Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[xviper]

1stflightdave I’m going take a guess as to why you want to get some electronic help in landing this plane. My guess is based on my own early experiences with this plane. It was notorious for the “bouncy, bouncy, kangaroo” thing when landing (for me). I changed out the main struts for trailing links and this helped to some degree but didn’t fix the “bunny hop”. Then I put in a HobbyEagle gyro, thinking that this would make it land better. Well, it did ........... about 1/2 the time. In retrospect, I don’t think the gyro did a thing for the landing. I think it was because I was getting better at figuring out how to do it —- regulating the throttle better on approach, trying different degrees of flaps from no flaps to full flaps. I don’t bounce this plane anymore. Took out the gyro and used it for another plane that was more affected by crosswinds. This plane is heavy enough and big enough that even crosswinds don’t bother it much.
Now, let’s turn to another really big, heavy jet - Eflite twin 70mm SU-30. It has “safe select”. I’ve used “safe” for landing and not used it for landing. It seems to make no difference. What safe select does is to limit the bank angle so you don’t over control it when you are new to the hobby. However, using safe select makes for very labored, long, wide turning circles - almost scary wide. I use safe select only when I get distracted with other planes in the air. It’s easy to over control when you’re watching another plane in the corner of your eye to avoid a collision.

[Phantom]

I think Xviper nailed it. In my personal experience either with RC planes or the real deal the key to a good landing is energy management. A gyro won't give you any help in that case. You manage your energy/speed/inertia with throttle and pitch, neither of which a gyro manages. Case and point with a gyro on I'm sure it wouldn't be an impossibility for you to fly a model down to a runway, just by decreasing the throttle a little to cause a decent, due to the gyro keeping your pitch level. So if you had a mile or two of runway and could touch down as I described, without bouncing, you'd still be at way too fast an airspeed that the smallest imperfection in the runway environment, be it a pebble or otherwise, or even a change in wind direction or speed, even a puff, would cause your model to become airborne again, no doubt ending with disastrous results.

I think that's my longest run on sentence ever! My highly educated wife would be so proud!

Bottom line, this model is a breeze to land. Swap out the mains, and move the CG back 15 top 20mm from the manuals recommendation and she'll practically land herself, easy touchdown on the mains everytime. Just moving the CG back and not swapping out the mains would most likely solve the bronco issues, I just didn't figure out the CG solution until after I swapped my mains. The main reason for the bronco effect is all that weight forward of the actual CG turning your nose gear into a pogo stick on touchdown as that unbalanceed weight slams forward.

I'd recommend not flying the A-10 considering it's a sizable monetary investment, until you are comfortable with unassisted landings.

[Dirk.S]

G'day from downunder guys. Keen watcher and likely owner in the near future. Quick question, the infamous bouncing on landing is that mostly a hard surface runway issue, and less so on grass? (I have noted the comments above about moving the cg back a bit from the manual)

[Phantom]

G'day from downunder guys. Keen watcher and likely owner in the near future. Quick question, the infamous bouncing on landing is that mostly a hard surface runway issue, and less so on grass? (I have noted the comments above about moving the cg back a bit from the manual)

Grass is more forgiving, but honestly it's the ground underneath the grass that would decided the probability of a bounce. Softer flat ground would absorb more, hard compact dirt that's hilly or uneven wouldn't be much better than asphalt or concrete.

Bottom line move the CG back and you've reduced the possibility of a bronco by a personal estimation of 80%. Swap out the mains for the upgraded ones and move the CG back and I don't think I could cause it to bronco.

[xviper]

I agree with Phantom. I've bounced this plane on both grass and GeoTex when the plane was new. I don't bounce it anymore on either now, unless I have a lapse in judgement and technique.

[1stflightdave]

I sure do appreciate the information you guys are giving me. I did buy the up graded mains and I only fly off grass. moving the cg back and I will give it a try thx again

[Dirk.S]

G'day from downunder guys. Keen watcher and likely owner in the near future. Quick question, the infamous bouncing on landing is that mostly a hard surface runway issue, and less so on grass? (I have noted the comments above about moving the cg back a bit from the manual)

I've now clicked that crazy button and ordered one, as well as a set of retract upgrades!

[Phantom]

I've now clicked that crazy button and ordered one, as well as a set of retract upgrades!

Congrats, nothing else flies quite like it. It flies just like what you observe watching the real one.

[Dirk.S]

Congrats, nothing else flies quite like it. It flies just like what you observe watching the real one.

Great to hear. I had the FMS V1 until I lost it due to a receiver issue, and currently have the new Eflite one so I look forward to giving this one a run!

[Elbee]

I've now clicked that crazy button and ordered one, as well as a set of retract upgrades!

DS, Congratulations, looking forward to pics of your build and your thoughts. Best, LB

[kevrc]

New to this thread, its a long one and I haven't read it all.
I just put one of these together and got in the maiden and a couple other flights.
The maiden when well with a great landing.
Second landing was about the opposite with the bronco bounce.
The third was somewhere in the middle.
Bottom line a new nose gear retract and the plastic gear mounting block is on order.
Any tricks or tips on how to get the plastic gear mounting out without destroying the front of the plane?
I have the gear out and ready for surgery!
Loved the plane though!
Thanks

[ParaCanary]

New to this thread, its a long one and I haven't read it all.
I just put one of these together and got in the maiden and a couple other flights.
The maiden when well with a great landing.
Second landing was about the opposite with the bronco bounce.
The third was somewhere in the middle.
Bottom line a new nose gear retract and the plastic gear mounting block is on order.
Any tricks or tips on how to get the plastic gear mounting out without destroying the front of the plane?
I have the gear out and ready for surgery!
Loved the plane though!
Thanks

I did buy that plastic gear mount as a spare but never had to use it. I would not separate the fuse to remove the old piece. Instead, I would dremel out the old piece leaving the mounting brackets in the foam in place. Then cut the mounting brackets off the new piece and just glue it in place with maybe some reinforcement here and there. doesn't have to be strong. preferable, if the nose wheel hits first you want the plastic gear mount to become loose and slip.

