Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[locharrow]

Well done Ben.....all the pain and misery now disappearing fast at the excitement and anticipation of the maiden!!!!

"The receivers that don't have satellites are for park flyers." Don't want to start an argument but I had more brown outs with Spektrum receivers WITH satellites, both on gassers and edfs. That is what drove me to change to Taranis Tx and Frsky Rxs. I have not had even a glitch in over five years.The antennae are placed in a V position either side of the fuselage. That goes for my set up in a 16 channel edf right down to my 4 channel set up in a gas Bird Dog........ Just sayin'

[DCORSAIR]

Well done Ben.....all the pain and misery now disappearing fast at the excitement and anticipation of the maiden!!!!

"The receivers that don't have satellites are for park flyers." Don't want to start an argument but I had more brown outs with Spektrum receivers WITH satellites, both on gassers and edfs. That is what drove me to change to Taranis Tx and Frsky Rxs. I have not had even a glitch in over five years.The antennae are placed in a V position either side of the fuselage. That goes for my set up in a 16 channel edf right down to my 4 channel set up in a gas Bird Dog........ Just sayin'

Oh boy, your going to get those Spektrum guys fired up about their satellite installations................

[GliderGuy]

I have been interested in this discussion and I have to tell you that I don't have ferrites installed in any of my EDF models (or any of my MRC planes for that matter)

Please note...the ferrite RF Chokes were a suggestion ONLY for HIGH CURRENT ESCs...like the F-4. I don't use them anywhere except when high current ESCs are involved.

The reason is....HIGH CURRENT ESCs are more prone to produce stronger common mode RF interference and radiate it out the leads of the ESC.

-GG

[GliderGuy]

Oh and it would be rude not to show you this!

Nicely done, Ben. Did you put a choke on each of the 10AWG (red and black) leads where they come out of the ESC? I can't tell from the photo. I've circled the leads I am referring to in the photo below?

If not, it is suggested that you do. Again, place them as close to the ESC as possible.

-GG

[themudduck]

Please note...the ferrite RF Chokes were a suggestion ONLY for HIGH CURRENT ESCs...like the F-4. I don't use them anywhere except when high current ESCs are involved.

The reason is....HIGH CURRENT ESCs are more prone to produce stronger common mode RF interference and radiate it out the leads of the ESC.

-GG

Good point! thank you.

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Nicely done, Ben. Did you put a choke on each of the 10AWG (red and black) leads where they come out of the ESC? I can't tell from the photo. I've circled the leads I am referring to in the photo below?

If not, it is suggested that you do. Again, place them as close to the ESC as possible.

-GG

Hey GG, yes, they’re right up next to the esc itself.

Thanks again !

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Range test and fast taxi this morning........

I’ve decided a brown out was definitely cause of crash. Here’s what happened today:

I did the range test very thoroughly (definitely skimped on doing this properly on the maiden and paid the ultimate price)...

With spectrum, select reduced power on the TX and I measured 30m away, stood and waggled the sticks - I had a mate change the orientation of the plane and we found a few spots where it was glitching-out / brown outs - a lot. I’ll do some research on spektrum forums and sus this out.

I did wonder why I don’t run the aerial out of the bottom of the fuse, and tape it to the underside...even to the same with the satellite but on the top of the fuse? Seems like that would really separate the electronics / motor / esc / battery and the aerial nicely?!

Don’t get me wrong - it wasn’t unresponsive but a bit glitchy with reduced power in range test mode, but not 100%. I need to find out if it’s normal to glitch at but right at 30m or if it should be faultless in that situation. Then I can decide what the hell im gonna do next .........and no I don’t wanna move to another radio system now 😂

thanks guys - we plug on....we go again....we will get there!

happy monday

ben

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Oh and another thing I noticed, it’s still nose heavy, but my battery is as far back as it can go!?

I need to get down into the detail of this and measure accurately where it’s currently sitting and get some photos!

Any thoughts or suggestions? Pic attached

[GliderGuy]

Oh and another thing I noticed, it’s still nose heavy, but my battery is as far back as it can go!?

I need to get down into the detail of this and measure accurately where it’s currently sitting and get some photos!

Any thoughts or suggestions? Pic attached

That's pretty close to where my Admiral Pro 6000 sits. My battery actually sits even a bit further forward. According to the MRC webpage, it weighs 844g / 29.77oz I am happy with the flight characteristics, but I normally fly a bit nose heavy with my birds.

-GG

[locharrow]

You must have a very heavy battery or a very light fan if nose heavy is where your at with that battery position. My tuppence worth would be to move that battery forward 200mm and fly it nose heavy with a couple % up trim for the first flight. It was a rearward cg that caused my unintended maiden flight and boy was it pitchy!! I had to cut some cockpit foam to get my battery forward enough to get a comfortable cg and I use heavy batteries. I do have a heavy metal fan that dictates a forward battery position. However......the proof of the pudding ......

