. Reichen 350 Volt? Wenn das alles ist, was ich brauche, ist es Zeit, den Elektrolytkondensator zu besorgen. Wie hoch ist die Kapazität Ihres Kondensators und wie hoch ist die Spannung? In diesem Fall muss sie über 350 liegen.

Was ist mit einer Fahrzeugzündspule als Hochspannungsquelle im Vergleich zum Transformator und Kondensator?

Beachten Sie, dass Doc Ok bereits hier im Unterricht ist und aufholt. Ich werde in den Daily Winders News nach Ihrem Originalbeitrag suchen. Es ist lustig. In Deutschland verhält er sich vor Leuten wie Kai und dem Rest der Trotteltruppe so, als hätte er kein Interesse.Aber wir dummen Techniker aus der Branche wissen, dass es in einer Werkstatt mit vielen kaputten PM-Rotoren einen extrem hohen Wert hat. Hobbyclowns wie Kai hilft es, seine 79 % zu reparieren und besser laufen zu lassen als je zuvor. Ihm schmeckt, was Ralph ihm zu essen gibt.


Thank you for your time and patience
Hubert

[Clugh]

Slot car motor examples....

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert,

i have to look how has the magnetisation puls be, so not jet info about.
For a second true. Thomas waight calculation is worth as no body look at the endwinding . Smaller dia has much narower endwinding and less waight. We have not pic but the aded waight is much more and dosenˋt rise the performanc direct. Free runing amps not mesured and so on , lots of fake news. Slot fill is the number. Not aded waight.

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Hi Hubert,

i have to look how has the magnetisation puls be, so not jet info about.
For a second true. Thomas waight calculation is worth as no body look at the endwinding . Smaller dia has much narower endwinding and less waight. We have not pic but the aded waight is much more and dosenˋt rise the performanc direct. Free runing amps not mesured and so on , lots of fake news. Slot fill is the number. Not aded waight.

Happy Amps Christian

They are in their own world. Jonestown is like that but I found the old post about the magnets and capacitor and will post it here for the hobbyist. What the beginners do does not help us.

The pulse might be as high as 1200 volts. Not sure but you could get 600 out of a street light ballast. But a CDI and IGN1A coil would get up there with alot of joule energy off just a 12 volt car battery.


Thanks
Hubert

[Clugh]

Btw you can use ferrite in flux focus applications. Maybe all the A-boys can determine if this is a sinus bemf it produces or a TRAP!

The data has shown they and their leader do not know anything about high efficiency brushless DC power systems.

(56) Novel Design of Six-Phase Spoke-Type Ferrite Permanent Magnet Motor for Electric Truck Application | Minyeong Choi - Academia.edu

[Chxpress]

Hi,
and if you look at the diagram from Holger , you know 190 Amps they have syncloss , total loss. There is so smal benefit of the better wind , makes no sence.
Good to know that i have no syncloss wit car esc. We see teaching will not help.
You need only a short pulse for the magnets , capasitor do it and there is no limit for charging time . Do you have the right thyristor or other switch ? A spark gap can do it you use only a little starting spark to bridge it. Little noisy but efficancy and cheap. And donˋ t forget the diode, othewiese it will swing with no magnetisation.

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Hi,
and if you look at the diagram from Holger , you know 190 Amps they have syncloss , total loss. There is so smal benefit of the better wind , makes no sence.
Good to know that i have no syncloss wit car esc. We see teaching will not help.
You need only a short pulse for the magnets , capasitor do it and there is no limit for charging time . Do you have the right thyristor or other switch ? A spark gap can do it you use only a little starting spark to bridge it. Little noisy but efficancy and cheap.

Happy Amps Christian

As I said previously I don't believe the diagram from Holger unfortunately, because the motors both show the same Idle current. These type of weird things are always common there it seems, so I don't pay it much attention. There seems to be a problem with consistent truth there. And its his data on his equipment that is not universe accepted. When people think they still need to write their own calculators if they have seen the thoroughness of Markus Ecalc to me that doesn't make any sense. I don't need to rewrite my own version based on less input variables and functionality or trust one as such . Sorry to Holger but if that is the best imposition capability it has he should post the two plots separately. I still do not believe it, but It is not the answer to the percentage of slot fill in the first place. It was hard to just tell you were right. So I get even more suspicious of their data.

