Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

Elbee , hope you find a way. This ability with the Spektrum is by far worth its weight in gold, the single, most useful transmitter setting (OK, D/R, expo and throttle cut aren't bad either). I'm constantly refining the elevator and aileron trims (usually none or just a click) with almost every flight and every plane when deploying flaps. Seems like it even changes slightly as the day heats up from the early morning or when the winds pick up or shift. And as I continue to work on my landing techniques, the ability to adjust elevator trim in flight with the flaps fully extended has helped greatly. Takes all the guessing out and alleviates any extra stress, cause god knows, I got plenty of stress emanating from my poor flying techniques.

[locharrow]

After losing several planes over the years including a Hangar 9 Miss America, a much loved H 9 Bluenose Mustang and a Freewing SU35 to undoubted brownouts with an eight channel Spektrum I binned it and bought a Taranis Plus 9. Other than a couple of fumble finger mishaps the Taranis has not missed a beat. Programming mixes is virtually unlimited, I'm running 12 channels on my SU 35 using about five mixes. I don't want to start a brand argument...just my experience of Spektrum.

Just received my edf for the F4 ....Freewing V2 6s 12 blade 1835kv... any of you chaps have experience or opinions on this in the F4 ??

[billd3]

Hugh,
Thanks for taking the time on the explanation. I am an oddball I fly with a Hitech Aurora 9 radio, have been for the last 8 years. Anyhow I have the plane setup per the manual on the throws with the elevator set at 8mm up trim in the neutral position. I have flap/elevator mix set per the manual as well.

I did get the double burner installed and I am working on installing the aluminum tape now.

I just need to pick up a small 2S battery to hook up the burner.
Later!!
Anthony

Sometimes I get a little thick headed but in every plane I have ever built/flown for 35 years I have ALWAYS mixed DOWN ELEVATOR with flaps. Can someone explain to me why it is necessary to mix UP ELEVATOR on the F-4???
Thanks in advance,
Bill

[Waconut]

Sometimes I get a little thick headed but in every plane I have ever built/flown for 35 years I have ALWAYS mixed DOWN ELEVATOR with flaps. Can someone explain to me why it is necessary to mix UP ELEVATOR on the F-4???
Thanks in advance,
Bill

I may be wrong but my guess is due to the wing design being delta like and the short tail moment lowering the flaps will drop the nose.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Maybe a better explanation of what I said earlier is that the flaps create lift, but at the aft portion of the wing only causing the leading edge to go down, resulting in a need for up elevator trim. Commercial jets, and the FW T-45 also have slats on the leading edge of the wings. This also creates lift, but at the leading edge. So with flaps and slats, the entire wing experiences lift and I would suspect (don't have a T-45 though) that those jet would take some down elevator to maintain level flight. The B-24's wing on the other hand is relatively narrow and towards the front of the plane, so that the lift generated by the flaps is dispersed to the forward section of the plane resulting in the need for some down elevator. The tail section is relatively further back allowing the elevator to get uninterrupted air flow as well.

As I stated earlier, with flaps deployed for take-off on my F-4's, to maintain level flight requires the servo travel on the elevator to -20 (starting at 0 for flaps up) and -25 for landing flaps (this is actual servo travel, not trim numbers or % compensation in the Flap System).

[vduniec]

Been doing some printing in the down time.

[RCjetdude]

Been doing some printing in the down time.

Looking good sir!

[vduniec]

Looking good sir!

Thanks Dude. I saw a repost of your conversion and it answered my question of how to make an actuator for the front door. Mine doesn’t close completely but the only time people will notice it is when it’s flying and I have it on an 8S so hopefully it’ll be going too fast to see. ;)

Sorry we never had a chance to get together awhile back. Maybe sometime in the future.

[billd3]

Maybe a better explanation of what I said earlier is that the flaps create lift, but at the aft portion of the wing only causing the leading edge to go down, resulting in a need for up elevator trim. Commercial jets, and the FW T-45 also have slats on the leading edge of the wings. This also creates lift, but at the leading edge. So with flaps and slats, the entire wing experiences lift and I would suspect (don't have a T-45 though) that those jet would take some down elevator to maintain level flight. The B-24's wing on the other hand is relatively narrow and towards the front of the plane, so that the lift generated by the flaps is dispersed to the forward section of the plane resulting in the need for some down elevator. The tail section is relatively further back allowing the elevator to get uninterrupted air flow as well.

As I stated earlier, with flaps deployed for take-off on my F-4's, to maintain level flight requires the servo travel on the elevator to -20 (starting at 0 for flaps up) and -25 for landing flaps (this is actual servo travel, not trim numbers or % compensation in the Flap System).

Thanks, Hugh...I think I'm beginning to understand but I'm still thinking through it. I have 35 yrs. in the hobby and most of it in prop driven giant scale warbirds and aerobatic planes...just starting with these EDF jets and the learning curve seems somewhat different. Forgive my ignorance but I don't understand your comments on "servo travel on the elevator to -20 (starting at 0 for flaps up) and -25 for landing flaps". I understand servo travel in % of deflection or degrees. Do you mean "-20" equaling -20 degrees; or 20%??

Thanks again ,
Bill

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks, Hugh...I think I'm beginning to understand but I'm still thinking through it. I have 35 yrs. in the hobby and most of it in prop driven giant scale warbirds and aerobatic planes...just starting with these EDF jets and the learning curve seems somewhat different. Forgive my ignorance but I don't understand your comments on "servo travel on the elevator to -20 (starting at 0 for flaps up) and -25 for landing flaps". I understand servo travel in % of deflection or degrees. Do you mean "-20" equaling -20 degrees; or 20%??

