Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Und wie kann dieser Typ nicht verrückt sein? Er nutzt Ralphs Leistung als Argument, um mit Thomas zu streiten, und das bringt ihm nur eine Auszeit ein. Ansehen. Da er jetzt Scorpion hervorhebt, sollte er seinen Motor im Vergleich zu einem gleich schweren Motor erwähnen und Ihnen dann zeigen, wie viele große Fortschritte er gemacht hat.

what are you waiting for Ralph post the HKV 4035 and stir the pot. 8.2kW

[Clugh]

DJBLUE liegt falsch. Es besteht kein Zweifel, dass Ralph und Thomas die greifbarste experimentelle Wickelarbeit auf der Site geleistet haben. Sie sind überhaupt nicht in derselben Liga, wenn es um empirisches Angebot geht. Es ist nicht einmal annähernd so. Echte Wickler haben während dieser Diskussion mehrere Motoren gewickelt, während die anderen Teilnehmer dort nichts gewickelt haben und es auch nie tun werden. Ralph ist der einzige, der dort überhaupt eine neue Wicklung versucht hat. Ein 7/8 Gerling CL ist genau der Typ auf dem Sofa, der keinen Motor gewickelt hat und seit 20 Jahren kein RC-Modell mehr betrieben hat. Deshalb muss er Ralphs Empirie verwenden!!! Ralphs ist länger!!!!, ganz bestimmt.

in 4 Jahren haben sie nichts mit den neuen Wicklungen gemacht, die ich ihnen gezeigt habe, aber sie streiten in einem Forum mit Trugschlüssen und Schimpfwört

[Clugh]

Oh my wait Till Gerd and Thomas get activated. Time outs are on the way... He's trolling Audio smith after being told stay in the sand box. Versus finishing and showing his own 20 pole.

Danke
Hubert

[Clugh]

This is the state of the 20 pole. Will it run? Can any of these claims be confirmed without it doing so? So why is the person in Thomas thread wasting the forums time trolling? This is what the highest IQ in the room manages?

WOW

[Clugh]

March 1 2025 almost 10 days later is there anything to show for it beside bad behavior online? He doesn't do enough in real practice to compete with a daily winder. He knows that so the facade is only going to facilitate implosion! Routing wire neatly and compact isn't as eazy as Ralph made it look. He has surgeon hands, so you not just gone crush him winding in any regard. His hands are certified good if he is a surgeon. Keep it real with yourself and worry about your own project and bringing them into fruition. You aren't taking any speeder from him the way you go about it. After all the insults you still dont have any data CAP! And isnt it amazing how deficient these teeth are in iron..

[Clugh]

Well I'll go ahead and say it. This crap. Cannot beat my hybrids . Point blank. The bs doesn't even run.

What did I tell the boys??? Picking on the economical Joker is so weak for a high end vendors friend....

Hubert

[Clugh]

About boats Ralph,

Im in the process of trying to get you a photo of Lohring Miller's boat with a scorpion that set records here in 2 lap oval time trials in an 1/8th scale hydroplane. Big boat$ we run not small toys in a deadpool. The boat was a Dave Frank and the Driver was Brian Buass. The snowman. It was in this decade!!!!! NAMBA

[Clugh]

Hallo, ich bin neugierig, was passieren würde, wenn ich eine Seite des Stators in Sternschaltung und die andere in Dreieckschaltung wickeln würde und sie dann in Reihe schalten würde. Ich würde gern die Wellenform und die Modalanalyse der Statorschwingungen sehen.

Hier in den USA machen wir das anders. Nachdem ich den Hybrid mit echtem Draht umwickelt habe, messe ich die Konstanten, gebe sie wie üblich in Holles Rechner ein und lasse die Mathematik wie verrückt schreien ...

[Clugh]

Hi Ralph,

I also don't see it this way. He did not start that.....

Hubert

[Clugh]

Yall tripping. Thomas can wind his ass off!!! Leave that man alone and let him wind his motors in peace. Christian is just jealous.
Youve pushed that man off for somebody that isnt going to show you a thing but his Lehner. Which cannot be hand wound.

Thomas is doing great winding work with the inexpensive Joker and T motors .



So make it make sense and the alternative is empty stators....

dude is nothing but a hater bruh!!!!

[Clugh]

The T motor boys.....

Ill be damned. how you gone push Thomas out and his PYRO 1000 engine holds the world record....

Ill never hate on someone doing they thing. Thomas is a bad boy on that wire...

You need to immediately reverse your decision. You gotta be crazy for what you get in the alternative.

You look at his work Christian Lucas and you outta be ashamed that you are so damn jealous!

You know he does excellent work!!!

[Clugh]

DQ Analysis of Fractional-Slot Machines with Star-Delta Concentrated Winding

I. A. Rudden1, P. Wang1, H. Li1, G. J. Li1, Senior Member, IEEE, Z. Q. Zhu1, Fellow, IEEE, A. Duke2, R. Clark2
1, Department of Electronic and Electrical Engineering, The University of Sheffield, Sheffield, UK,
2, Siemens Gamesa Renewable Energy Limited, North Campus, Broad Lane, Sheffield, UK
Corresponding author: Guang-Jin Li (e-mail: g.li@sheffield.ac.uk).

