Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[Aros]

Look at xviper rocking that wisdom! Sensible words right there.

[DCORSAIR]

Make it easy, measure back 80mm on bottom wing next to the fuselage, gear down sitting on its wheels on a table, slide your fingers tips to your measurements, pick up gently, if the tail falls first, tail heavy, heavy nose drop, nose heavy, looking for a slight nose drop at 80-85mm, your good either way, don't stress on it, I flew mine at 78mm per the manual for a long time and had no problems landing it, never upgraded the gear or replaced any parts, 80mm was the sweet spot for me, find what you like after you get the maiden and trimming flight done, enjoy the A-10.

[Hugh Wiedman]

At what point do you do your final trim? Do you trim your plane when it's flying normally or do you trim it as it's taking off or while it's landing (ie, with the gear down or up)? If you balance it with gear down, then take off, suck up the gear, then do the trim for "hands off" flight, you've just uncompensated for the balance that you did when you had the gear down.

Excellent points, as usual, by xviper . If you want to try a handy technique that I think is one of the best things to set up in your transmitter for trimming, try this: This option is available on all Spektrum TX, but not sure about any others. Set up Flight Modes and tie it to your 3 position Flap switch. Then go to Trim Setup and enable trims for Elevator and Aileron to F Mode (common is default). Now you can trim those surfaces at each position of the flap switch and the trim values stay there. On the maiden, trim those surfaces first with gear down and take off flaps (if you use them) after you get it in the air and around 60% throttle. Then you can raise the gear and the flaps, and trim all surfaces for that condition at whatever speed you normally fly around at. Lastly, (although you can do this in any order, but I like to do the first trims with gear down and 1/2 flaps so at least if I need to make a quick landing, it is flying level) then lower the gear, go to 1/2 flaps and make sure it still flies level, then go to full flaps, and something like 35-40% throttle or whatever speed you begin your landing sequence in and trim the surfaces there. With this, one flight and you are level at all 3 flap positions. The trimming on the rudder will stay the same in all 3 positions since you did not enable rudder trim in the Trim Setup (so changing it at any flap position results in it being the same in all three). You don't have to enable the aileron trimming (but the elevator is a must IMO), but if your flap deflection is not exactly the same on both flaps, it definitely helps. I still use the elevator corrections recommended in the Flap System setup, but those are just a starting guess point. The final trimming is then in flight, one time, for all flying conditions. Now when I drop the gear and either 1/2 or full flaps, the plane always stays level. And if conditions change, or you move your battery to a different position or increase/decrease your flap deflection, it's easy to get it quickly trimmed again for take-off, flying around and landing. I use this with every plane and jet that has flaps and frankly can't image not having this feature. Try it, you'll never do without it again!

[Mizer67]

Excellent points, as usual, by xviper . If you want to try a handy technique that I think is one of the best things to set up in your transmitter for trimming, try this: This option is available on all Spektrum TX, but not sure about any others. Set up Flight Modes and tie it to your 3 position Flap switch. Then go to Trim Setup and enable trims for Elevator and Aileron to F Mode (common is default). Now you can trim those surfaces at each position of the flap switch and the trim values stay there. On the maiden, trim those surfaces first with gear down and take off flaps (if you use them) after you get it in the air and around 60% throttle. Then you can raise the gear and the flaps, and trim all surfaces for that condition at whatever speed you normally fly around at. Lastly, (although you can do this in any order, but I like to do the first trims with gear down and 1/2 flaps so at least if I need to make a quick landing, it is flying level) then lower the gear, go to 1/2 flaps and make sure it still flies level, then go to full flaps, and something like 35-40% throttle or whatever speed you begin your landing sequence in and trim the surfaces there. With this, one flight and you are level at all 3 flap positions. The trimming on the rudder will stay the same in all 3 positions since you did not enable rudder trim in the Trim Setup (so changing it at any flap position results in it being the same in all three). You don't have to enable the aileron trimming (but the elevator is a must IMO), but if your flap deflection is not exactly the same on both flaps, it definitely helps. I still use the elevator corrections recommended in the Flap System setup, but those are just a starting guess point. The final trimming is then in flight, one time, for all flying conditions. Now when I drop the gear and either 1/2 or full flaps, the plane always stays level. And if conditions change, or you move your battery to a different position or increase/decrease your flap deflection, it's easy to get it quickly trimmed again for take-off, flying around and landing. I use this with every plane and jet that has flaps and frankly can't image not having this feature. Try it, you'll never do without it again!