[themudduck]

New to this thread, its a long one and I haven't read it all.
I just put one of these together and got in the maiden and a couple other flights.
The maiden when well with a great landing.
Second landing was about the opposite with the bronco bounce.
The third was somewhere in the middle.
Bottom line a new nose gear retract and the plastic gear mounting block is on order.
Any tricks or tips on how to get the plastic gear mounting out without destroying the front of the plane?
I have the gear out and ready for surgery!
Loved the plane though!
Thanks

Hi there Kevin,

Several weeks go I was working on a friend's A10 that had crashed (pancaked) and the plastic nose gear mount was completely destroyed. This large piece of plastic is glued into place when the fuse halves are put together at the factory. By working very carefully I was able to split the fuselage in half along the seam. All you need to do is split it at the nose.

Take the nose gear, doors, and servos out... then remove the plastic nose cone/cannon (its glued on, you can pry it off. In my case, the nose cone was destroyed!). You must also break out all the remains of the original NG mount. I used a pair of pliers to pry everything out and break the plastic pieces out. Then use a sharp knife to cut through the mating line at the nose and you can carefully separate the left and right side of the fuselage. Its not a big cut!! Once its cut the two halves will easily spread apart to provide enough access so that you can pry out what remains of the plastic mount which is glued into the fuse sides. Once you get it all out, you'll be able to glue the brand new one in (epoxy) and put everything back together. Booyah!.

In the case of the plane I was working on, the nose gear ripped out a lot of structure behind the mount as well. (Third picture) I replaced the crushed sections, used a new door, used filler and got everything back into shape, then used color-matched paints to bring it back into shape. The model had lots of other damage as well, but the nose was the hardest part.

This is almost pornographic.... but here are a few pics to cry over.
Happy ending - the last pic shows the finished results (with a replacement nose cone and new decal)

[Elbee]

themudduck, Great to see you making a post. That is some serious neuro-surgery. Looks new and great information, Sir. Best, LB

[themudduck]

themudduck, Great to see you making a post. That is some serious neuro-surgery. Looks new and great information, Sir. Best, LB

Thank you. You know, my flying buddy wanted to trash the model after the crash. He tore up the nose (and ripped the gear and the mount clear out), but also scraped off the main gear, all of the pylons, broke three wing servos, ripped out a flap... one of the main gear put a hole in the LE of the stab and ripped a fin off - and so I purchased the wreck from him for spare parts (hey the motors and fans were good). But I started working on it.... first the pylons (I just glued all the pieces together, filled, and repainted them) and I kept going one piece at a time.... the nose was the last part and I didn't think I would be able to do it (that nose gear mount is a real P.I.T.A.). Maybe I should have done a repair thread. At the time I didn't think it was going to go in that direction. Anyway now, its completely fixed and flying... and now I have two hogs (the other one is just sitting in storage~!)

[kevrc]

Yikes kind of what I was afraid of! Nice job themudduck.
After looking mine over I may be able to avoid the surgery.
Thanks for the info!
The front two mounting bolts pulled out.
The rest of the plastic mounting block is in tact, with no damage to the foam.
On the left side (looking at the bottom) a hole all the way through to the inside is exposed.
I will fill that with a hardwood block.
On the right side I can epoxy the plastic back into place, or drill it out for a piece of hardwood.
This should be and out patient fix in my case.
If not I have the pieces on order to do the major surgery!
Thanks again!

[themudduck]

Yikes kind of what I was afraid of! Nice job themudduck.
After looking mine over I may be able to avoid the surgery.
Thanks for the info!
The front two mounting bolts pulled out.
The rest of the plastic mounting block is in tact, with no damage to the foam.
On the left side (looking at the bottom) a hole all the way through to the inside is exposed.
I will fill that with a hardwood block.
On the right side I can epoxy the plastic back into place, or drill it out for a piece of hardwood.
This should be and out patient fix in my case.
If not I have the pieces on order to do the major surgery!
Thanks again!

Hey Kev,

In my case the entire mount was destroyed. But if your mount is mostly OK, I agree with your plan, just epoxy in some hardwood blocks to provide a firm mount for the screws and it should be fine!
The mount is simply a thin layer of plastic - so please replace that broken part with hardwood.

[crxmanpat]

I filled mine with hardwood block too, then used long wood screws. Works great.

[Warbird Mike]

Hey Guy's, I want to say first off this is a very good thread and I have learned a lot from you craftsman out there. I finally got to maiden my Hog this past Sunday and she flew like a dream after trimming out reduced to under half throttle and just enjoyed the scale looks and flight. She flies like a trainer, however I had the Ole A-10 bounce and now I am having to chop, cut and rebuild. I just wanted to tell you guy's that your wealth of knowledge and experiences has given me the confidence to tackle the rebuild and refinishing which I actually enjoy but I would rather be flying instead. I have not looked the FS colors yet to repaint. If you got them handy I would appreciate it and any tips. Thanks Sarge

[crxmanpat]

So I finally got off my duff and made some decals for the Sidewinders. I still have decal sets for sale that include decals for the AN/ALQ131, 2 Mavericks and 2 Sidewinders. $5 per set, PM me if you want some.