Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[locharrow]

"Hacksaw the glue? I used foam tac and some gorilla glue. It really wasn’t gonna come off in a hurry."

Cut 1/2" on the far side of the tail with a sharp blade or fine saw as far as the carbon tube but don't cut into the tube. Then, painstakingly remove every bit of foam and glue using any tool that works. Gorilla glue cuts and sands, never used foam tac so can't help with that! Clean the protruding carbon rod ready to insert in the new fuse. If the surface your left with is very pitted use two or three short carbon rods or even round lollipop sticks to secure it. Try to maintain a clean all round edge for cosmetics !! You'll get there .........good luck!!

[themudduck]

Thanks Hugh, GG...

Hugh, yeah - id certainly go with the extra insurance of a satellite receiver to help throw the signal out more reliably.

GG - that is interesting. Looks like an easy mod if there’s enough space in the fuse to do it!!


if I go down the new fuse route (most likely) ...what does everyone think about getting that glued tail off?? Hacksaw the glue? I used foam tac and some gorilla glue. It really wasn’t gonna come off in a hurry. And a similarly annoying situation - I added the 3D nozzles and took my time painting them, glued them in firmly!! So I need to get those off too. Any recommendations? I used Foam tac.

Final bit of salt in the wound - I just had a card through the post explaining my RCgeeks multiburner is stuck at customs and I owe £25!! Ahhh man.

Ben

Hey Ben, I have a little advice for you regarding Foam-Tac. FoamTac will soften when its heated - so if you can get a little hot water or steam into where the glue is, that can help you loosen things enough so that you can pull glued pieces apart. (also note, this is why you have to be careful about leaving your planes in a hot car). If you're trying to get something out that doesn't like hot water ( a servo for example) you can use Foam-Safe CA activator. The solvent in the activator will dissolve the bond and you can easily get the servo out without damaging anything. The activator will evaporate and not hurt anything.

[GliderGuy]

Thanks Hugh, GG...


GG - that is interesting. Looks like an easy mod if there’s enough space in the fuse to do it!!
.

Ben

Yes...there is plenty of room in the F=4. You can use the size of RF choke/filter that fits. The most critical place to put the choke(s) is on the side of the ESC that is closest to your receiver. Again, I lost both a 90 mm EDF A-10 and F-4 due to loss of control before using these chokes. I have flown the F-4 (and also added the AL37 to my collection) close to 1000 flights each and have not had a single radio glitch since i installed the chokes (same type of radio receiver/transmitter). It seems that the HAM radio guy knew what he was talking about.

-GG

[Hugh Wiedman]

Yes...there is plenty of room in the F=4. You can use the size of RF choke/filter that fits. The most critical place to put the choke(s) is on the side of the ESC that is closest to your receiver. Again, I lost both a 90 mm EDF A-10 and F-4 due to loss of control before using these chokes. I have flown the F-4 (and also added the AL37 to my collection) close to 1000 flights each and have not had a single radio glitch since i installed the chokes (same type of radio receiver/transmitter). It seems that the HAM radio guy knew what he was talking about.

-GG

GliderGuy very interesting, and I always thought a ferret choke was a maneuver done on that cute little mammal just before you removed it's skin for a fur coat for the misses. I'm definitely getting me some of those, never knew what they were for before but I guess you can always teach an old dog new tricks. All joking aside, are you saying that these should at least be installed around the + & - leads coming out of the ESC heading toward the battery and also bound with the throttle servo wire (all 3 inside one choke, or one for each or just on the power leads) as close to the ESC as possible? And also if possible on the 3 motor wires coming from the ESC to the EDF bound together in 1 choke? Is your HAM radio guy saying the interference is generated from the ESC and transferred along the power cables and throttle servo wire, and that the receiver may not necessarily get interference from just the electricity that these wires carry but is something more? Also did he comment on those small metal "life saver" things wound around the wires coming from a UBEC (or from an ESC that has an internal BEC), are they also some form of limitation on interference? Sorry for all the questions, just want to understand it better. Anyway, I am going to give it a go, can never be too careful when it comes to the radio signal.