Forgive me if I'm not understanding the above, but if you enable flaps during the aircraft setup in a Spektrum transmitter, assuming all you want to compensate for is the pitch change from different flap positions, that option should be possible without the Flight Modes.

You can program an up or down elevator mix directly in the Flap System menu, using your typical 3-position switch for flaps. Flap position is on the left and elevator position mix is on the right. No flight modes necessary.

[DCORSAIR]

Excellent points, as usual, by xviper . If you want to try a handy technique that I think is one of the best things to set up in your transmitter for trimming, try this: This option is available on all Spektrum TX, but not sure about any others. Set up Flight Modes and tie it to your 3 position Flap switch. Then go to Trim Setup and enable trims for Elevator and Aileron to F Mode (common is default). Now you can trim those surfaces at each position of the flap switch and the trim values stay there. On the maiden, trim those surfaces first with gear down and take off flaps (if you use them) after you get it in the air and around 60% throttle. Then you can raise the gear and the flaps, and trim all surfaces for that condition at whatever speed you normally fly around at. Lastly, (although you can do this in any order, but I like to do the first trims with gear down and 1/2 flaps so at least if I need to make a quick landing, it is flying level) then lower the gear, go to 1/2 flaps and make sure it still flies level, then go to full flaps, and something like 35-40% throttle or whatever speed you begin your landing sequence in and trim the surfaces there. With this, one flight and you are level at all 3 flap positions. The trimming on the rudder will stay the same in all 3 positions since you did not enable rudder trim in the Trim Setup (so changing it at any flap position results in it being the same in all three). You don't have to enable the aileron trimming (but the elevator is a must IMO), but if your flap deflection is not exactly the same on both flaps, it definitely helps. I still use the elevator corrections recommended in the Flap System setup, but those are just a starting guess point. The final trimming is then in flight, one time, for all flying conditions. Now when I drop the gear and either 1/2 or full flaps, the plane always stays level. And if conditions change, or you move your battery to a different position or increase/decrease your flap deflection, it's easy to get it quickly trimmed again for take-off, flying around and landing. I use this with every plane and jet that has flaps and frankly can't image not having this feature. Try it, you'll never do without it again!

Wow Hugh, that just sounds like way to much work and switches to flip.

I bet your jets fly very smooth though, I don't use expo, no rates, no flight modes, trim once on maiden flight, change what I need too, go fly again, make adjustments until I get it perfect, I do use mixes for elevator/flaps or things like that, I might have to give those flight modes a try one day.

[Splat]

Okay I step closer to the maiden, I think she's pretty much ready to go flying. I got the CG at about 80-83mm with the 6000's and have room to adjust as needed. I moved the circuit board back to the rear screws and tucked the UBEC under the battery boards along with the servo reducer for the flaps.

Only thing left is to adjust the nose wheel because she doesn't exactly track straight when she rolls and we don't want that. Just have to figure out how to do it lol.

[DCORSAIR]

Okay I step closer to the maiden, I think she's pretty much ready to go flying. I got the CG at about 80-83mm with the 6000's and have room to adjust as needed. I moved the circuit board back to the rear screws and tucked the UBEC under the battery boards along with the servo reducer for the flaps.

Only thing left is to adjust the nose wheel because she doesn't exactly track straight when she rolls and we don't want that. Just have to figure out how to do it lol.

Looks good Splat, but I would take one antenna and go up and back with it, just circle it around, not a tight cicle but just loop it around above the rx, scotch tape the gray part of the antenna right to the foam, this way both antennas are not hidden by the battery, or you could loop the bottom antenna back, it will probably be fine the way it is, I never had any trouble what so ever with my Futaba 617 antennas split up, but do what your comfortable with.

[Splat]

Good advice Corsair, thank you!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Forgive me if I'm not understanding the above, but if you enable flaps during the aircraft setup in a Spektrum transmitter, assuming all you want to compensate for is the pitch change from different flap positions, that option should be possible without the Flight Modes.

You can program an up or down elevator mix directly in the Flap System menu, using your typical 3-position switch for flaps. Flap position is on the left and elevator position mix is on the right. No flight modes necessary.

