P-38 - The Ultimate EPO Lightning

Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

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  • Captain MoMo
    Mach One

    • Nov 2016
    • 69
    • Maryland, USA
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    #3401
    Originally posted by Airguardian
    I will just say that those using the stabs only for pitch on this jet are offending the Gods and will burn in hell for eternity.
    Can you please advise us mortals on how you recommend the controls to be setup? Tailerons? 😄

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    • fredmdbud
      Member

      • Feb 2015
      • 450
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      #3402
      Originally posted by Airguardian
      I will just say that those using the stabs only for pitch on this jet are offending the Gods and will burn in hell for eternity.
      Then I shall bring some marshmallows, graham crackers and chocolate to make myself at home.

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      • fredmdbud
        Member

        • Feb 2015
        • 450
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        #3403
        Originally posted by RudyD54

        That’s interesting as the promodeler claims higher torque (70oz@4.8v) than the hitec d85mg(50oz@4.8v). 🤔
        His problem was not the torque, it was the servo speed at that voltage (0.20 sec).

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        • viper1gj
          Member

          • Feb 2020
          • 81
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          #3404
          Originally posted by Captain MoMo
          Can you please advise us mortals on how you recommend the controls to be setup? Tailerons? 😄
          Yes. I'm using a 30% mix from ailerons to stabs for full time roll control. It's an easy function to do in my Jeti radio. It is essential IMO for high AOA roll control where the up going aileron is ineffective and the down going aileron is mostly drag creating adverse yaw. The roll control from the stabs makes it very controllable. I fly all my full flying stab jets this way.
          Gary

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          • mshagg
            Member

            • Jan 2020
            • 541
            • South Australia
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            #3405
            Originally posted by viper1gj

            Yes. I'm using a 30% mix from ailerons to stabs for full time roll control. It's an easy function to do in my Jeti radio. It is essential IMO for high AOA roll control where the up going aileron is ineffective and the down going aileron is mostly drag creating adverse yaw. The roll control from the stabs makes it very controllable. I fly all my full flying stab jets this way.
            Gary
            Do you reduce the pitch weight as well for your taileron mix (i.e. to keep overall travel at around 39mm)?

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            • viper1gj
              Member

              • Feb 2020
              • 81
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              #3406
              Originally posted by mshagg
              Do you reduce the pitch weight as well for your taileron mix (i.e. to keep overall travel at around 39mm)?
              No, I did not even consider that. I just activated the mix with 30% roll input from ailerons and never measured it. I don't think it is critical. I may bump the mix up to 50% next time out just to see if it makes any more difference. I've used up to 50% on my big F-16 with great success especially at high AOA slow flight and slow high AOA rolling maneuvers.

              If you are going medium to fast speed it rolls fast and feels very responsive. If you are very slow with a very high AOA, I mean like at 30-45 degree pitch attitude in level flight, it makes a huge difference in roll control, from almost none and sloppy to very controllable. In normal faster flight I am usually not, almost like never, at full elevator and full aileron at the same time so I wouldn't worry much about exceeding 39mm throw. If you do use max roll and pitch commands, it is for a very short time and then your commanding something else quickly.

              Overall it just really rolls well at normal speeds and is much more controllable at very high AOA when slow. Also, I think it really helps when at approach speed to landing because you are slower and at a higher AOA there also. Give it a try, you will like it.

              Gary

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              • Evan D
                I'll fly anything

                • Jan 2016
                • 5386
                • Charlotte
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                #3407
                My mix is 50%...

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                • viper1gj
                  Member

                  • Feb 2020
                  • 81
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                  #3408
                  Originally posted by Evan D
                  My mix is 50%...
                  Thanks, I'll bump mine to 50% next time out.

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                  • Airguardian
                    Post Stall Svengali

                    • Aug 2020
                    • 1664
                    • Catalonia
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                    #3409
                    Originally posted by Captain MoMo
                    Can you please advise us mortals on how you recommend the controls to be setup? Tailerons? 😄
                    There you have it. :)

                    What Viper said.
                    And if you want to get into post-stall maneuvering throw in a position on your rates with full throws and much more expo.

                    Comment

                    • Captain MoMo
                      Mach One

                      • Nov 2016
                      • 69
                      • Maryland, USA
                      • Send PM

                      #3410
                      Originally posted by viper1gj

                      Yes. I'm using a 30% mix from ailerons to stabs for full time roll control. It's an easy function to do in my Jeti radio. It is essential IMO for high AOA roll control where the up going aileron is ineffective and the down going aileron is mostly drag creating adverse yaw. The roll control from the stabs makes it very controllable. I fly all my full flying stab jets this way.
                      Gary
                      Thanks Gary - so by using a 30% mix you mean on a roll command the elevators will act as ailerons (tailerons) with movement that is limited to 30% of full elevator throw? So both ailerons and elevators will roll the model?

