Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[xviper]

So now I'm curious, If I'm bypassing the control box for the throttle, and go directly to rx, how do i tie in the control box??

Didn't realize you were going through the board with the throttle leads. Since the throttles don't need the ribbon cables as the motors are in the fuse, the board is not used. Not sure what you mean by "tie in the control box"? Do you mean how do you power it? The external BEC plugs into the RX and the RX then shoves power to the board through the other leads going out of it to the board. Some people even bypass the board for the ailerons but that requires extensions from the wings. The elevator and rudder go through the fuse and don't have to go through the board either.

[Look ma, no trim]

Ok, so i have everything wired, calibrated etc.. I have my flaps and gear going thru mixing board.. Everything else thru rx..

The 3 issues im having is
1) i cant activate the flaps via switch, i can adjust flap value and see movement, but not when I activate flaps via switch D,

2) with regard to inside flaps, at power up they deployed to full throw in down position, while outside flaps are in neutral position.?

3) And Finally the control rod for inside flap appears to not be long enough as the control surface will not line up w/trailing edge.. At max adjustment it is still deflecting..

I really appreciate the hand/help fellas!

[Waconut]

If I remember correctly I mixed up control rods while initially setting up the wing controls. Double check you have the correct rods in place.

I wish I could help you with the flap deployment issue but it is hard to troubleshoot a radio setup issue via the web.

[Gringotuerto]

Ok, so i have everything wired, calibrated etc.. I have my flaps and gear going thru mixing board.. Everything else thru rx..

The 3 issues im having is
1) i cant activate the flaps via switch, i can adjust flap value and see movement, but not when I activate flaps via switch D,

2) with regard to inside flaps, at power up they deployed to full throw in down position, while outside flaps are in neutral position.?

3) And Finally the control rod for inside flap appears to not be long enough as the control surface will not line up w/trailing edge.. At max adjustment it is still deflecting..

I really appreciate the hand/help fellas!

1. I'm not sure what you mean...what Tx do you have? When you say "I can adjust the flap value" how are you able to adjust it? Anyway, since you mention switch D and this is a common switch for flaps on a DX18, I might guess you have Spektrum DX18 or similar. I have a DX18, and on that the switch is controlled directly from the "Flap System" menu, it is the next setting below the three positions, can select this and cycle through various switch assignments.

2. I think these should all be ganged together, receiving the same signal. And all are the same direction servo. Are you sure you didn't remove one of these from the control board? I think if they are all plugged into the control board, the signal wires are shorted together and therefore all get the same signal.

3. Two solutions I can think of :
(a) when you say "max adjustment" do you mean 100%? most radios have a separate travel adjustment where you can get >100%, which basically gives you more than 1ms-2ms range. For example my receiver seems to be able to output pulses from <700us to >2.4ms.
(b) otherwise you have to unscrew the ball link a bit to lengthen the rod. I often have to do this two or three turns on a new plane, they don't come pre-adjusted. I always get a bit nervous if the link is unscrewed so far that it becomes relatively easy to turn. To me that means it is a bit loose. In those cases I might apply a bit of glue after I'm sure I have the right position.

[xviper]

Ok, so i have everything wired, calibrated etc.. I have my flaps and gear going thru mixing board.. Everything else thru rx..

The 3 issues im having is
1) i cant activate the flaps via switch, i can adjust flap value and see movement, but not when I activate flaps via switch D,

2) with regard to inside flaps, at power up they deployed to full throw in down position, while outside flaps are in neutral position.?

3) And Finally the control rod for inside flap appears to not be long enough as the control surface will not line up w/trailing edge.. At max adjustment it is still deflecting..

I really appreciate the hand/help fellas!

