Official Freewing B-2 Spirit Bomber 86" Twin 70mm EDF Jet

[osuzoo08]

I didn't like the fiddling with rulers while setting up the control surfaces, so two gauges were created and printed. +/- 25mm for the rudders, 8mm Up trim for the inboard control surfaces measured at wing bottom. In case someone is interested in the STL files, I'll put them on cults3d. Just let me know.

I would love if you posted those

[xviper]

A picture tells a thousand words... (e.g. this one from the manual of the very similar HobbyEagle A3S3 Gyro is very clear)

I thought about that diagram myself but there's one potential anomaly ..................................... Notice how the gain (G) pin on the gyro is fed by the black (dark) wire of the 3 wire lead? Then it goes (single wire) to the "master gain" port at the RX. (The HE and E-52 gyro uses a 3-wire lead than ends in 3 separate single wires with their own plugs. A private individual would use a standard 3-wire to 3-wire female/female extension.) Those who have "polarity" on the brain will then plug that end with the single black wire to "ground", in which case, it WON'T work. That black lead must go to the "signal" pin on the RX port. Plus, on the B-2, if a person used a 3-wire lead, it may be necessary to either pull out the other two ends in the plug or clip the other two wires to prevent any signal interference because the RX will send power through the middle wire and the remaining wire is grounded.

[kallend]

I thought about that diagram myself but there's one potential anomaly ..................................... Notice how the gain (G) pin on the gyro is fed by the black (dark) wire of the 3 wire lead? Then it goes (single wire) to the "master gain" port at the RX. (The HE and E-52 gyro uses a 3-wire lead than ends in 3 separate single wires with their own plugs. A private individual would use a standard 3-wire to 3-wire female/female extension.) .

I'm a "private individual" and I had no problem connecting it up correctly, based on the diagram.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I used a well maintained battery, IR values in the 4,x range.

For some reason, those IR values seem high to me. I assume you're talking about individual cell IR's in mohms, no? As some of you know, I've been way too deep in testing different batteries for the last few years and using the Progressive IR meter, I've gotten the following results on various 6S batteries:
SMC 8100: 1.8-1.6, SMC 6200: 1.37-1.14, SMC 5300: 1.61-1.42, HRB 6000: 1.97-1.79, Roaring Top 6250: 3.21-2.96, Admiral 6000: Pro 3.27-2.96 Admiral 5000: 4.01-3.64.

As far as power draws, your numbers look OK, but I've found that the difference between an Admiral 5000 at the high end of the IR curve and say the SMC 5300 results in at least 8-10 Ah more and about about 250-300 Watts more. Out of curiosity, what pack are you using?

[kallend]

For some reason, those IR values seem high to me. I assume you're talking about individual cell IR's in mohms, no? As some of you know, I've been way too deep in testing different batteries for the last few years and using the Progressive IR meter, I've gotten the following results on various 6S batteries:
SMC 8100: 1.8-1.6, SMC 6200: 1.37-1.14, SMC 5300: 1.61-1.42, HRB 6000: 1.97-1.79, Roaring Top 6250: 3.21-2.96, Admiral 6000: Pro 3.27-2.96 Admiral 5000: 4.01-3.64.

As far as power draws, your numbers look OK, but I've found that the difference between an Admiral 5000 at the high end of the IR curve and say the SMC 5300 results in at least 8-10 Ah more and about about 250-300 Watts more. Out of curiosity, what pack are you using?

Also worth bearing in mind is that a 10 degree C (18F) temperature drop can lead to a doubling of IR values. Cold packs don't perform well.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Onboard telemetry (real time display on TX) showed peak value of slightly above 100 A.The Amp draw stabilised at around 90 A, no unusual sag of Voltage. That‘s close to 500W

On second thought, that doesn't seem right, or it's very low. Watts=Amps X Volts. So 2,520 Watts (that's both fans together, not each fan) = 100 Amps X 25.2 Volts (a single 6S Cell). 2,520 watts for 2 70mm fans is anemic. The 70mm FMS Fans I put in an SU-30 draw (together) 150.9 Ah and 3,750 watts using an SMC 6200. Using and Admiral or other battery more like 135 Ah and 3400 watts. At 90Ah, you're down to 2250 watts (for both fans together). I have rubber bands that work better!

[xviper]

I'm a "private individual" and I had no problem connecting it up correctly, based on the diagram.

I supposed I should have used a different term, perhaps "average" or "inexperienced in gyro set up". We've already seen this on RC Guppy where a couple of people have hooked up the master gain and it didn't work and they spoke of "standard polarity".




The next thing coming down the pike is the use of the HE programmer on this E-52. Several have indicated that it did not work, however, one person made it work by unplugging the power and plugging the battery back in again. Now I'm beginning to wonder if updating the HE programmer would make it work every time. It would seem that the HE programmer needs an update to work well with the new A3S4.

[kallend]

I supposed I should have used a different term, perhaps "average" or "inexperienced in gyro set up". We've already seen this on RC Guppy where a couple of people have hooked up the master gain and it didn't work and they spoke of "standard polarity".




The next thing coming down the pike is the use of the HE programmer on this E-52. Several have indicated that it did not work, however, one person made it work by unplugging the power and plugging the battery back in again. Now I'm beginning to wonder if updating the HE programmer would make it work every time. It would seem that the HE programmer needs an update to work well with the new A3S4.

You only need to change one bit in a device ID to make them incompatible. So even if functionally equivalent the E52 may have been deliberately made incompatible. I don't know anything about the effect of power cycling.

