Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[GFSPILOT]

Thanks glider guy,
I plan on reading as much as I can but I want to make sure that I didn't miss anything. I plan on taking my time with this one I'm not going to even put it in the air until I am sure I have gone over everything. Plus I'm going to spend quite a bit of time putting some more detail into the aircraft. I want to add a sound system plus a light system for the 30 mm scale Gatling gun up front. Any scale upgrades or add-ons would be greatly appreciated. All pretty much listen to any ideas!
Plus I live in a new area and recently found a flying field and plan on becoming a member of the Glacier Rcer's and apparently there's a lot of EDF guys out here. So hopefully I'll get lots of info from these guys as well.
Thanks 😊

[GliderGuy]

Hi GFSP...Please consider getting the maiden / shakedown flights done BEFORE investing additional time and money on upgrades and details!

Nothing worse than taking home a pile of foam + add ons + upgrades + details because something was missed or pilot learning curve was too steep.

Fly it after doing ONLY the important tweaking. Get to know it and THEN invest the extra time on the details.

This is a hard lesson MANY of us have learned related to both TIME and MONEY.

-GG

[Gringotuerto]

I have a spectrum nx8 and I purchased a AR8020T DSMX 8-Channel Telemetry Receiver and two....

I have not used "Smart" batteries from Spectrum, but if I understand correctly the extra pin sticking out will not interfere with a normal (non-"Smart") EC5. In other words, I think you do not need any adapter to plug those batteries into the ESCs that come with the plane (which are EC5). The ESC will not support Smart function the way an Avian ESC would, but it will work normally. I noticed those 7000mah batteries are 890g each, whereas the quasi-standard battery that you would see in the flight videos from MotionRC is 5000mah which weighs 732g. I feel that this plane already has a reasonably high wing loading, I would not want almost 320g more on it. But I know people who fly it with batteries in that weight range and like it fine.

8Chan receiver seems OK. The AR8020T does have an SRXL2 port on it, so if it didn't already come with a satellite receiver, I would definitely add one. That part number (I think) is SPM4651T. Also the AR8020T does not have an integrated gyro (AS3X).

As you probably noticed, 50% of this thread is dedicated to how to avoid "bucking bronco." Any tricycle gear plane can do this, but this one is more susceptible than most, possibly because of the geometry (that nose is long). Mine has a repaired front end due to a bucking incident on one of my first few landings. I ended up putting straight (non trailing link) struts on the mains, but more importantly I got better at landing it. I just keep it hovering and inch or two off the ground until it can't fly anymore, and settles down by itself. That way it just doesn't have enough energy to buck.

Also you should notice in the manual that the elevator needs to be trimmed up a few millimeters. It is better to discover this in the instructions, than in the air like I did

Oh - one other thing - on many MotionRC planes, I find the recommended rates to be a little high, especially for a maiden flight. I would advise starting with lower rates. You can always raise the rates if you start too low. But if you start too high it might be your last flight.

Bottom line is - although people have preferences, I don't think there is any absolutely necessary modification here. It's not like they ship you a plane that doesn't work. It works, and flies very well. In fact, as a jet with a "normal" wing, it is much easier to manage (IMHO) than most other jets. It is not twitchy on roll axis like delta-ish jets tend to be.

[Hugh Wiedman]

The best thing you can do while waiting is read all the posts....best time you will ever spend AND it may prevent you from crashing your A-10.

Sooo many important things are here. CG, nose gear brace, set-up info.

Search on “ferrite” or “RF choke” or “choke” and read/learn/buy/install these. I lost an A-10 twice and an F-4 due to not installing these. No issues after I began installing the chokes.

Failure to take the time to read these posts puts you at risk of taking a pile of foam home.

-GG

GFSPILOT , listen to GG, he knows of which he speaks.

Love my A-10 (taking it out again tomorrow) and there are only a few things I would recommend (nothing relating to cosmetic modifications, that's entirely up to you)

1) GG's ferrite chokes, as many as you can get on!!
2) An additional satellite remote receiver if you can. I use the AR 637T located as far aft as possible, including moving the board to the port fuselage wall to get the CG I want and a remote receiver all the way in the front.
3) Run some carbon fiber tubes in the channels on each side of the fuselage from as far back as possible in the battery bay all the way forward, simply for a bit more structural support on the front that holds a lot of weight in batteries
3) If landing on grass, upgrade to the trailing link nose gear, but on asphalt, just the opposite, leave stock nose gear and upgrade the mains
4) Book CG is 78mm, mine flies best at 92-94 mm and is not "pitchy" and lands very nice and slow with the nose up. Battery placement depends on the weight of the batteries you use. I use 2 Roaring Top 6250 mah 35 C, each weighing 794 g, with one placed as far back under the foam (hence the reason I moved the circuit board) and the other right up against the rear battery and had to relocate the battery straps and add a step under the front battery so it laid flat (when you get it, you'll understand what I'm referring to here). I get 5 minutes of flight time on this set-up, but no doubt the 7000 mah batteries you plan on using are heavier so not sure how you'll be able to get to a 92-94 mm balance point.