Syncloss is what you have with a weaker outdated inverter and overloaded mismatched motors with it. Its not a mystery when a motor has run out of pullout torque that it desynchronized. It is also no surprise if you run an inverter with no fault protection what is going when the magnets loose adequate field to time properly. I've told Ralph that eons ago. You know his thing is to live in denial in front of his friends. Its strange when the motors efficiency is what it is. But he post it thanks to the "black troll" POCBOI at Clugh's bad calculations

I'm buying the hydra version of the XLX2. Its a strong inverter. How long ago I tell Ralph about it. He doesn't listen to anything I've tried to suggest to him. You have to let him and Thomas run this winding program where nothing works for their applications and inverters but 12N10P dual layer wyes. The empiric efficiency has been uploaded so what can you really say if they dont like your ideas?

I understand the problem arises when he post on forums across the world that the ideas do not work. That creates alot of animosity and is non communal. If He says he doesn't need it then be quiet but they are not able to do that. You have plenty of threads there started with better ideas as they seem to always suggest and they have come in them and ****ted on the room. Then they are locked. The history is archived as it is online....so a person that cant see this continual cycle of bs then they are equally special. I plan to give them a gift for the new year and drive data from a parallel single layer with semi magnetic slot wedges on the HK! And then dual invert it at 180 degrees firing.

If I add 4 turns of open ended coils on the adjacent arms and connect them serially to each delta then parallel the wyes starts I'll have a 13AWG big wire parallel Wye-Delta hybrid. My rotor and magnets will run cooler and wont fail when theirs do but he says he doesn't want it, the thermally coupled windings or the ceramic hybrid bearings I fit it with.

Yet he is here in this room right now on every word..... as "Boho1"


Thank You
Hubert

[Clugh]

After he has seen that work 😏 I'll build them my own 50 series motor from the ground up with the right cut, winding , and inverter and finish them with the 20 or so speeder motors.. They wont need a 100 black and gold 5000 watt soldering irons to finish a season. It doesn't matter how fast it happens because low efficiency is not my problem so I am secure.


I can hardly wait to tune the scorpion my way and post the numbers. I'll forgive what his friends say and take their money.




Happy Holidays🖤
Hubert

[Chxpress]

Hi Hubert,
enjoy the Happy Holidays and thank you for the paper in answer 2354 that show how flux compression worke and clever coil arrangement reduce harmonics.We do that since over 40 years and I have always offered these technologies for speed pilots if they want the most power-dense drives. If i want to set a new record i am looking for the best motordesign i can get and go a step forward if possible.

Happy Amps Christian

[Clugh]

Hi Hubert,
enjoy the Happy Holidays and thank you for the paper in answer 2354 that show how flux compression worke and clever coil arrangement reduce harmonics.We do that since over 40 years and I have always offered these technologies for speed pilots if they want the most power-dense drives. If i want to set a new record i am looking for the best motordesign i can get and go a step forward if possible.

Happy Amps Christian

The wedges don't have to be laminations. If alpha iron was used the wedges could be solid 1 piece. I also have enough here to build a slot less in runner with the toroidal core. I may build something special for another gearbox . You see you never got a weight for the HK based rainbow drive the speed pilot built with the super chief because he weighs significantly more. He posted it there for his friends to compete with what we are doing here but then hides the specifications when I post mine clearly and then ask because it falls terribly short.

This is a fact his boys can take to the bank. I've yet the need to hide my data. That should mean something to an intelligent person. There is nothing new in Dresden for the speed pilots in 2024 . Its the same old thing.


Thank you
Hubert

[Chxpress]

Hi,
yes it´s right and with Ferrite magnets the eddycurrent loss is very low. A motor with Ferrite magnets can rev very high. Our flywheel storage used Ferrite, no slots airgap coils as stator with neo magnets runing outside adding waight to the carbon flywheel and Bridge the gap of the coils.

Happy Amps Christian