For first flights I would not recommend messing with the gyro anyway.

[Radar-Guy]

Thanks guys! The IR values were measured with a Junsi 4010 charger and my Lipos with such or lower value are powering my planes just fine. The outside temperature was considered as well, we had 20 deg C.
About the voltage: Who is using onboard telemetry or logging? You will NEVER get 4,2 V/cell under "standard EDF loads". It also of not much value to marvel at peak power, which was available for a few seconds. Have a look at performance charts published by serious EDF manufacturers like Wemotec or Ejets/Jetfan, where "stabilised" voltages during their testing was around 3,7V/cell. This is also the reason for the fantastic thrust values for fans from China. Power a fan unit with a steady 25,2V power supply and WOW!!!

I didn't fit a logger yesterday, just a real-time module. I will add one next time. Here is an example of a logged flight. Single FMS 70mm EDF, 6s, 3060-1900 kV, RT Lipo.
Red graph shows current, blue one Voltage

@ Hugh: Since you were involved in battery testing, could you show me one of your in-flight recordings? I'd love to replace my rubber bands!

[xviper]

You only need to change one bit in a device ID to make them incompatible. So even if functionally equivalent the E52 may have been deliberately made incompatible. I don't know anything about the effect of power cycling.

For first flights I would not recommend messing with the gyro anyway.

That is true and indisputable.
See my post #574 for updated and corrected information.
I agree that the first flights should be with gyro as is, however, doesn't hurt to hook up the master gain and leave it at 100% to allow the set gains to do their thing. At least that way, if oscillation occurs, it can be reduced or turned off. I see no sense in increasing travel on the rotary to above 100% until the set gains can be altered.

[Radar-Guy]

I would love if you posted those

Files are available here:
https://cults3d.com/de/modell-3d/ver...ce-setup-tools

Note: the rudder setup tool is currently symmetrical in regard to up/down deflection. 22,5 mm per direction. During my setup, the "closed' position - the "TE" of both rudder surfaces - was 2-3 mm below the wing tip's TE. I've corrected this by adjusting both rudder surfaces by equal amounts to get both TEs level.

[Radar-Guy]

Single wheel main gear conversion finished, the nose gear wheels were also exchanged (50mm). Reverting to stock main struts can be done in less than 10 minutes, no foam had to be cut at this point. Positive AoA is retained.

[crxmanpat]

"Spirit of the Weeds"

[jasmith41]

Yah, I think this one is a complete disaster and would be more than happy to relieve you of it for say a 50% discount, which is obviously well more than it is worth. Seriously, you haven't even unboxed it and you're listening to a few crazies instead of the designers and those that have been flying it for over a year and are raving about it? Finish it out, set it up as the those real experts tell you to and just have a blast with it and stop whining!

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😆😆😆😎 "and stop whining..."

Save the whining for the maiden if you don't set it up right...

[jasmith41]

I swear to God, if you guys keep posting all this sh*t about how great that plane is, I'll f*ck up again and go buy one without prior approval from the war department (wife)...😂😂😂

Just keep it up...

[jasmith41]

I thought about that diagram myself but there's one potential anomaly ..................................... Notice how the gain (G) pin on the gyro is fed by the black (dark) wire of the 3 wire lead? Then it goes (single wire) to the "master gain" port at the RX. (The HE and E-52 gyro uses a 3-wire lead than ends in 3 separate single wires with their own plugs. A private individual would use a standard 3-wire to 3-wire female/female extension.) Those who have "polarity" on the brain will then plug that end with the single black wire to "ground", in which case, it WON'T work. That black lead must go to the "signal" pin on the RX port. Plus, on the B-2, if a person used a 3-wire lead, it may be necessary to either pull out the other two ends in the plug or clip the other two wires to prevent any signal interference because the RX will send power through the middle wire and the remaining wire is grounded.

They said there'd be no math...

[jasmith41]

On second thought, that doesn't seem right, or it's very low. Watts=Amps X Volts. So 2,520 Watts (that's both fans together, not each fan) = 100 Amps X 25.2 Volts (a single 6S Cell). 2,520 watts for 2 70mm fans is anemic. The 70mm FMS Fans I put in an SU-30 draw (together) 150.9 Ah and 3,750 watts using an SMC 6200. Using and Admiral or other battery more like 135 Ah and 3400 watts. At 90Ah, you're down to 2250 watts (for both fans together). I have rubber bands that work better!

Too much math...😆😎

[MeyerVW]

Ready to fly. I think the only thing that could have been done or upgraded is the rudder rods. I had some issues and it took me a a while to set it up correctly. To solve this I would replace the rods with tie rod style rods and end. Just one end has to be reverse threaded and one end is reverse thread. Simply twist and off you go. The factory way is not bad but it gave of us some problems. Tested it on the road and it goes nice and straight during testing. Fast and slow. Looks like Sunday will be my day to test it.

[xviper]

Ready to fly. I think the only thing that could have been done or upgraded is the rudder rods. I had some issues and it took me a a while to set it up correctly. To solve this I would replace the rods with tie rod style rods and end. Just one end has to be reverse threaded and one end is reverse thread. Simply twist and off you go. The factory way is not bad but it gave of us some problems. Tested it on the road and it goes nice and straight during testing. Fast and slow. Looks like Sunday will be my day to test it.

I see what you're getting at ........................... "Turnbuckle" style. Good idea.

[Gilatrout]

Photo op at the field today.