Thanks again ,
Bill

Not exactly, I mean if you go to say the Servo Setup screen, you can see that exact position of each servo. I'm just trying to be clear (as mud maybe) which screen I'm referring to. One click of trim with the trim switches is actually 1/2 of the value shown on the servo travel screen and the same with the % adjustments put in on the Flap System menu. Sometimes you need 2 clicks or 2% change to have it reflect as 1 point on the servo travel screen.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks, Hugh...I think I'm beginning to understand but I'm still thinking through it. I have 35 yrs. in the hobby and most of it in prop driven giant scale warbirds and aerobatic planes...just starting with these EDF jets and the learning curve seems somewhat different.

Thanks again ,
Bill

I think it also has to do with the location of the CG relative to the aft of the wing and the flaps. Most of these foam jets have the CG toward the front of the wing root exaggerating the lift behind it from the flaps. All of my foam prop warbirds react the same, needing up elevator so it may be that your large scale warbirds are more evenly balanced from front to back. Or maybe (could be quite likely) I'm just full of a lot of which, if you ask my wife, is the real truth.

[Hugh Wiedman]

billd3 My mind definitely works in mysterious ways, even I can't figure out what I meant in describing the numbers I gave you on servo travel 2 posts above.

Hopefully, this makes more sense: The 0/-20/-25 values I gave on elevator servo travel with flaps comes directly off of the Servo Setup screen which shows exactly how the servos are moving and by how much. I did not want to give you the % numbers from the Flap System setup, because that's only a part of the story. The values I have there where only my first guess % numbers based upon others numbers and the manual. I use F Mode set up for ailerons and flaps tied to the flap switch so I can adjust both surfaces in flight with each flap position. In some positions, I may have say a -8% on the flap system, but I have +4. or say -12 on the trim monitor on the main flight screen. One position I have -18%, and -32 in the trim setting. By just giving you the exact amount the servo travels for each flap position, it balances any + or - I've adjusted in the trim offsetting or adding to the % programmed into the Flap System.

Now I hope were all confused Let's have another drink and go flying!!

[Waconut]

Elbee I did finish up the nomenclature on the F-4. A big thanks goes out to you for the info provided. I wound up not putting very much of it on. It got to a point where I really liked the look and was afraid more would have been too much.
I then sprayed 3 coats of satin Polycrylic through a new touch up gun I bought. I am really impressed with the gun and will use it to paint my F-18.

Anyhow today was the best weather day we had in over a week. I took my jets out for a group photo. Can’t wait to get these guys out to the flying field.
Later!!
Anthony

[Elbee]

Elbee I did finish up the nomenclature on the F-4. A big thanks goes out to you for the info provided. I wound up not putting very much of it on. It got to a point where I really liked the look and was afraid more would have been too much.
I then sprayed 3 coats of satin Polycrylic through a new touch up gun I bought. I am really impressed with the gun and will use it to paint my F-18.

Anyhow today was the best weather day we had in over a week. I took my jets out for a group photo. Can’t wait to get these guys out to the flying field.
Later!!
Anthony

WN, Great looking stable. I hear ya on the Nomenclature, you can certainly go crazy trying to sort out what goes where. 'Too much' is in the eye of the beholder, I think, but we all know what we like and sometimes enough is enough. You do great work, Anthony. Looking forward to watching your F-18C build. Best, LB

[vduniec]

Making steady progress. If I couldn't get the sharkmouth to workout, I was going to have to reconsider which squadron to do. Since it's good enough, it's on to the next phase, making the rest of the decals.

[Elbee]

Making steady progress. If I couldn't get the sharkmouth to workout, I was going to have to reconsider which squadron to do. Since it's good enough, it's on to the next phase, making the rest of the decals.

VD, I think that looks great at least in your picture. Did Callie do you graphics? I had her cut the Shark Mouth into 3 parts, Red, Black, and White and used the White for an out line template and painted the white, then added the Black and Red with her graphics. Worked well.

Also, Are those your F-4 E/G 3DP Files for this mod? I missed that in the thread. Best, LB

[vduniec]

VD, I think that looks great at least in your picture. Did Callie do you graphics? I had her cut the Shark Mouth into 3 parts, Red, Black, and White and used the White for an out line template and painted the white, then added the Black and Red with her graphics. Worked well.

Also, Are those your F-4 E/G 3DP Files for this mod? I missed that in the thread. Best, LB

Hey LB,
Those are my homemade decals. Resized some images downloaded from the internet and printed them with my laser printer on white water slide decals paper.

I make my own decals. I still use Callie occasionally but she’s a little behind now. Decals will be a combination of water slides and vinyl cut outs off of my vinyl cutter.

The 3D files were downloaded from Thingiverse.com. It’s not my design but the files are fantastic and they fit perfectly.

[Elbee]

Hey LB,
Those are my homemade decals. Resized some images downloaded from the internet and printed them with my laser printer on white water slide decals paper.

I make my own decals. I still use Callie occasionally but she’s a little behind now. Decals will be a combination of water slides and vinyl cut outs off of my vinyl cutter.

The 3D files were downloaded from Thingiverse.com. It’s not my design but the files are fantastic and they fit perfectly.

Whoops, you know I believe I'd asked about your graphics once before. Anywho, I will check out Thingiverse, I am happy to read that the parts fit well. Really want to do an "E/G" either a Wiesel or IDF. Thank you very much for the info. Best, LB

[vduniec]

Repaint and weathering complete! On to painting and adding the stores.

[Hugh Wiedman]

vduniec Outstanding, love the homemade graphics and the repaint, definitely looks like the real deal!