ABSRACT
This paper presents a novel method for addressing the challenge of dq-transformation in fractional-slot machines with star-delta connected concentrated windings. These machines have no neutral point, preventing direct measurement of mutual inductance between phases. This complicates the calculation of d- and q-axis inductances, which are crucial for modern control techniques such as field-oriented and sensorless control. The proposed method derives d- and q-axis inductances as functions of individual star and delta coil inductances, which can easily be measured. Moreover, it demonstrates that the d- and q-axis inductances can be calculated using measurements from just two adjacent coils. The method begins with constructing a decomposed coil-by-coil inductance matrix, separating each phase winding into individual star and delta coil inductances. This matrix is then transformed into the dq-frame using a three-step process: firstly, summing individual flux linkages to derive line flux linkage based on circuit configuration; secondly, decomposing 3-phase abc supply currents into individual currents within the star and delta coils to address phase shift and amplitude differences; and finally, transforming line flux linkage into the dq-frame using a modified power-invariant Park transformation. The proposed method is validated by simulations and experiments on both surface mounted and interior permanent magnet machines.
INDEX TERMS dq analysis, concentrated windings, fractional-slot, star-delta connection.

[Clugh]

A. Star-Delta Connected Windings
The inherent phase shift between the star and delta coil currents can be used to eliminate the unwanted first subspace harmonic. To exploit this property, the ends of the star windings are connected to the junctions of the delta windings and the difference between a conventional star winding and the star-delta winding can be seen in Fig. 2(a) and Fig. 2(b). The voltage phasors for the star and delta winding sets can be seen in Fig. 2(c), demonstrating the 30 elec. deg. phase shift that exists between the two windings.
It has been demonstrated in literature that this phase shift can be applied to a 12s/10p FSCW machine to eliminate the 1st subspace harmonic while increasing the amplitude of the working (5th) harmonic by 3.5% [11]. In this paper both IPM and SPM machines are investigated, but emphasis on the IPM machine is used in the equation derivations as the influence of rotor saliency on star-delta coil mutual inductance is more significant. The example IPM star-delta machine, as well as the harmonic spectra of the winding MMF, can be seen in Fig. 3 with machine specifications given in TABLE I. The combination of eliminated 1st subspace harmonic and increase of 3.5% in the amplitude of the 5th leads to a reduction in rotor losses and improved torque performance. However, the added complexity of the winding arrangement requires reconsideration of the inductances if the machines is to be controlled in the dq-frame.

"The dq-transformation [19] is fundamental to many modern control methodologies including field-oriented control [20] and sensorless control [21, 22]. Although star-delta winding structures possess many advantages such as reduced harmonics and losses, it is difficult to get the dq-axis parameters such as Ld and Lq needed for these control schemes. This will be the main focus of this paper."


[19] R. H. Park, "Two-reaction theory of synchronous machines generalized method of analysis-part i," Transactions of the American Institute of Electrical Engineers, vol. 48, no. 3, pp. 716-727, July 1929.
[20] R. Gabriel, W. Leonhard, and C. J. Nordby, "Field-oriented control of a standard ac motor using microprocessors," IEEE Trans. Ind Appl, vol. IA-16, no. 2, pp. 186-192, Mar. 1980.
[21] R. Wu and G. R. Slemon, "A permanent magnet motor drive without a shaft sensor," IEEE Trans. Ind Appl, vol. 27, no. 5, pp. 1005-1011, Jan. 1991.
[22] Z. Chen, M. Tomita, S. Doki, and S. Okuma, "An extended electromotive force model for sensorless control of interior permanent-magnet synchronous motors," IEEE Trans. Ind. Electron., vol. 50, no. 2, pp. 288-295, Apr. 2003.

When I tell you THEY don't know anything but the basics about FOC communication I'm being honest. The boys don't even measure their inductances so they pay things like this absolutely zero mind .... alot of times forums and their members are just full of technical nonsense.

Talking about FOC inverters and don't even know how to set one up properly for max torque delivery from the get go....

All the nonsense makes me laugh to be quite honest. Because what I'm bringing you is the reality from the best in the field of Electrical Engineering.

[Clugh]

You have seen here in this thread me ask a million times about the direct and quadrature axis inductance . The "expert" has nothing to say. Anyone else that know any better know from that non answer that the poster is FOS! He doesn't know a damn thing about setting up a sophisticated FOC drive like one based in Talega. He truly doesn't want a hobbyist to really learn anything about this. All he wants to do is sell his friends motor to you who does not need any help.

A new winding with benefits like the hybrid he will never control optimally with FOC unless he takes real attention to his direct and quadrature axis inductance. He's not too interested in reporting his quadrature inductance it seems.

Do not believe the hype.
Hubert

[Clugh]

+1

How could I take any person seriously as a drive and motor design authority to help the forums but they never once talked about the saliency ratios of these machines?

