New FMS/Eflite Su-30 coming soon

[Hugh Wiedman]

Did the maiden flight this morning plus a second flight. Sorry, no video. I didn't want the distraction of having a camera sitting on the beak of my ball cap. I was a bit nervous with this one mostly due to the cost of it.
As already said, this plane is HEAVY and you can feel it, too, when flying. It flies HEAVY. You don't throw it around like you can the F-18 or L-39. Even my Freewing SU-35 flies much lighter than this one. At 3500' altitude, this thing takes a long piece of runway to get off the ground in a "scale" fashion. If you crank on the elevator, then it will leap into the air in a shorter distance. Flying around, it is very stable with AS3X working. With SAFE on and limited bank angles, it felt even heavier but not in a problematic way. I prefer to fly it without SAFE. The first landing with airbrake deployed was quite fast, but no faster than any of my other flapless jets (eg, FlexJet). The second landing, I figured out how to come in high alpha with some power and it slowed down very nicely and landed in a much more relaxed and comfortable manner. The retracts seem to be quite robust as both landings, the plane rolled onto the grass at the side. The plane has tremendous presence in the air and makes all the right noises. I think another 2 or 3 flights when I get more proficient at slow, high alpha landings, flying this plane will be an "ordinary" process. These first two flights were most enjoyable, a bit on the thrilling side and since nothing bad happened, I'm happy with the purchase even though I have "better" jets in the hanger and way better value jets.
Note: This plane is set up totally stock - no flaperons, AR636 bound in SAFE SELECT, airbrake on flap channel, all throws per the book as is the CG, flown on a 5000mah, 70C, Revolectrix battery. Timer set at 3:30 with battery reading 3.75v/per after landing. Once I become more used to it, I'll fly it at well below max throttle and extract more time out of it. Future flights will result in a video.

Way to go xviper. Glad you finally got it out. We're still in lockdown for maybe another week or so and I can't wait to get out again. I was only able to get 8 flights in before the :mask: and all my landing were with flaperons, so haven't had a chance to try the air brake. Thanks for the update and advice. Looking forward to a video!

[xviper]

Way to go xviper. Glad you finally got it out. We're still in lockdown for maybe another week or so and I can't wait to get out again. I was only able to get 8 flights in before the :mask: and all my landing were with flaperons, so haven't had a chance to try the air brake. Thanks for the update and advice. Looking forward to a video!

What was your final solution to having flaperons and keeping the airbrake? I remember some discussions about tying the airbrake to one of the ailerons (and the related problems with that) and the addition of a second RX. Perhaps you could PM me these details if you don't wish to post it here. I have not eliminated the idea of flaperons although my second landing was actually quite slow. I'm still considering the Lemon 7-ch stabilizer plus RX, which would easily take care of this option.

[Hugh Wiedman]

xviper I ended up taking an AR 7350 out of an older plane that didn't need 7 channels and put it in the Su-30, then programmed the gains (without SAFE) as per the AR 636 that it came with. I think the Lemon 7-channel is a great way to go. BTW, what CG did you end up using. I seem to remember that the book calls for a wide range in the CG, something like 115-145 mm. I set mine in the middle at 130 but have yet to move it in either direction. I liked it at 130, but maybe at 135-140 it would be even easier to get it into high alpha.

[xviper]

xviper I ended up taking an AR 7350 out of an older plane that didn't need 7 channels and put it in the Su-30, then programmed the gains (without SAFE) as per the AR 636 that it came with. I think the Lemon 7-channel is a great way to go. BTW, what CG did you end up using. I seem to remember that the book calls for a wide range in the CG, something like 115-145 mm. I set mine in the middle at 130 but have yet to move it in either direction. I liked it at 130, but maybe at 135-140 it would be even easier to get it into high alpha.

I tried to do as you did and put it right in the middle of the recommended range, however, the battery I'm using (heavy Revolectrix) is all the way back against that little step wall and mine is a little nose heavy. I'm happy with it as it seems to fly OK.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I tried to do as you did and put it right in the middle of the recommended range, however, the battery I'm using (heavy Revolectrix) is all the way back against that little step wall and mine is a little nose heavy. I'm happy with it as it seems to fly OK.

I put twin after burners in it as well and they are virtually at the tail end because of the relatively short exhaust nozzles. This added a little tail weight so I can only get to 138 with the battery all the way back.

