Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

A letter of congrats from Christian Lucas from Lehner Motoren, Congrats
Yahoo/CL

• 
  
  Christian
• From:ch.lucas
  To:hubert hargett
  
  Thu, Jul 11 at 4:05 PM
  
  
  Hi Hugh,
  
  Congratulations on the very good engine for Brenner. The difference in consumption clearly shows that your engine consumes significantly less energy than the previous versions. This will really annoy the doc. Plus the counter-rotating drive, which these idiots didn't understand at all. Especially if the reduction ratios are different, unequal performance is delivered to the propellers. You can use this to accelerate the thrust jet even further with the second propeller. But just a counter-rotating drive alone has advantages because you don't have to take the pull and camber angles into account for the propeller shaft. Usually they run completely straight without any angular offset, which alone results in higher propeller efficiency. Freedom from swirl increases efficiency. etc... These speed fliers have no idea at all.
  I'm sorry about the concave boat tail of Ralf Moser's monoboat. I also believe Ralf that he isn't lying to me. He said that he had the boat checked by John Finch and that the boat complied with the regulations. Last year Ralf drove a different mono boat anyway and I couldn't measure the old Corvus. The new boat does not have a concave stern, but has counter-rotating propellers that are now very close together. It also achieved record speeds, which is running very cool. So long.
  I'm not mad at you, we're all just human.
  These fools of speed pilots now have a F100 class regulation. Only 100 volts are ruled and no size and no weight limit. That's why I wrote to them in the forum that they should get a car engine with a battery and ESC and use it to equip an airplane. I would go. Unfortunately, the idiots don't find it funny at all. You're so stubborn.
  
  Greetings Christian

[Clugh]

Annoyed with a lifetime subscription.


Boho1
Today, 07:27 AM

[Clugh]

And Christian thats the entire point he has a new boat so we never see the measurement on the one that came HERE TO THE USA A TOOK A RECORD. See that's just slick street **** im telling yall he pimped IMPBA and NAMBA! Luke im sorry that boat was illegal! These actions solidify that for me. Why he make a new boat and no one was close to the last one. The man said his self he will never bring the boat back to Amerrica

WHY????????????

Moser can gtfoh im coming with a legal boat!

[Clugh]

Who goes to the drag strip run one time and no one gets any get back? Thats not even American bro. That must be a German thing. Thats not how we do it here!!! This NC we drag race heavy here. Err body know you got to back it up at least 1 time..damn...


These dudes want to come down unload the trailer run one time take the purse load they **** back up and go home..

They high as hell bro....

This the south baby it don't work like dat!

[Clugh]

Chris tell Moser bring that 'NEW" boat to Huntsville next year!!!


Hubert

[Clugh]

"Anglophiles"
The letter from Christian will get a remote response from doc croc believe it! Most of the time what he does is copy and paste it back on the German forum and try to get Christian timed out in Germany. LOL were all like little kids about motors....He will say to the mod, his friend, "see he called us all idiots( us is about 5 people on the forum of 1000s) talking to Hubert in America"😭 ....Sometimes that politic actually works too...after he's called me pocboy, and said Christian is my master driving my technical inquiry etc....and that none of our ideas for a better motor work. A grown man crying when someone calls him an idiot for acting like one.



cry baby!!!

I haven't ever reported your epithet and look at your signature Ralph. Boo Hoo

[Clugh]

Boho1
Today, 08:25 AM

Hallo Ralph, da du deinen Freunden in Deutschland von mir und meiner Arbeit erzählt hast, habe ich Christian ermutigt, das Video und die Verbrauchszahlen zu posten und zu sehen, ob es lustig ist. Übrigens werde ich mit der Flut an Anfragen jetzt nicht mehr hinterherkommen. Ich mache mir Sorgen, ob ich mit den Jungs mithalten kann. Vielleicht brauche ich einen Helfer. Hast du Interesse an einem Masterstudiengang?

Du siehst, ich habe die Fernbedienung genommen und in Deutschland auf den Aus-Knopf gedrückt!





Bi Bi,
Hubert

[Clugh]

I'm more excited to see what this is all about. I want to turn a 22 x 20 CRP around 5500 rpm. The first thing I want to know is if the motor can do it reasonably in OEM form then rewind it to do it for less amperage draw.

Woo its alot of coils to wind...😶

I want the P650 out first though so Im winding a 600 and it slowly now. Alot more has come so ill be quite busy the next few weeks it appears. I better get ahead of this now or ill never have any free time.