                      Comment

                      • mshagg
                        Member

                        • Jan 2020
                        • 541
                        • South Australia
                        • Send PM

                        #3411
                        Originally posted by viper1gj

                        No, I did not even consider that. I just activated the mix with 30% roll input from ailerons and never measured it. I don't think it is critical. I may bump the mix up to 50% next time out just to see if it makes any more difference. I've used up to 50% on my big F-16 with great success especially at high AOA slow flight and slow high AOA rolling maneuvers.

                        If you are going medium to fast speed it rolls fast and feels very responsive. If you are very slow with a very high AOA, I mean like at 30-45 degree pitch attitude in level flight, it makes a huge difference in roll control, from almost none and sloppy to very controllable. In normal faster flight I am usually not, almost like never, at full elevator and full aileron at the same time so I wouldn't worry much about exceeding 39mm throw. If you do use max roll and pitch commands, it is for a very short time and then your commanding something else quickly.

                        Overall it just really rolls well at normal speeds and is much more controllable at very high AOA when slow. Also, I think it really helps when at approach speed to landing because you are slower and at a higher AOA there also. Give it a try, you will like it.

                        Gary
                        Thanks Gary, really appreciate the thoughtful response. Agree that it should be a very rare occasion where you're exploring the full extent of the travel - my primary concern is that the leading edge of the horizontal stab will foul on the vertical stab once you go beyond the 39mm called out in the manual. Probably having a bad day if you're at full forward stick in high rates anyway!

                        Tailerons have been on the to-do list since the last time jandro shamed us for not using them lol. But with a lot of testing, lots of other planes to crash and one trip to the field a week I havent gotten around to it.

                        On the F-14 i stole RCGeek's programming methodology which is primarily tailerons for roll but with trailing-edge up ailerons on the wings (when extended). Really like the linear feel it provides and, i'll probably get told off for saying so, it reduces the amount of rudder needed to keep the nose pointed where you want it.

                        Comment

                        • paulrkytek
                          Member

                          • Jun 2019
                          • 526
                          • North of England
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                          #3412
                          Would you need the taileron mix with thrust vectoring or will the vectoring compensate for the aileron control reduction in effectiveness in high alpha ????\

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                          • mshagg
                            Member

                            • Jan 2020
                            • 541
                            • South Australia
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                            #3413
                            Originally posted by paulrkytek
                            Would you need the taileron mix with thrust vectoring or will the vectoring compensate for the aileron control reduction in effectiveness in high alpha ????\
                            I imagine the brave souls flying this jet post stall will take every little bit of control they can. That is the recommended setup for the Sukhoi.

                            The large features on the tail end of this jet will look pretty awesome wriggling around like medusa's head.

                            Comment

                            • Airguardian
                              Post Stall Svengali

                              • Aug 2020
                              • 1664
                              • Catalonia
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                              #3414
                              Aye!
                              You just don't throw away your options to control the plane, take advantage of them all instead!
                              (...Canards excluded!) rofl

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                              • janmb
                                Slow and low

                                • Jan 2018
                                • 729
                                • Send PM

                                #3415
                                Originally posted by Airguardian
                                I will just say that those using the stabs only for pitch on this jet are offending the Gods and will burn in hell for eternity.
                                +1!
                                Freewing A-10 turbine conversion: http://fb.me/FreewingA10TurbineConversion

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                                • Evan D
                                  I'll fly anything

                                  • Jan 2016
                                  • 5386
                                  • Charlotte
                                  • Send PM

                                  #3416
                                  I just went out and made a video of my mixing. Tailerons, full span flaps, crow and rudder airbrakes.

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                                  • paulrkytek
                                    Member

                                    • Jun 2019
                                    • 526
                                    • North of England
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                                    #3417
                                    Originally posted by Evan D
                                    I just went out and made a video of my mixing. Tailerons, full span flaps, crow and rudder airbrakes.

                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjf3px05o8I
                                    Very informative video Evan, although I am not buying this jet its still worth posing questions, you never know I might change my mind next year!!!

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                                    • Evan D
                                      I'll fly anything

                                      • Jan 2016
                                      • 5386
                                      • Charlotte
                                      • Send PM

                                      #3418
                                      I have the same on my OV-10 Bronco, Arrows MiG29, F-22 and F-18. Full span ailerons too on the F-22. On the OV-10 I also have differential throttles. There are other planes like a FPV Grand Cruiser, and my gliders, that got some, but not all, of it.

                                      The set up in the video is all neutral in flight too so I can use it all and not worry about it. The elevator comp is correct.

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                                      • mshagg
                                        Member

                                        • Jan 2020
                                        • 541
                                        • South Australia
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                                        #3419
                                        Thanks Evan for the useful video, definitely taking some notes!

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                                        • John Bergsmith
                                          Member

                                          • Mar 2019
                                          • 189
                                          • Concord, NC
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                                          #3420
                                          Originally posted by Evan D
                                          I just went out and made a video of my mixing. Tailerons, full span flaps, crow and rudder airbrakes.

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjf3px05o8I
                                          Excellent video Evan!

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