Yes you can start there and program what you guess is going to be the correct elevator compensation in each flap setting. But wouldn't you like to be able to set the trim exactly where it needs to be only ONCE for elevator and aileron in the maiden flight? By taking 15 seconds to set up Flight Modes and Trim Utilities, you can fine tune the trim and get it exactly correct for each flap setting in flight on the first flight. Without doing this, you need to find the trim for a specific flap position, land, go into the flap system, adjust, then take off again and do the same for the next flap setting. And of course every time you adjust the trim for one flap setting, it affects the trim for others. FM's make it specific for each configuration you fly, taking-off, flying and landing. And what are you going to do if your flaps do not deflect at the exact same distance. You can trim for level flight with flaps up, but when you drop the flaps, what if it now has a slight roll. Trim the aileron again to stop it? Then after landing, put the trim back to where it was before and trim the aileron again when you want to land? Virtually all of my planes and jets have a slightly different (only 1-2 clicks) trim on aileron for each flap position. But when I change flaps, the bird stays level in all axis. The Corsair, with it's 3 split flaps are almost impossible to get to deflect each exactly the same. FM's let you correct that in seconds with the click of the trim, and after that, it's good from then on. I trim each plane once, on the maiden, and then it flies level vertically and with roll when I change flaps. I see pilots all the time continually trimming some surface when using flaps, even after multiple flights. Why fight with trim over and over when you can solve it immediately on the first flight, for all surfaces? It's not complicated, it surprisingly simple to enable. Just ask Aros . I suggested it to him for his F-16 when he mentioned that he forgot to manually adjust the elevator compensation in the flap system once. Don't live in the "Stone Ages", these transmitters have a lot of incredibly useful tools that will make your every day flying SOOO much easier. If a cave man like me can do it, you'll have no trouble. This was shown to me by several of the top competition pilots in our club, and if it works for them, I'm willing to learn it too.

[DCORSAIR]

Yes you can start there and program what you guess is going to be the correct elevator compensation in each flap setting. But wouldn't you like to be able to set the trim exactly where it needs to be only ONCE for elevator and aileron in the maiden flight? By taking 15 seconds to set up Flight Modes and Trim Utilities, you can fine tune the trim and get it exactly correct for each flap setting in flight on the first flight. Without doing this, you need to find the trim for a specific flap position, land, go into the flap system, adjust, then take off again and do the same for the next flap setting. And of course every time you adjust the trim for one flap setting, it affects the trim for others. FM's make it specific for each configuration you fly, taking-off, flying and landing. And what are you going to do if your flaps do not deflect at the exact same distance. You can trim for level flight with flaps up, but when you drop the flaps, what if it now has a slight roll. Trim the aileron again to stop it? Then after landing, put the trim back to where it was before and trim the aileron again when you want to land? Virtually all of my planes and jets have a slightly different (only 1-2 clicks) trim on aileron for each flap position. But when I change flaps, the bird stays level in all axis. The Corsair, with it's 3 split flaps are almost impossible to get to deflect each exactly the same. FM's let you correct that in seconds with the click of the trim, and after that, it's good from then on. I trim each plane once, on the maiden, and then it flies level vertically and with roll when I change flaps. I see pilots all the time continually trimming some surface when using flaps, even after multiple flights. Why fight with trim over and over when you can solve it immediately on the first flight, for all surfaces? It's not complicated, it surprisingly simple to enable. Just ask Aros . I suggested it to him for his F-16 when he mentioned that he forgot to manually adjust the elevator compensation in the flap system once. Don't live in the "Stone Ages", these transmitters have a lot of incredibly useful tools that will make your every day flying SOOO much easier. If a cave man like me can do it, you'll have no trouble. This was shown to me by several of the top competition pilots in our club, and if it works for them, I'm willing to learn it too.

Yeah, I watched my buddy set up flight modes with his FrySky 10s, at first I didn't know what he was doing, then I watched him go through each flap setting, click auto trim, them gear down, click auto trim, I was really impressed, but I'm in the stone age I guess, I would rather set up a little mix here and there and call it good, then fly the sticks to compensate what out of trim my plane has, I do have a new Futaba radio coming, it has flight modes, my old Futaba 7C is limited on that, but I love that radio, time to get out of the stone age I guess.