[Evan D]

Good questions Hugh. In days gone by most all ESCs had ferrite rings the throttle wire was looped a few times through. The reason was the 72MHz receivers were very susceptible to RF from the ESC's switching and internal clock. Some ESC manufacturers even made the internal clock 72MHz (crazy).

Once we went to 2.4G the interference was less, well interfering, because of the different frequency. I've taken them off ESCs that have come with them for years especially when I need that extra 2" of throttle wire length. I would say of my 81 ready to fly electric airplanes, helos and quads 2/3 of them don't have rings. I think my helos do and I'd guess a half dozen of the planes. The quads don't.

Curious I went to motion and looked at pictures. For the Freewing ESCs the only ESC that has a ring is the 30A for the 64mm EDF. Surprisingly the BEC power wire that comes in the 90mm EDFs has them.

[GliderGuy]

GliderGuy very interesting, and I always thought a ferret choke was a maneuver done on that cute little mammal just before you removed it's skin for a fur coat for the misses. I'm definitely getting me some of those, never knew what they were for before but I guess you can always teach an old dog new tricks. All joking aside, are you saying that these should at least be installed around the + & - leads coming out of the ESC heading toward the battery and also bound with the throttle servo wire (all 3 inside one choke, or one for each or just on the power leads) as close to the ESC as possible? And also if possible on the 3 motor wires coming from the ESC to the EDF bound together in 1 choke? Is your HAM radio guy saying the interference is generated from the ESC and transferred along the power cables and throttle servo wire, and that the receiver may not necessarily get interference from just the electricity that these wires carry but is something more? Also did he comment on those small metal "life saver" things wound around the wires coming from a UBEC (or from an ESC that has an internal BEC), are they also some form of limitation on interference? Sorry for all the questions, just want to understand it better. Anyway, I am going to give it a go, can never be too careful when it comes to the radio signal.

The wires coming from both sides (ends) of the ESC will function as antenna and "may" emit sufficient radio noise to disrupt the receiver as it goes through the frequency hopping look-up table with the transmitter. All it takes is for this process to go askew and bye bye control until (or even if) the handshake gets re-established. In the case of my 90 mm A-10, this happened twice over a period of several months. The first crash was repairable, but the second was into trees and not repairable. Things are going nicely, then all of a sudden...the bird goes haywire. The same happened with my F-4. But...my P-38 has never had any issues (same radio type xmit/recvr). When I mentioned this to the HAM guy, he immediately came to the conclusion of the common mode interference that ESCs produce is known to be greater when driving high current EDFs.

What I am saying, in a nut shell, after I installed the clip-on ferrite chokes...not once in probably 1000 flights since have I experienced loss of control. Either with the F-4 (a new one) or the AL37. If the issue was going to rear its ugly head, I've flown so many flights with the chokes that I am a believer. 2.4 GHz or not....FHSS...or not, the HAM guy stated that It is possible to have a loss of handshake due to the RF noise generated by the ESC. Doesn't happen often, but once is too many times.

To your other question. It doesn't matter how many chokes or whether or not you group wires together, but position the clip-on chokes as close to where ALL the wires (each and every wire) leave the ESC. If you have room, put them on the side of the wires that go to the engine. But, the more critical side is the wires that go to the battery/receiver/etc. I also took the green toroid rings from the crashed birds and placed them on any small wire heading for the receiver from the ESC. Overkill, no doubt. But, you know... almost a thousand flights with no loss of control is rather comforting!

The pack from Amazon gives you a variety of choices in size.

From Amazon.... Cedmon 20 Pieces Clip-on Ferrite Ring Core RFI EMI Noise Suppressor Cable Clip for 3mm/ 5mm/ 7mm/ 9mm/ 13mm Diameter Cable, Black

Be more advised to use with HIGH CURRENT ESCs. The magnitude of the RF noise is a function of the current (per the HAM). Again, my low current P-38 has never experienced this loss of handshake.

Cheers,
-GG

[Hugh Wiedman]

GliderGuy thanks again for explaining this is great detail for me, I do appreciate it, so much so, that I just placed an order for some. If it works for you, that's all I need to know, that's endorsement enough for me!