With that more balanced CG, at least IMO, it will fly extremely well and surprisingly floats in nice and slow for landing with the nose up. Worse thing you can do is land with the nose touching slightly early or god forbid with the nose hitting first. It will be a bucking bronco down the runway and most likely finally come to rest with some/lot of damage, and I think that further rear CG really helps in making that never happen.

Just my 2 cents!

[Gringotuerto]

Just my 2 cents!

Given the number of snapped noses, the carbon fiber rods make sense. I did that on my Freewing Me-262 for similar reason. However, I would also point out that on my (and other) Me-262 the fuselage snapped at a consistent location, and purely through foam, with no other damage. When I bronco'd my A-10, it actually snapped the gear mount if I recall correctly. So rods might have changed the outcome, but probably the gear mount would still have broken. I don't precisely remember though.

Also as Hugh says there seems to be about 99% consensus that 78mm is too far forward. I and two others at my field use 85-86mm, just as a point of reference. 92-94mm seems to be at the back end of the range you will read on this board, I think. Of course it is also normal to maiden a plane a little forward of where you think you should ultimately be.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Given the number of snapped noses, the carbon fiber rods make sense. I did that on my Freewing Me-262 for similar reason. However, I would also point out that on my (and other) Me-262 the fuselage snapped at a consistent location, and purely through foam, with no other damage. When I bronco'd my A-10, it actually snapped the gear mount if I recall correctly. So rods might have changed the outcome, but probably the gear mount would still have broken. I don't precisely remember though.

Also as Hugh says there seems to be about 99% consensus that 78mm is too far forward. I and two others at my field use 85-86mm, just as a point of reference. 92-94mm seems to be at the back end of the range you will read on this board, I think. Of course it is also normal to maiden a plane a little forward of where you think you should ultimately be.

Absolutely my fellow Gringo (don't forget, I live in Miami where only Spanish is spoken and I'm also the only "Gringo" in my family and the only one who doesn't speak fluent Spanish), maiden first in the nose heavier direction, around 82 mm I suggest, and move back if/when you feel comfortable. I only suggested a possible final CG of 92-94 mm in setting up this model so you would have the ability to get further back if you like it. Maidened mine at 82 mm, then slowly moved it further and further back if I was comfortable. 94 mm is actually as far back as I can even get, so quite happy there. Ignorance is Bliss.

I also had my original Spitfire's fuselage begin to crack just behind the battery after about 75 flights. Probably due to poor landings before I learned to land with some power level on the mains. Added carbon fiber tubes there as well, in addition to a new Spitfire I got last year, since oddly enough, at least in mine, it had no carbon fiber tubes in the existing channels. Others claimed there's came with them, but neither of mine did. Do you suppose MRC has special boxes ready ship with only my name on it?

[GFSPILOT]

Okay guys so I just ordered a satellite receiver for redundancy and I would like to look at some pictures of how you guys use the carbon fiber rods to support the front of the aircraft for The battery area and last I am wondering where to buy those chokers at.

[GliderGuy]

Plenty of options on Amazon. One example

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CWCSNW9/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_glt_fabc_MB92VQT8736BPQMCVS5M

Get the variety pack....

Plenty of posts in the forums on how to use them.

-GG

[GFSPILOT]

Okay guys I got the FR chokes ordered. Just read the thread about the problem with some of the decals falling off so I'm going to order some of thehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B488GQM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_DTEXTH8SC8FH6BJF5N3A?_enco ding=UTF8&psc=1

[GFSPILOT]

Looking for a link to purchase some of the carbon fiber rods you guys were using for the supporting of the fuselage.

[Elbee]

Looking for a link to purchase some of the carbon fiber rods you guys were using for the supporting of the fuselage.

https://www.amazon.com/Pultruded-Square-Carbon-Fiber-Tube/dp/B07R1N7T6D/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=5mm+x+5mm+square+carbon+fiber+tube&qid=1616967883&sr=8-3

GP, as I recall the tube is 5mm sq. and adds no appreciable weight. A very easy upgrade for the 'Hawg" in my opinion, but measure the molded slot before you commit. Best, LB

[Hugh Wiedman]

Okay guys so I just ordered a satellite receiver for redundancy and I would like to look at some pictures of how you guys use the carbon fiber rods to support the front of the aircraft for The battery area and last I am wondering where to buy those chokers at.

For what it's worth, 1st: shows location of the rods (you'll see it when you get the aircraft), 2nd is the location of my satellite, and 3rd is my very very rear located battery placement. RX and antennae for that located behind the aft battery.

[GFSPILOT]

Thanks for the pics HW that was very helpful!

[GliderGuy]

GFSPilot - Found this pix...helpful perhaps. It is a suggestion for where to place the clip-on RF chokes. Which side of the ESC, that is. Keep them as close to the ESC as possible. “All” means all these wires need to go through a choke.