I had a mate change the orientation of the plane and we found a few spots where it was glitching-out / brown outs - a lot.

[Evan D]

I assume 200mm was a typo?

Ben, words mean something. Typically a brown out is a loss of power or a reduction in power to a point the item being supplied (receiver in our case) stops working. A "fade" or "signal loss" or "lost signal" is the term most use for the link between transmitter and receiver is lost or broken. For open source it results in "RF Critical" notices.

I say this because they are two very different things and may cause confusion to those trying to help.

[BenAtkinsonUK]

I assume 200mm was a typo?

Ben, words mean something. Typically a brown out is a loss of power or a reduction in power to a point the item being supplied (receiver in our case) stops working. A "fade" or "signal loss" or "lost signal" is the term most use for the link between transmitter and receiver is lost or broken. For open source it results in "RF Critical" notices.

I say this because they are two very different things and may cause confusion to those trying to help.

AHHH ! Ok - thanks very much for correcting. I think given the range test, it was a fade or signal losss.....Thanks ! Any ideas?

[BenAtkinsonUK]

That's pretty close to where my Admiral Pro 6000 sits. My battery actually sits even a bit further forward. According to the MRC webpage, it weighs 844g / 29.77oz I am happy with the flight characteristics, but I normally fly a bit nose heavy with my birds.

-GG

Yeh mine are VERY similar in weight to yours buddy. Thanks I'll give it some more up compared to last time and see how we go.

[BenAtkinsonUK]

I had a mate change the orientation of the plane and we found a few spots where it was glitching-out / brown outs - a lot.

Sorry - NOT brown outs - SIGNAL LOSS......but yeh still a concern..


What do you all think of my POKE a tiny hole in the Fuse and stick the antenna out idea? Could test at least I guess...

[Evan D]

Sorry, no great earth shattering ideas... I think you are on the right track. I'm in the middle of similar trouble shooting with my flightline Bronco. I had a Orange 12ch receiver with a satellite in it to accomplish all the mixing I wanted and need that receiver for the upcoming MiG. Both DSMX and the main was in the rear with one coax antennae up behind the wing and one along the side behind the batteries. The satellite is in the nose, in the plastic nose cone. I swapped in a 9C Orange, both similar and DSMX, and in the same spot as the 12ch.

Yesterday I didn't have as good of range check. It failed the full distance when the plane was head on to me. The satellite should have given me a great range check at that angle and had before with the 12ch.

AHHH ! Ok - thanks very much for correcting. I think given the range test, it was a fade or signal losss.....Thanks ! Any ideas?

[Evan D]

Foam is fairly invisible to the RF signal. Doing that would get the end of the antennae further away from things that could shadow the signal.

Sorry - NOT brown outs - SIGNAL LOSS......but yeh still a concern..


What do you all think of my POKE a tiny hole in the Fuse and stick the antenna out idea? Could test at least I guess...

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Sorry, no great earth shattering ideas... I think you are on the right track. I'm in the middle of similar trouble shooting with my flightline Bronco. I had a Orange 12ch receiver with a satellite in it to accomplish all the mixing I wanted and need that receiver for the upcoming MiG. Both DSMX and the main was in the rear with one coax antennae up behind the wing and one along the side behind the batteries. The satellite is in the nose, in the plastic nose cone. I swapped in a 9C Orange, both similar and DSMX, and in the same spot as the 12ch.

Yesterday I didn't have as good of range check. It failed the full distance when the plane was head on to me. The satellite should have given me a great range check at that angle and had before with the 12ch.

Thats interesting, really does seem like a science! Thanks...and good luck with your step. Hopefully I can get pretty good results next time round.

[locharrow]

I assume 200mm was a typo?............................................. Yes 20mm

[GliderGuy]

Oh and another thing I noticed, it’s still nose heavy, but my battery is as far back as it can go!?

I need to get down into the detail of this and measure accurately where it’s currently sitting and get some photos!

Any thoughts or suggestions? Pic attached

Hi Ben,
I measured my Admiral Pro 6000 mAh battery in the F-4. The rear of my battery is 1 inch forward of where you have your battery. Again, according to the MRC webpage, it weighs 844g / 29.77oz. Not saying my battery is correctly positioned, but I like the way it handles with the battery in this location. See your photo with the outline of my battery approximately shown.





-GG

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Hi Ben,
I measured my Admiral Pro 6000 mAh battery in the F-4. The rear of my battery is 1 inch forward of where you have your battery. Again, according to the MRC webpage, it weighs 844g / 29.77oz. Not saying my battery is correctly positioned, but I like the way it handles with the battery in this location. See your photo with the outline of my battery approximately shown.





-GG

Thanks mate...very similar to where I had it when I first flew it. Very nose heavy with the 8mm up on the elevator but....maybe I need a couple more mm up ....

Still need to fix this RF Link issue !