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Thanks very much guys. It's sounding more and more like hat happened to me. That - teamed up with a satellite rx and hopefully that will solve that! I'll order some today.
Couple more general

Nose gear strut....the two fine springs are damaged...what function do they have? Struggling to find a replacement!

[Evan D]

Not sure I know about the nose gear strut having any fine springs? The one inside for suspension? The one on the door to pull it closed?

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Here they are Evan!

I guess the spare fuse comes with the door servo, i Know it IS fitted with the nose door and landing light. Reason is - the steering servo wires were pulled out...so I was going to use the nose door from the crashed one for the steering on the new / repaired one!

I plan on hooking up all the servos to a servo tester to see how they're doing...I worry there is other superficial damage (or worse...gears stripped etc?) that I may not see / know about...

Just in the lead up to paying for a fuse...(over the ARF)

Thanks again,

Ben

[locharrow]

"Nose gear strut....the two fine springs are damaged...what function do they have? Struggling to find a replacement!"

They pull in the landing light panel at the front of the nose leg...attached to hooks on the panel and wee screws on the leg. You might get springs to suit out of a click pen or such ...If not, a short elastic band attached with superglue would perform the same function and solve the problem. Led light connections can be soldered back on...don't ask how I know!!

[coyote137]

Just finishing off painting my phantom in No43 squadron RAF leauchars, Scotland 1974,


In memory of my first airshows here in scotland

[Elbee]

Just finishing off painting my phantom in No43 squadron RAF leauchars, Scotland 1974. In memory of my first airshows here in scotland]

C1, Incredible build & a great livery. Bravo Zulu, Sir. Best, LB

[locharrow]

"Just finishing off painting my phantom in No43 squadron RAF Leuchars, Scotland 1974,"

THE FIGHTING COCKS !! Excellent work !

Watched them often...and Omega Squadron who were station there for a while. My company made presentation plaques for the P&SS there . The boss,at that time,Sqd.Ldr Nicol, managed to get me a few sessions in the Phantom simulator. The scenery board was the size of a football pitch. Made up like a model railway scene on one side. moss & lichen etc., and a plaster simulated ocean on the other with a minuscule model carrier decked out with tiny optic fibre lights. The whole thing was mounted vertically on a swivel .A camera travelled on a long boom controlled by a computer that filled a whole room. It would most likely be less powerful than a mobile phone now !!

[paulsnapp]

I have having a time trying to get the wings to mount. Left side went on with a lot of pressure. Right side will not go on unless I remove the left and remove the rear rod. Mount the right wing with only the front rod, which takes a whole lot of pressure. Then push the rear rod into to right wing from the left side. Again a whole lot of pressure. The two pics are the leading edges at the fuse. The left aligns with the molded outline in the fuse but the right is below the molded outline on the fuse. I would think this would give different incidence angles and the plane would have an inherent spin? Is the left wing supposed to align with the molding outline on the fuse? Thanks for any help!!

[locharrow]

Not looking good Paul. You will have to check whether it is the wing location slots or the fuselage slots that are out of line. Once you know you should contact your supplier and demand a replacement. It would be a major operation to try to rectify this yourself.

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Hi guys, very close to ordering:

Fuselage (and decals?)
Nose cone
Nose steering servo
Control rod set (couple are bent and while I could straighten them...they're cheap to have the satisfaction of them being dead straight!)
Control board.....(quite a few pins are broken and while this damaged one works...I don't wanna fly something with weaker solder joints...)

Still tempted by the ARF but at the mo I'm fairly confident I'd get it up and running with just those bits...


Question:
does the nose gear door automatically sequence, ie - is it the control board that does that? Or do I need to worry about programming it?

Ben

[Evan D]

Yes it's sequenced through the MCBe.

[BenAtkinsonUK]

The parts are ordered!

Watch this space.....FAR FAR FAR more testing this time.....fast taxi's....ground testing.....I'll get my mate to drive it up to the other end of the (full scale) runway and we'll get on the walkie talkies.....

PHEW. Relief....less angry.. haha..

Thanks again for the help in all this guys

[Elbee]

BA, Very glad to read you are getting back on the horse that threw you. It is really a superb flying model and simply beautiful in the air and on the ground. Post pics and thoughts as you rebuild her. All the best, LB