You can route more than one wire through a choke. I even added a small choke near the green ring choke on the throttle wire....placed it next to the green ring choke. Can’t hurt....but possibly overkill.

Additional places to consider....place a clip-on choke near the servo on any long running servo wires. Again....could be overkill, but it can’t hurt.

[The43rdHammer]

Hi all,

Flew my hog again today with the new innrunner setup, sounded great but the flight time was short, 3-minutes at best.

I have also shuffled the CG back 10-15mm and it's now PERFECT.

I fitted an Eagle A3 Super 3 gyro to her and tested it for the first time today, the results were out of this world, I'm almost embarassed to land the A-10 now as I don't really have to do a lot more than ensure she follows the glide slope.

Winds were reasonably high for the test, 15mph gusting to 25mph, albeit straight down the runway.



Cheers

Andy

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hi all,

Flew my hog again today with the new innrunner setup, sounded great but the flight time was short, 3-minutes at best.

I have also shuffled the CG back 10-15mm and it's now PERFECT.

I fitted an Eagle A3 Super 3 gyro to her and tested it for the first time today, the results were out of this world, I'm almost embarassed to land the A-10 now as I don't really have to do a lot more than ensure she follows the glide slope.

Winds were reasonably high for the test, 15mph gusting to 25mph, albeit straight down the runway.



Cheers

Andy

Nice looking Hog Andy. Surprised you're only getting 3 minutes on her. I'm using the original Stock 9 blade 1900 Kv outrunners powered by 2 RT 6250 35 C batteries and get 5 minutes of very aggressive flying in with lots of vertical maneuvers all with the full ordinance package. Mine is also a bit heavier than stock with the Dirty Dee 3D cockpit and I have it balanced at 92-94 mm, with both batteries shoved as far aft as possible after removing the circuit board and sticking it on the port fuselage wall. The relatively long flight time of 5 minutes for an EDF is one of the many things I love about this beast.

What's so different in your set-up that you're ending up with 40% less flight time? We need to keep you in the air longer, sooo many juicy targets to go after and so little time!

BTW, glad our English Brothers are back in the air, it was very lonely up there without you!

[The43rdHammer]

What's so different in your set-up that you're ending up with 40% less flight time? We need to keep you in the air longer, sooo many juicy targets to go after and so little time!

BTW, glad our English Brothers are back in the air, it was very lonely up there without you!

Hi Hugh, that’s very kind of you, she’s pretty much as stock as she comes but I love her all the same. After arm wrestling the sharks mouth waterslide to the front of her I pretty much needed therapy afterwards 🤪

Not sure what’s going on with the flight times, I seem to remember getting nearly 6-minutes out of the outrunners. These are the 9-blade inrunners which I had hoped would give me longer... that worked out well then 🤣

C’est la vie!

Andy

[GliderGuy]

Hi Hugh, that’s very kind of you, she’s pretty much as stock as she comes but I love her all the same. After arm wrestling the sharks mouth waterslide to the front of her I pretty much needed therapy afterwards 🤪

Not sure what’s going on with the flight times, I seem to remember getting nearly 6-minutes out of the outrunners. These are the 9-blade inrunners which I had hoped would give me longer... that worked out well then 🤣

C’est la vie!

Andy

Hi Andy,

FYI...I lost an A-10 twice (once repaired) due to a loss of control event (also lost an F-4). If you haven't installed some clip-on, ferrite RF chokes as discussed above in the recent posts...PLEASE consider installing them. I have not had a loss of control event since I began using them. A HAM radio guru put me on to them as a solution for high-current ESC birds. I offer up several thousand flights with another F-4, AL37 and MiG-29 in evidence...no issues experienced with chokes installed. The HAM suggested that common mode RF noise from the ESCs may interrupt the hand-shake process between the RX and TX by causing the FHSS look-up table pointer process to get messed up. Not common, but possible. I fly so much that "IF" it can happen, it will happen to me.

Weird about the short flight time. Curious...What size and brand of batteries are you using?

-GG

[Gringotuerto]

Weird about the short flight time. Curious...What size and brand of batteries are you using?

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I also get around 3 mins with 5000mah Admiral batteries from MotionRC, and they come back around 3.8v (which is about where I like to finish). And they come back HOT - hotter than on any other plane I own. I guess I have a heavy thumb. As they say, "3 minutes of flying mixed throttle flying".....but maybe a mix of settings between 98% and 100%, lol. I also use two pieces of foam on either side to keep them centered, which probably doesn't help the cooling. I should probably modify that a bit.

[The43rdHammer]

Hi both, I’ll definitely get the ferrite RF chokes, thanks. Last time I looked they were out of stock but I shall persist! 😊

Running x2 6S 6000 packs and had the same experience as Gringoteurto above.

EDIT: my packs are NOT hot on landing curiously.

Andy