1. With Spektrum, you must in the system setup, select "aircraft" (or wing) type as 1 AIL, 1 flap. This opens up the flap menu where you can properly select the switch and dial in your deflection, elevator compensation and deployment time.
2. When setting up the flaps, using servo sub-trim and/or manually placing the servo arm at the desired "starting point" for flap deployment, will better even them out. You know which way the servo arm moves to deploy flaps. When at level (or no) flaps, the servo arm should be at their starting position. You need to somehow put them there to begin with. A servo tester will come in handy to begin the process.
3. If you do #2, the rods should be of adequate length. Also, you need to measure all of them before putting them on. IE, it's possible that you used rods for one control surface that was meant for another.

[Look ma, no trim]

1. I'm not sure what you mean...what Tx do you have? When you say "I can adjust the flap value" how are you able to adjust it? Anyway, since you mention switch D and this is a common switch for flaps on a DX18, I might guess you have Spektrum DX18 or similar. I have a DX18, and on that the switch is controlled directly from the "Flap System" menu, it is the next setting below the three positions, can select this and cycle through various switch assignments.

2. I think these should all be ganged together, receiving the same signal. And all are the same direction servo. Are you sure you didn't remove one of these from the control board? I think if they are all plugged into the control board, the signal wires are shorted together and therefore all get the same signal.

3. Two solutions I can think of :
(a) when you say "max adjustment" do you mean 100%? most radios have a separate travel adjustment where you can get >100%, which basically gives you more than 1ms-2ms range. For example my receiver seems to be able to output pulses from <700us to >2.4ms.
(b) otherwise you have to unscrew the ball link a bit to lengthen the rod. I often have to do this two or three turns on a new plane, they don't come pre-adjusted. I always get a bit nervous if the link is unscrewed so far that it becomes relatively easy to turn. To me that means it is a bit loose. In those cases I might apply a bit of glue after I'm sure I have the right position.

So i have a DX8 G2.. Flaps are set uo amd programmed in tx, however, even when assigned, im not able to activate them by switch..

Ball links are max adjusted on inner flap.. Adjusted with servo in non deployed position, still coming up short.. Correct length, as the onky other "longer rod" goes to outside flap.. Inner flap gets same rod as aileron.. Give ne a few I'll take some pics

[Look ma, no trim]

1. With Spektrum, you must in the system setup, select "aircraft" (or wing) type as 1 AIL, 1 flap. This opens up the flap menu where you can properly select the switch and dial in your deflection, elevator compensation and deployment time.
2. When setting up the flaps, using servo sub-trim and/or manually placing the servo arm at the desired "starting point" for flap deployment, will better even them out. You know which way the servo arm moves to deploy flaps. When at level (or no) flaps, the servo arm should be at their starting position. You need to somehow put them there to begin with. A servo tester will come in handy to begin the process.
3. If you do #2, the rods should be of adequate length. Also, you need to measure all of them before putting them on. IE, it's possible that you used rods for one control surface that was meant for another.

Even if i move the servo arm to the neutral "no flap" position and set it up like that, the arm isn't long enough to provide a flush fit on the trailing edge.. The only longer throw rod goes to the outside flap.. Inner flap gets same length as aileron..Im assuming inner flap is the flap closest to fuse 🤷🏾♂️... Once flaps are set up and assigned a switch , i cant activate them with switch D, i can only move them in the flap menu by adjustment? Smh not sure whats happening

[xviper]

Even if i move the servo arm to the neutral "no flap" position and set it up like that, the arm isn't long enough to provide a flush fit on the trailing edge.. The only longer throw rod goes to the outside flap.. Inner flap gets same length as aileron..Im assuming inner flap is the flap closest to fuse 🤷🏾♂️... Once flaps are set up and assigned a switch , i cant activate them with switch D, i can only move them in the flap menu by adjustment? Smh not sure whats happening

You should be able to assign the switch (D in this case) in the flap menu at the bottom. Make sure you haven't got it INH.
As for the servo arm for the flaps, it should NOT start out in a "neutral" (or 90 degree) position. It needs to be near its starting point, where the distance from the servo arm hole to the flap control horn hole is much shorter. You must set that starting point either via servo subtrim (or % in the flap menu page for position "0") or manually re-positioning the arm on the servo driving cog (which you shouldn't have to do unless you've already moved it). THEN attach the rod. The arm should be in its "neutral" position (or near 90 degree position) at 1/2 flaps (ie, take off flaps), then near the other end of the travel for full flaps. You have 3 flap positions on the switch. "0" should be neutral or no flaps and this is achieved by dialing the % in the flap menu (or subtrim in the servo menu). Then in switch position "1" (1/2 flaps), dial in whatever % is takes to get you your needed deflection. Same goes for position "2" (full flaps). Leave ELE compensation for later.

