Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

U calling out my name. Well I'm here with the new 12N10P hybrid winding in a parallel configuration. It runs smoothly! The hobbyist here didn't have to build one with a custom rotor for themselves to see it run..

Its eazy to type hype!!!!

But the truth is right here...

Got ya again......
No 20 pole has run yet!

More excuses!

:zipper_mouth:

[Clugh]

Everyone there that just posted the nonsense that an interested modeler should have to wind the motors themselves to test them for the validity of the claims, I do not agree with. If you come on a hobby forum technical section claiming to be an advanced hobbyist or engineer and share an idea with hobbyist for improvement it is proper to show them you have done it yourself and what the results were. I've been on hobby forums as long as they have been around and that's always been how it's been done. When Jimmy showed the boys his world class IC engines he showed you how to build it and deliver data on his results through accurate measurement tools he built himself. If you cannot do that then you are not an advanced modeler. Its modelers that can build Turbine engines from scratch and show the results to whomever want to see. You talking about wrapping copper wire around an iron core. It's a specialized art from but many people have mastered it much better than us. I don't expect a hobbyist to just pick on 20 years experience of winding work to test a theory I bring him. That certainly is not fair. If you truly believed this why sell motors or a winding service?????

Just provide plans and everybody is own there own.

Make it make sense.....

The best and most advanced HUMANS and hobbyist from time to time will even go as far as to give or provide their specialty to someone else and even show them hands on how to do it for no profits. I've had a lot of people in hobby treat me that way so why not pay it forward?

[Clugh]

18N10P

And what did I tell you about asymmetry in the tooth tips??? Say hello to Dr Gerling for me. Since Chris talk to him.
But let Christian know Dr Gerling and Gurakuq flux barrier 12N14P has 10% more torque than the traditional cut. You
see Iron has been removed in specific places as compared to a traditional cut.
Design rules for Stators with Flux Barriers

• J. Gerold, D. Gerling
• Published in International Conference on… 1 July 2019
• Engineering, Physics

[Clugh]

Dr. Okon

A properly executed Gerling 7/8 on 12N10P reduced the pm loss by 80%. Powercroco (YOU) says it does nothing but provided only that the dc resistance is higher in the winding. If the work was understood by you that was to be expected. There is no way Ralph u have fully tested it but cant provide any data about it but its measured dc resistance? Why is that? The test subject was not a "large" motor. The 5,000.00 YOKOGAWA motor PA, FEMM, and his discrete lab testing is not lying to Dieter and unilog damn sure doesn't Trump it!


How is it your exact application heavy loading brings you demagnetized rotors but you have no use for it?


Thats the part where YOU make absolutely zero sense yourself Doc. It also would not explain why you camp here. Because I'm certainly a student of Dr Gerling and the IEEE

That's all you'll get here is better ideas from the body and people like him.

TTYL
Hubert

[Clugh]

PS its the same thing with the 20 pole. Zero data is provided to go along with your editorials on "Gimmicks" I or others ideas like Christian may believe strongly in.

You have had quite a hand in alot of the technical nonsense floating around on rc forums yourself sir. But it isnt even technical without a single digit of data disclosed.

Nonsense like....."YGE's engineers don't know how their own inverter works" because I keep frying my motors and YGE 320 esc's set up in DUMM mode.

But when I look at my rotors they are demagnetized.......:face_with_monocle:

Do you remember this madness?

:woozy_face:

[Clugh]

From the latest work maybe you could just stick a short circuited single coil at the slot opening. Or in the FB. Have you heard of this "Gimmick" ?

Really I have to go...

The P800 should arrive today. I plan to turn the heat up on your scorpion knockers...They can test it in competition....



TTYL
Hubert

[Clugh]

Kontronik Pyro P800 40

The big block is in. It's in excellent condition. I can enter it into the circus against the 41LMT or HK5 4035 at 490 grams. She can handle 30,000 rpm mechanical. Where are the leaders??? The 14 poler is ready for my flux barrier cut or my parallel hybrid winding filled to competition black levels. That in a conventional delta winding from kontronik would cost an American $808.00 US dollars to his door. What a score at 200 dollars off helifreak. 😜


Don't get caught slippin' suckas I'm coming for you...:speak_no_evil:
Thx.
Hubert

[Clugh]

And so upon inspection the motor is in excellent shape. Even the bearings were in good shape. The factory wind is pretty un spectacular to say the least. But what I found under the hood for 400 Kv was a 6+6 Delta in 1.21mm. Approx. 17 AWG. I could easily refit that into a hybrid but you want more copper don't you?? The stator stripped absolutely clean and the rotor has excellent detent. Magnets feel great and its immaculate inside the bell. 😍 I love the construction esp the fact the motor shaft is pinned to the rotor versus a flat and set screw. The big block isn't coming apart any time soon. Even the exposes=d motor shaft came back really clean after a hit with fine scotch Brite. I even got the castle 6.5mm connectors back....