[Mizer67]

Yes you can start there and program what you guess is going to be the correct elevator compensation in each flap setting. But wouldn't you like to be able to set the trim exactly where it needs to be only ONCE for elevator and aileron in the maiden flight? By taking 15 seconds to set up Flight Modes and Trim Utilities, you can fine tune the trim and get it exactly correct for each flap setting in flight on the first flight. Without doing this, you need to find the trim for a specific flap position, land, go into the flap system, adjust, then take off again and do the same for the next flap setting. And of course every time you adjust the trim for one flap setting, it affects the trim for others. FM's make it specific for each configuration you fly, taking-off, flying and landing. And what are you going to do if your flaps do not deflect at the exact same distance. You can trim for level flight with flaps up, but when you drop the flaps, what if it now has a slight roll. Trim the aileron again to stop it? Then after landing, put the trim back to where it was before and trim the aileron again when you want to land? Virtually all of my planes and jets have a slightly different (only 1-2 clicks) trim on aileron for each flap position. But when I change flaps, the bird stays level in all axis. The Corsair, with it's 3 split flaps are almost impossible to get to deflect each exactly the same. FM's let you correct that in seconds with the click of the trim, and after that, it's good from then on. I trim each plane once, on the maiden, and then it flies level vertically and with roll when I change flaps. I see pilots all the time continually trimming some surface when using flaps, even after multiple flights. Why fight with trim over and over when you can solve it immediately on the first flight, for all surfaces? It's not complicated, it surprisingly simple to enable. Just ask Aros . I suggested it to him for his F-16 when he mentioned that he forgot to manually adjust the elevator compensation in the flap system once. Don't live in the "Stone Ages", these transmitters have a lot of incredibly useful tools that will make your every day flying SOOO much easier. If a cave man like me can do it, you'll have no trouble. This was shown to me by several of the top competition pilots in our club, and if it works for them, I'm willing to learn it too.

Thank you for the additional explanation.

I suppose I'm in the stone age as I just fly the sticks and rarely use any mixing, even on flap changes, but also have rarely noticed large changes in attitude that I wanted to compensate for that were consistent. I find there's almost always minor attitude changes day-to-day on my foam models, if not flight to flight. Balsa was never this way, but I don't fly balsa any longer except on rare occasions.

I will never been called a top competition pilot, however.

[PaulZ]

So I have my first issue with this plane, the 9-blade EDFs are way too efficient/quiet LoL!
Have you guys tried any of the 12-bl units out there that would generate more whoosh sound? I put the whistles in and that helps.
I am thinking of ordering the Freewing 12-bl inrunner EDFs.

[AceMigKiller]

There's alot to be said for that. In full scale we call that "pilotage" and "flying by the seat of your pants." It's a good thing! Means you're able to adapt and fly using your best judgement. I've seen so many hobbyists break down and complain over even the smallest of imperfections or changes.

That being said, it's definitely advantageous to use trims and mixes to compensate if we know we'll encounter or induce a predictable trim change. Just makes our lives easier and one less thing to worry about.

Great explanation Hugh.

[ColtPilot]

Yes you can start there and program what you guess is going to be the correct elevator compensation in each flap setting. But wouldn't you like to be able to set the trim exactly where it needs to be only ONCE for elevator and aileron in the maiden flight? By taking 15 seconds to set up Flight Modes and Trim Utilities, you can fine tune the trim and get it exactly correct for each flap setting in flight on the first flight. Without doing this, you need to find the trim for a specific flap position, land, go into the flap system, adjust, then take off again and do the same for the next flap setting. And of course every time you adjust the trim for one flap setting, it affects the trim for others. FM's make it specific for each configuration you fly, taking-off, flying and landing. And what are you going to do if your flaps do not deflect at the exact same distance. You can trim for level flight with flaps up, but when you drop the flaps, what if it now has a slight roll. Trim the aileron again to stop it? Then after landing, put the trim back to where it was before and trim the aileron again when you want to land? Virtually all of my planes and jets have a slightly different (only 1-2 clicks) trim on aileron for each flap position. But when I change flaps, the bird stays level in all axis. The Corsair, with it's 3 split flaps are almost impossible to get to deflect each exactly the same. FM's let you correct that in seconds with the click of the trim, and after that, it's good from then on. I trim each plane once, on the maiden, and then it flies level vertically and with roll when I change flaps. I see pilots all the time continually trimming some surface when using flaps, even after multiple flights. Why fight with trim over and over when you can solve it immediately on the first flight, for all surfaces? It's not complicated, it surprisingly simple to enable. Just ask Aros . I suggested it to him for his F-16 when he mentioned that he forgot to manually adjust the elevator compensation in the flap system once. Don't live in the "Stone Ages", these transmitters have a lot of incredibly useful tools that will make your every day flying SOOO much easier. If a cave man like me can do it, you'll have no trouble. This was shown to me by several of the top competition pilots in our club, and if it works for them, I'm willing to learn it too.