[Gringotuerto]

So i have a DX8 G2.. Flaps are set uo amd programmed in tx, however, even when assigned, im not able to activate them by switch..

OK I also have an older DX8 - as xviper said, you have to select "flaps" in the initial setup (when it is asking "wing type" questions). Did you select 1-ail / 1-flap as the wing type?

[Look ma, no trim]

OK I also have an older DX8 - as xviper said, you have to select "flaps" in the initial setup (when it is asking "wing type" questions). Did you select 1-ail / 1-flap as the wing type?

I did. I assigned to switch D. Once assigned I cant get flaps to react by switch D so i can set pos 1,2 for mid amd and full flaps.. I can adjust them, exit and still not be able to use switch D.. However, on the inside of the mix board on the wing, it has flaps to 6 and gear to 5, as i just saw while solving the throw rod issue. So I'm sure that's where that issue lies.

The good: So I, for whatever reason (logic i think) assumed the inner flap was the flap closest to fuse. Would you belie I was wrong? All i could do was LOL when i realized that the inner flap was in the middle whioe hikding wing SEPERATE from fuse.. WHO KNEW🤷🏾♂️🤣🤣. Needless to say, that issue is sorted, i believe ill habe the switch issue sorted..


Now I have a rudder ran directly to the rx, and the nose wheel steering and gear running thru mixer board and now have no steering.. I'll just run rudder thru mixer board and I bekiev that will resolve that problem..

I really appreciate the help Gringo and Viper! Solid fellas

[Look ma, no trim]

I did. I assigned to switch D. Once assigned I cant get flaps to react by switch D so i can set pos 1,2 for mid amd and full flaps.. I can adjust them, exit and still not be able to use switch D.. However, on the inside of the mix board on the wing, it has flaps to 6 and gear to 5, as i just saw while solving the throw rod issue. So I'm sure that's where that issue lies.

The good: So I, for whatever reason (logic i think) assumed the inner flap was the flap closest to fuse. Would you belie I was wrong? All i could do was LOL when i realized that the inner flap was in the middle whioe hikding wing SEPERATE from fuse.. WHO KNEW🤷🏾♂️🤣🤣. Needless to say, that issue is sorted, i believe ill habe the switch issue sorted..


Now I have a rudder ran directly to the rx, and the nose wheel steering and gear running thru mixer board and now have no steering.. I'll just run rudder thru mixer board and I believe that will resolve that problem..

I really appreciate the help Gringo and Viper! Solid fellas

So to update, I have everything in proper order, all is working. My only gripe is I have 1 aileron that is going dead at connection, with a little wiggle, I get it back live and it stays live..I'm diverting Ele & Ail directly to rx, so where the connection gets dodgy is at the wing..So I guess my question is, HOW DO YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT THE DEPENDABILITY OF THE MIXING BOARD?

Thanks again fellas for all the help

[Look ma, no trim]

This is what Alpha Skyped me the other day i.e. CG:

The A-10's CG is 78mm, measured back from the leading edge of the wing root. For convenience's sake, this CG is measured with the aircraft upright, with the landing gear down (because it's too difficult to pick up the plane and measure it inverted gear up). Whether the aircraft is fully loaded or empty, the CG doesn't shift more than 1-2mm forward, which is within the margin of error for the plane (depending on how much glue the customer uses to affix the rear fuselage, which is the only glue joint). We can state a range of 75mm-83mm, if people want a range. Down elevator is mixed with flaps. 2mm down for first position, and 3mm for second position.