You have no use for the "Gimmincks" you are subscribed.... first row seat 1.


Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

So it looks like id love to get 19 turns of 15 AWG in the slot. It wont be easy. 7 turns wye 12 turns delta. Since its a single coil winding system I probably can fit it. In AWG there is no equivalent to 1.6mm wire. 14 AWG is a minimum of 1.628mm but the 1.6 would be doable to wrap 12 turns on the single layer deltas the try for 7 turns on the wyes. I'll play around with it and get some copper in there a 6 + 10 perhaps. Then ill find a prop that can load the hell out of it and run it on the APD hv pro. I believe its better to wind for more turns than less for the inductive qualities it brings.....If I start somewhere around a 12 turn sl parallel delta I know ill be close to the original speed of this motor. We want the Kv somewhere between 300-400. Lower would be better so I can pump it up with some voltage and lower the amp draw. The speed limit is 30,000 rpm. Bert did 12 turns of 1.5mm approx. 15 AWG 19.8mm^2 copper cross sectional area in the slot. So let me try a significant test wind and see if I can fit 19 turns of 17 AWG 19.76mm^2 cross sectional area in the slot A 6+6 in 1.6mm is very healthy indeed at 24+ mm^2 copper cross section in the slot. But you need 7 turns on the other side.

:nauseated_face:

I doubt it happens but I don't need that kind of copper fill to destroy the death star with high rotor & pm eddy current losses due to the low order harmonics it generates. Even the 19 hybrid turns of 17 AWG in the parallel configuration should be quite competitive in any situation.

Who wants to fly it???

We bring you gifts from the USA !

:gift:

Thanks for your time and patience,
Hubert

[Clugh]

But maybe a 5+9 for 14 total turns might work in 15 AWG. Its definitely feasible in 17AWG and even there is more copper than the factory 800 which was only 12 turns of 17 AWG . Let me think about it for a minute.

Hubert

[Clugh]

Hallo Ralph, der Typ ist einfach unglaublich, haha! Das Wickelmuster ist auch so einfach. Über und unter drei Zähnen. Aus seinem irrelevanten Beitrag, in dem er den Bastler angreift, der nach Ergebnissen für die 12N20P sucht, geht klar hervor, dass er sie nicht aufziehen kann. Jetzt ist es an der Zeit, alle Bastler anzugreifen, die nach Daten und Ergebnissen fragen. Ziemlich erstaunlich, wenn man bedenkt, dass er es vorgeschlagen hat. Das ist völliger Unsinn, der nicht zum Thema gehört, und ich kann definitiv nicht dazu stehen.

Das ist völliger Unsinn, der nicht zum Thema gehört, und ich kann definitiv nicht daneben stehen.

[Clugh]

Here dudes MO.
read it and watch the entire German forum come to the same conclusion about dude. He's truly nuts.

:no_mouth:

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

LMT 41 480 grams 35.000 U/min approx. 6kW
Scorpion HK5 4035 482 grams 8.2kW

I've been calling for the fair comparison but its never going to happen. Neither is the 20 pole. I hate to bring that reality to you.... He is not going to do anything relevant to the subject matter.

you might as well put that back in the sand box. Its never changing.

The first brushless inverter was invented in 1962 It was called solid state commutation. Invented at an Ivy League. FOC came very soon after. The 80s are 20 years after these technologies have been fully developed. Where do you think he got it from????

[Clugh]

"Ich benenne mein Interesse in diesem Disput ganz konkret: Ich möchte wissen, ob Christian Lucas in der Lage ist, bessere Motoren für uns Modellbauer und Speeder zu bauen als Ralph Okon. Letzterer liefert schon lange und vielfach und auch weiterhin praktische Ergebnisse seiner Arbeit. Jetzt möchte ich den Vergleichsmotor des Happy-Amps-Mann sehen.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen"
~Andreas~

[Clugh]

Me too!

Thanks,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Powercroco

User

• Today at 09:50

• #56

Christian Lucas wrote:
The direct drive bs helicopter engine from 1997 that participated in the Berblinger Prize 1998

Just recently you wrote that the fuel cell gave up the ghost before the competition.
Decide on a variant of the story and then stick with it!
If the helicopter really participated: what result was achieved and where is this documented?


__________________________________________________ ___________________
I would find a competition between Christian and Hubert Hargett, whom he holds in such high esteem, much more interesting!