Thank you for your time and patience
Hubert

[Clugh]

Hi Ralph i see you wont leave now. 😁 I was thinking I could see if the group is interested in bringing Christian into the NDA since he is at Lehner.....and a true master of aviation instrumentation and fuel cell technology. He might have something useful to add and can understand when I talk about things like pyrolytic graphite. You dont know anything about that so I cant talk to you about it and get any traction. I'm also wondering since the 8+8 is already out there should I try instead of your bifilar but a true 3 or 4 layer wind which would stack the conductors radially versus axially if I lay the 3 layer on top of 1 and 2

Hope you understand why that would be better than an axially stacked 2 conductor winding. If the wires are radially stacked the pair see a more even current density per turn. the problem is it is better then to avoid a orthogonal pattern and so you lose space with round wires. It would work better if they were square so you could truly lay the wires radially even side by side. I guess you dont realize that a hybrid winding similar to this would even let you use the bifilar configuration more effectively or even larger mono. You need to think it is particularly relevant with high poles and high speed. Like an outrunner fast electric boat motor or a small 5:1 geared outrunner in a speed plane!

What I may ask Christian to do is process the LRK DIY 45 split tooth of my design and Illl send him the alpha iron plugs. I dont know if I can afford to purchase the EDM this time around. But it is just round one.... I want a DRO for the brand new lathe and a few other things first like the tool post grinder and carbon fiber 3d printer I showed u. I'm also changing all the shop light to LED and trying to build a solid state AC backup power supply for the house. I also want a rotary phase converter on the shop so I can accommodate about 20 hp of 220v 3 phase. When I get a mill I'm going to go ahead and get a nice one like a HAAS mini mill with a tool turret. You don't want to change tools every operation. That will be nonsense if you want to make any kind of numbers. There is also the 250 ampere pulse TIG welder I want. Thats my new hobby. Welding....

Thanks for your time and patience
Hubert

[Clugh]

Master winding from the IEEE.
Is this is too complicated to understand Ralph?

Study.
Execute.
Then Talk.

[Clugh]

I got one group of the 6+6.17 AWG in there neatly, which could lead to a beautiful 2 over and 2 under for the final 8+8 but It wont be easy all the way around the world on totally untouched factory enamel. Last time I sanded the slot and ends and added endplates. I really want this wind to work on an untouched stator because the 650s have come to me so clean . Less thermal resistors between the iron and copper id always prefer when possible. So If I can wind on fresh epoxy bathed stator or raw iron I think its better than kapton or nomex slot liner because I can pot it directly to the iron with epoxy with 3 times Kapton's thermal conductivity so why use a slot liner at all if I'm going to glue the wires to the iron and themselves ultimately in a vacuum chamber, In the other photo u can see how easy it is to displace the soft iron. I simply pushed that back down flat with the broadside of a flathead screwdriver and forget about it as soon as possible. You really have to watch and be careful how you pull the wire off the bobbin. I could have fixed it b4 the photo but were all human. It wont hurt anything but yes Ralph I made a fixed boo boo. Oh well.

Stop hatin you know the coil looks great in the slot. That's the focus....the room for 67% increase in copper cross section ill have in the slot over a factory 650 operating at the right Kv for the VLV counter rotational coaxial drive.

This VLV Aussie "anlgophile" $2000.00 drive is less than 600 grams with the pyro 650 Ralph😀. I'm going to strap in a Clugh competition pyro 650 rewind that exceeds the copper fil of Kontronics 600 euro Factory Black Competition Pyro 650 Motor. We gone feed the 600.00 black troll some more copper, a master rebuild with hybrids and he's going to the F3A WC's

Wanna see?

Watch....




Hubert

[Clugh]

You also know from a 8+8 YY copper crazy shown that a 7+7 delta in 17 awg easily fits and is considerably more copper than the standard pyro 650. Considerably more. I may wind that in a dlrk evolution next because it will weight a little less and may be the better compliment in delta with the applicable six step drive on BLHELI architecture. For a 4 layer hybrid machine that is superbly clean harmonically You could serially connect a superimposed and shifted wye winding into this style delta winding quite easily. You have to adjust the turns. The delta terminals are the wyes pigtails.....

[Clugh]

Look boys I told you he mad....