B
doing the flight mode to elevator trim for quite some time now. Makes things much easier than figuring out percentages. Same for landing gear. Have a great day.

[crxmanpat]

So I have my first issue with this plane, the 9-blade EDFs are way too efficient/quiet LoL!
Have you guys tried any of the 12-bl units out there that would generate more whoosh sound? I put the whistles in and that helps.
I am thinking of ordering the Freewing 12-bl inrunner EDFs.

The 12bl will be even quieter than the 9bl. The full scale has unducted fans and sounds more like an airliner than a fighter jet (has more of that turbofan "whine"). The whistles are typically only effective at lower throttle settings. I found that they are ineffective at anything above half throttle. Probably has to do with the speed of the airflow over them. I'd say save yourself the expense and stick with the 9bl.

[Splat]

The 9s are quite to you? LOL...my ears must be overly sensitive after being around real jets for 20+ years because it's plenty loud to me. I have two 12s sitting on my bench, as I've yet to actually maiden my bird I don't have anything to compare it too but I'm also thinking of the inrunner upgrade but wanna see how she flies stock first.

On that note, the maiden will probably happen tomorrow. She pretty much ready to fly except I want to do a bench "flight" to simulate about 3:30 minutes to give a chance to see how everything feels and such so nothing happens in mid-air. Oh and for the nose wheel that I need to adjust still to make her track a little straighter. I see there is a setscrew on the strut towards the bottom that I assume is how I can do that?

[DCORSAIR]

The 9s are quite to you? LOL...my ears must be overly sensitive after being around real jets for 20+ years because it's plenty loud to me. I have two 12s sitting on my bench, as I've yet to actually maiden my bird I don't have anything to compare it too but I'm also thinking of the inrunner upgrade but wanna see how she flies stock first.

On that note, the maiden will probably happen tomorrow. She pretty much ready to fly except I want to do a bench "flight" to simulate about 3:30 minutes to give a chance to see how everything feels and such so nothing happens in mid-air. Oh and for the nose wheel that I need to adjust still to make her track a little straighter. I see there is a setscrew on the strut towards the bottom that I assume is how I can do that?

There should be a set screw on the steering servo horn to slide that control rod back and forth to adjust the steering, thats if you don't want to use a little subtrim in the radio, a little subtrim is ok but not a lot, if you do use subtrim don't forget to manually adjust your rudders back to neutral.

[Splat]

There should be a set screw on the steering servo horn to slide that control rod back and forth to adjust the steering, thats if you don't want to use a little subtrim in the radio, a little subtrim is ok but not a lot, if you do use subtrim don't forget to manually adjust your rudders back to neutral.

Thanks Corsair, I adjusted that and looks like it tracks straight now.

So this afternoon I did a couple of high/low power turns in my garage to simulate flying with various throttle settings and control surface throws. Timer set at 3:30 and when it buzzed I actually spent about another 30 seconds getting her on the "ground". Batts checked at between 37%-40% remaining which I'm thinking would be enough for a go around. That seems to be pretty much on point with what people are getting for flight times and with throttle management I could squeek 4:00 minutes lol.

After the high/low power turns the line shack towed her out the the CALA where ordnance was waiting to load the bird. Being a Navy red shirt I spent a little time getting the ordnance to look a little more convincing lol.

Charging my batteries tonight for a FCF Delta maiden tomorrow after work!

[crxmanpat]

I get 4 minutes on the timer (start of takeoff roll to touchdown) with 25% left. So 4 minutes is easy, 5 mins with throttle management.

Love the ordnance!

[Splat]

I get 4 minutes on the timer (start of takeoff roll to touchdown) with 25% left. So 4 minutes is easy, 5 mins with throttle management.

Love the ordnance!

Pretty much what I'm thinking too, hopefully anyway lol. And thank you Pat!

Now if I could only get these batteries to charge faster, 2 hours a battery seems excessive lol.