The two engineers work on a much higher level than we disdainful hobbyists like Schmiddie and I or Bert or Holle or all the other hobbyists.
We do - as has been absolutely correctly stated - again and again only variants of the well-known in order to have our fun.

The two, on the other hand, work according to the current state of affairs optionally with super sheets, special stator cuts, flux barriers and magnetic flux compression, ferrofluid, ceramic bearings, special semi-axle systems, sheet metal magnets and copper inferences and copper filling degrees beyond 90% and very special winding techniques and at least 6 phases with very special control electronics including FOC and maps!
I'm sure I forgot to list a lot.
For example, the very special formulas for calculating efficiency and creating data sheets.

I have never formulated the claim to be able to do better than these two and therefore declare myself a loser from the outset!

Besides, as you know, I come from the 9N / 18N CD-Rom corner.
The "Urcroco" is a further development of the 18N Ditto drive motor operated together with other hobbyists.
At the same time, we converted printer motors.
The CL didn't show me anything, even if he keeps claiming that.
Martin Götzenberger, Wol***ng Planer, Helmut Schenk and Micha Schöttner have been my "teachers". I can also read.
As far as the diapering practice is concerned, it was Lambertu's hell of everything.
I had close contacts with the companies of Rolf Strecker, Kontronik and Scorpion - with all of them at the same time and none of them had a problem with it. Even today, I actually maintain contacts with manufacturers, but from other areas than model making.

As long as some pilots are still having fun with my creations, I will pass the time with wrapping a little more "old style" and not let CL take away the fun from me.

As soon as the interest (as with the website) decreases here in the forum, I will withdraw anyway.
But currently 277,000 hits on my Wickhread and about 2000 likes make me suspect that the old stuff is still of interest to one or the other, at least here.

PS.:
As you know, I haven't done speed flying since 2019.
But for my gliders, my (real existing) "scrap iron" engines are still good enough.
This year I have already had 11 flying days with it.

Last edited: Today at 10:12 AM

Ralph



Und weißt du, Al Bundys Frau sieht viel besser aus als dieser alte Mathematiker, :japanese_goblin:nicht wahr, du Glatzkopf? Im Biest steckt Schönheit, was, Bosley?

War Blue der DJ bei der Tierzeremonie? Sag ihm, ich bin auch viel größer als er ... Ich finde, ein interessanterer Wettbewerb ist mein Neuwickeln gegen die entmagnetisierten Briefbeschwerer, die Ralph aufwickelt. Und nein, Ralph, mit Holle oder Dekker gibt es kein Problem, nur mit dir. Die sagen nicht so was wie „YGE weiß nicht, was es tut“, um ihre Fehler zu vertuschen.Bert liefert auch Daten. Bei dir ist es nicht so, dass dein 20-poliger Motor ohne Kilometerstand aus Holles Maxon 1.92-Computer rollt. Mach dir keine Sorgen um Christian, nur DU bekommst bessere Zahlen mit dem Schrott, den du mit 69 % für über 1.000 Euro aufwickelst.

Ist dir aufgefallen, dass Bert seinen alten Kunden nicht gesagt hat, sie sollen zu dir kommen? Der hat vor mir schon für den Brenner gekurbelt... Seine Motoren sind auch leistungsstärker als deine. Bert ist mir recht. Ich kenne Holle nicht, aber der versteht mehr von Elektronik als du. So viel weiß ich über ihn... er braucht keine Spitznamen, um durchzukommen... Ich verstehe, dass dich Helikopter-Freaks nerven... und dein Derivat Eta... und die Leistungsdichte ist geringer. Ich kriege fast wöchentlich eine neue Anfrage von dort. Wenn die da nie wieder Bratwurst grillen, ist es ja egal.

Du drehst immer noch mit dem Antiquitäten für eine neue Staffel von Demag und röstest die Yge-Brüder... die sind weg, hör auf, sie zu reparieren... DIE SIND VERALTET

Du redest von Chris, musst aber seine Wickeltechnik von vor 20 Jahren benutzen, die er dir gezeigt hat. Was hast du wirklich verbessert? KEINE!

[Clugh]

Und ja, Thomas ist vor dir in Rente gegangen, und ein Pilot versucht immer noch, dich einzuholen. Der andere … DZ schafft es nicht, fünfmal an dir vorbeizufliegen. Was ist mit dem Playa los?

Richtig, du fliegst nicht, sondern gibst die Burgergrills einfach an den nächsten Mann weiter, damit er mit ihm konkurrieren und sich verbrennen kann.


Hubert

[Clugh]

Ich habe über 500.000 Aufrufe und noch mehr Fotoaufrufe im selben Forum wie du, Kumpel, aber vergiss den ganzen Mist. Hol den schwarz-goldenen Müll jederzeit raus. Gib einfach Daten an.