07-10-2024, 02:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
TheRealBrenner Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Mar 2024 Location: USA, Michigan	I found Someone to Rewind Motors for Me... I found someone local to the United States to rewind motors for me. Hugh Hargett from North Carolina has rewound a ten-pole Pyro 600 for me, and I have successfully tested it in my Hui Yang Advantage Biplane. Hugh's rewound motor runs very well. The performance is identical to that of Bert Dekker's motors. The efficiency is also very good. I can't properly judge motor efficiency without flying the motor on separate days under different weather conditions because there was very little wind, and the amplitude and direction of the wind significantly affect power consumption. However, with very little wind, I recorded a flight with the lowest energy consumption I have ever seen with my setup, 2600mah for the P25 schedule. Typical power consumption for P25 is 3800mah. I will continue flying with this motor to collect more information about motor efficiency. The motor also ran cool as well. With an ambient temperature of 28C, the motor was 65C on the outside of the rotor. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VkG...usp=drive_link https://drive.google.com/file/d/19-H...ew?usp=sharing

Today, 12:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
powercroco Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2011	Great ! Last edited by powercroco; Today at 10:21 AM..

Danke
Hubert

[Clugh]

Is there Anyone Who Can Rewind my Motor - HeliFreak



Who I tell you I was talking to remotely?

The scorpion king still hasn't potted the windings yet Christian. What's going on? On Croco-world 🐊 social media? 😀 I know you are here. You signed up yesterday. 😁

Thanks for joining and enjoy the ride.... now the entire gang is here...

See how I bring everyone back together with my "monolog" ?

Do you also realize that's the first new post in Heli freak motor construction forum since march? He doesn't contribute anything there anymore. Poor freaks...

[Clugh]

Good morning America!

Boho1
Today, 07:38 AM



I've ordered a 3M EPX applicator gun for applying the thermally conductive adhesives. We have one that is 3 times more conductive than the current version to test.

[Clugh]

And more about slot wedges. Has the expert on the GSM considered closing the slot with copper or aluminum shielding tape? I dont know what the Mu is but between 1.5 to 3 Mu should work. The magnovol is 2. Material thickness also plays a roll here. The sample sheet of magnovol I have here is approx 3mm. But since this is truly a metal wedge very thin you'd have to test it. You could probably just look at the BEMF and FFT capture and make some determinations about its effectiveness. A copper mesh across the slot may be even better.

[Clugh]

MAGNETIC SLOT WEDGES FOR USE IN OPEN SLOT ELECTRIC MOTORS

Magnatuff is a magnetically conductive glass cloth laminated composite, suitable for use in Class F insulated electric machines (conforming to G-11 specifications) , as Slot Wedges in stators of open slot designs.

Magnatuff is used as a slot wedge in open slot design motors, and it’s advantages over conventional non-magnetic slot wedges are:

• Elimination of high frequency slot harmonic effects.
• Effective air-gap length reduction, resulting in a lower magnetising current and hence improved power factor.
• Air gap flux density profile improvement resulting in reduction of high frequency surface and pulsation losses, which are main constituents of stray losses.
• Improved efficiency and power factor, resulting in compact motor designs.

[Clugh]

Magnetic and non Magnetic Slot Wedges

SPIndustries Slot Wedges are made of either magnetic or nonmagnetic Material, being used as Slot Closures to hold the stator windings in the slots formed between the stator teeth.

Slot wedges made of magnetic material are a significant means to improve the efficiency of a motor or generator. Magnetic slot wedges reduce slot ripple in the air gap flux caused by the changing reluctance due to the slots, and also reduce the associated eddy current losses due to the interaction of the harmonics in the air gap flux with the conducting surface of the rotor.
The magnetizing current required in the stator windings to generate the desired air gap flux is less with magnetic slot wedges, since more of the air gap flux is available for useful power production.

Magnetic slot wedges reduce starting current, improve cos phi and load current, and lead to reduced iron loss (core loss). Typical reduction of iron loss is in the range of some kW depending on the type of machine. This means a corresponding
value of some thousand Euros, when calculating the machine prize. So it is obvious that additional costs for high performance
slot wedges clearly pay off.

Conventional slot wedges are that weak that they often are not fulfilling the mechanical needs so that some companies are
not using magnetic wedges any more.

The mechanical properties of SPInduwedge – a new generation of magnetic slot wedges – are surpassing that of conventional
magnetic slot wedges (made out of laminated material) by far and it is to mention that they are in the range of non
magnetic (i.e. unfilled) glass fiber reinforced material, some non magnetic material they are even surpassing.

Further, our magnetic Slot wedges are not produced from Sheets which means a massive Improvement since cutting and grinding of Sheets with High Glass Content has a Major Impact on Health.

[Clugh]

Carbonyl and PLA composite should work really well for the semi magnetic wedge. This way you dont have to worry about cutting a sheet of magnovol. These are master tuning tools. In America you can get more than a dl wye motor winding and standard NMB bearings. These well known and documented motor tuning tools are obviously beyond the scope of study for scorpions Aryan winding machine..

[Clugh]

The wedges can also broaden the higher efficiency band. You get better efficiency across a wider range not just an increase at the maximum point