By "down elevator", you mean bring actual control surface down, to bring nose down, not down stick elevator that would bring the nose up..Confused as take off flaps should raise plane, wouldnt down elevator bring planes nose back down?

[crxmanpat]

So I guess my question is, HOW DO YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT THE DEPENDABILITY OF THE MIXING BOARD?

Thanks again fellas for all the help

The mixing board has worked perfectly for me on 3 different A-10s over the years. No issues with it whatsoever.

[Aros]

By "down elevator", you mean bring actual control surface down, to bring nose down, not down stick elevator that would bring the nose up..Confused as take off flaps should raise plane, wouldnt down elevator bring planes nose back down?

Yes you would add 2mm and 3mm down elevator trim to your flap mix. Some planes require up trim, others down trim.

[xviper]

So to update, I have everything in proper order, all is working. My only gripe is I have 1 aileron that is going dead at connection, with a little wiggle, I get it back live and it stays live..I'm diverting Ele & Ail directly to rx, so where the connection gets dodgy is at the wing..So I guess my question is, HOW DO YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT THE DEPENDABILITY OF THE MIXING BOARD?

Thanks again fellas for all the help

Before you get too far in your mindset as to trust or not trust, you should take the wing connector apart and see what's on the other side. You may find one or more of the plugs are not fully seated. But that's where your testing should begin. Use a servo tester to test each and every one of those plugs that go into the wing board. Then go to the other end and test the first connection you find there. In this case, the lead that plugs into the RX. This can rule out a faulty wing board or blue box or faulty wiring.

[Gringotuerto]

HOW DO YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT THE DEPENDABILITY OF THE MIXING BOARD?

I have used mixing board on many Motion RC planes, and never had an issue. I have had 3 y-cables fail, presumably breaking connection at the joint (fortunately, all three failed on the ground). That is not a large sample size, but we all form our "personal superstition" based on direct experiences, and mine is that the box from the plane maker is safer than a no-brand commodity y-cable. One thing not to like about the box is that it does introduce more pin connections. Also I found it interesting that MotionRC provides a Y-cable for the elevator with the Mig-29, and instructs how to bypass the box. And that Y cable has dual path all the way from the beginning (in other words, lower resistance than if the split were farther downstream). What I take from this is that there is some concern about resistance (on power/ground). PCB traces should be reliable, but they might have less cross sectional area than a cable, and typically pin connections have some resistance also (contact resistance...surfaces are always slightly oxidized, and metal oxides are typically insulating....two pieces of metal touching each other are not quite as good as one piece of metal).

[Look ma, no trim]

Yes you would add 2mm and 3mm down elevator trim to your flap mix. Some planes require up trim, others down trim.

Wow, I saw that in the instructions, but i thought it was too minimal to be right.. Lol, i put in 10 off rip.. Whoops

[themudduck]

Wow, I saw that in the instructions, but i thought it was too minimal to be right.. Lol, i put in 10 off rip.. Whoops

Your profile name makes this even funnier....

As Aros said, it can be different with each plane. With the A10 you need to set the elevators with some "up" for the normal flying setting - mainly because of the neutral stab and because this plane tends to be nose heavy. Have you noticed the many previous posts where people recommend moving the CG back? If you move the batteries back you won't need as much up trim, but you'll still probably need a little. Regarding flaps, with the A10 you'll find that it doesn't need much additional elevator trim with full flaps. I do find a little up elevator trim mixed in to be helpful with this plane to keep the nose up during landing. But the most important factor is the CG. If your plane is nose-heavy you will find it hard to raise the nose during landing, and you'll end up bouncing. (lots of posts regarding that)

[Look ma, no trim]

Can you use spray paint on this foam??

Thx in advance

[Aros]

Yes, enamel is fine. Always start with light coats and build up from there. Never use lacquers on foam.