The star to delta winding improves the saliency ratios of IPM machines and SPM machines. You have to ask the motorFuhrer for e-traction why would you go back to a distributed winding as old as the late Alois Hiedler with 20 poles when it is already known in industry the significant advantages and torque performance a fractionally slotted concentrated wind has over a traditional integer-slot distributed winding. The only real disadvantage the concentrated wind has is the large space harmonics in the armature windings that lead to increased torque ripple rotor loss and PM eddy current loss. The PM loss at heavy load is of particular interest to a speed plane pilot who operates in these high loading areas where the increased eddy current loss creates excessive heating in the magnets and they become damaged with irreversible demagnetization. Up until that point you will lose efficiency, pullout torque, and lower desynchronization amperage point. To mitigate it and increase the torque output at the same time with simply a concentrated winding amendment is outstanding.

They should be thankful for the tangible offering in a hobby machine. That's equally outstanding and why both individuals point out to one another in Germany that they attend class here in the USA on our forum. They couldn't get a tangible offering on their own forum in 5 years for whatever reasons. But we are not segregated here. So they come in and learn. It's funny because part of what they fell out about is sharing information with US meaning you Americans & ME!!!

So make sure you're aligned correctly! And that you are clear I was never alone or talking to myself anytime anywhere on a forum. They always been there. One says no one knows me and the other claimed they didn't know if I wind motors but they both say my name repeatedly on a forum IM NOT on once a week 7,882 Km away.

Every speed pilot that reads them knows me. They need to keep it real with themselves. I show them ALOT!

What we wanna know is does the 20 pole run in either sector of Germany? Dresden or Bayern!

Where is the data????


Thank you for your time and patience,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Since we do things differently here in America I also ask either of you to provide some published academic information and testing result for a 12N20P distributed wind in the last 20 years from at least 1 degreed electrical engineer ? Seems to me if you were that current and up to date you'd know the most widely used topology in hobby right now is 12 slots with 14 poles. The modal operation of the 14 pole is supposedly better and more even across the core. I can hold my own without an ounce of fallacy I have the data.

Thanks
Hubert

[Clugh]

OH NO! Now it all is a contradiction!

The standard verifiable work results applies to Ralph Okon as well. We'd all like to see verifiable work results with him as well on all things he post and he does not do it either. This tangibility should occur with all people making suggestions in the winding sections. The epithet and fallacy should have never been allowed from the get go. They've both run this same goofy soap opera in America for over 12 years now... But their goal has never been to teach anyone but highlight their respective brands right in the middle of forum technical pages versus a vendors corner where the bs belongs..


Thats why they are all over the hand wound Joker and T motor of Thomas.

The haters are ignorant because all he was trying to do is improve the Joker which he definitely did. He has a pyro 1000 to compete with their high end. Neither will mention it with the same fervor.

WHY?
.

[Clugh]

Yes that may all be the case with him but the Gerling 7/8 for instance you said didn't work to the forum and the only excuse you offered for that conclusion was a higher DC resistance which by itself means nothing without looking at the idle currents. If I know more than the average hobbyist you boast to on an open forum and know better sure I can ask you a question and no one should have to wind it themselves to get the answer if you bring it into the initial view. The entire reason you showed yours was to up him and tell him it wasn't viable so from there you are supposed to provide data to support your conclusion.

Its a simple exchange for anyone playing fair on the forums. You know how its supposed to go.

When you do things like bring up what Hubert Hargett is doing the topic is no longer just about you or YOUR applications. You see my name in your threads? I'm damn sure not your motors application. Your mouth about ceramic hybrids and thermally conductive epoxies.... NONE OF THAT IS YOUR APPLICATION BUT YOU HAD SOMETHING TO SAY about the winding program here in America and me calling me POCBOY. You erased that signatiure you had but i remember it.

"you dont feed black trolls"

Do you remember your epithet Dr Okon? That part of your motors application???

If you all like proxy wars provide some damn data its as simple as that or you could take Thomas's suggestion and be quiet on other peoples projects and TRULY mind you own businesses.

You nor the motorFuhrer can stay in your own lanes for very long.
Just sayin....

[Clugh]

Why don't you both stop making excuse and show them the thing runs if it does. You are the leaders in winding hobby motors correct?

The 14th and 15th paperclips right?

Thermally conductive epoxy worked anywhere you had all that damn UHU smeared all over the place and anything in bearings works as good as a standard 5 dollar NMB in fact Germany manufactures a better steel ball bearing and so do the swiss.

Lastly we never get to see the "no real benefits" data and your proving methodologies that you shared are wrong .

What application do you have that doesnt want a 60 % reduction in pm and rotor losses.


Yeah right.... you're running into demag wall currently and its downing speed planes!!!!

The final piece of the puzzle is why are you camped here then ???? None of it suits your application according to you now....

Thanks,
Hubert

[Clugh]

If all you care about is YOUR own application why were you in here running your mouth?

Why change? a wye and delta combo. - HeliFreak

So I'm not trying to hear that noise

Now that the hybrid is on your doorstep looking for a challenge from your wye wye you say shows no improvement. Your superior asses cannot cash the checks your mouths write.

Run the motor bruh! I want to see it like I showed you the hybrid.

Idle current?
Kv?
Io ?
Rm?


Hubert