[PaulZ]

What was your final solution to having flaperons and keeping the airbrake? I remember some discussions about tying the airbrake to one of the ailerons (and the related problems with that) and the addition of a second RX. Perhaps you could PM me these details if you don't wish to post it here. I have not eliminated the idea of flaperons although my second landing was actually quite slow. I'm still considering the Lemon 7-ch stabilizer plus RX, which would easily take care of this option.

xviper I ended up going back to no flaperons and back to the stock setup. Landing with high alpha was more effective with this jet than flaperons. Once you learn how to manage throttle she behaves really well in slow high alpha landings.

[Bajora]

Finally spotted one of these locally. What an impressive model! Adam @ Wine Country Flyers flew this one like a BOSS!

[Hugh Wiedman]

xviper I ended up going back to no flaperons and back to the stock setup. Landing with high alpha was more effective with this jet than flaperons. Once you learn how to manage throttle she behaves really well in slow high alpha landings.

VEERRRY INTERESTING PaulZ , (I've been watching too much Hogan's Heroes-wish they'd bring back Black Sheep)! Only got 8 flights in before the shut down and all of my landings were with landing flaps only, no air-brake (OK just a little chicken). It landed nicely with the flaps, but did you find that it lands better with the air brake and no flaps? Guess that may make sense as I suspect the flaps keeps the attitude a little more level and it may be easier to get it into a high alpha landing attitude with out flaps. Did you ever land it with flaps & the air brake? I was planning on trying that next week as it seems our field might open this weekend, so very interested in what you found out. I still need to keep the flaps at least for take-off as I'm flying on grass and it did get off the deck easier with flaps as opposed to no flaps.

[PaulZ]

Hi Hugh Wiedman yes, I tried flaps and airbrake at one time and it did not feel much different than airbrake and no flaps. I found that the airbrake is more effective than the flaperons in slowing the model down for landings. Also I did not see any pitch change with the airbrake deployed so give it a try. Curious to what you will see...

[Aussie1]

Hi Hugh Wiedman yes, I tried flaps and airbrake at one time and it did not feel much different than airbrake and no flaps. I found that the airbrake is more effective than the flaperons in slowing the model down for landings. Also I did not see any pitch change with the airbrake deployed so give it a try. Curious to what you will see...

I found that this jet doesn't like too much flap, so I land with take-off flap, about 15 degrees and speed brake out, really settles nicely.

[Hugh Wiedman]

PaulZ and Aussie1 thanks to you both for the intel, will try it and let you know. I really appreciate both your input, it's so great to have a place like this to get sound advice from those in the know.

[PaulZ]

PaulZ and Aussie1 thanks to you both for the intel, will try it and let you know. I really appreciate both your input, it's so great to have a place like this to get sound advice from those in the know.

Agree it is nice to have this forum. I can't find anything anymore on RC Groups. It is a huge mess with everyone starting their own version of the topics related to the same model etc. HS is organized so much better.

[Gvasiloff]

Anyone upgraded the elevator servos? What’s a good servo to replace it with?

[nuts-n-volts]

Just me, I guess. I use full flap and speed brake for landings and she slows up quite nicely. Of course, I also add power with a nose high approach to flare.

[xviper]

Hugh Wiedman Got it out today for a couple more flights. Still working on that high alpha landing. This vid, it landed on the grass beside the runway (not on purpose but still good as this plane tends to roll forever on the smooth surface).

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh Wiedman Got it out today for a couple more flights. Still working on that high alpha landing. This vid, it landed on the grass beside the runway (not on purpose but still good as this plane tends to roll forever on the smooth surface).

Great video, you fly that thing way to well for having only a few flights on it, I'm green with envy and quite jealous. Seems like you got the best of both worlds, taking off on asphalt and landing on grass. Love your field with the water on the one side, but don't think I could fly there because at some point I'd probably end up "in the drink".

[xviper]

Great video, you fly that thing way to well for having only a few flights on it, I'm green with envy and quite jealous. Seems like you got the best of both worlds, taking off on asphalt and landing on grass. Love your field with the water on the one side, but don't think I could fly there because at some point I'd probably end up "in the drink".

It's interesting that you mentioned the "lake". Another flyer was there today and he said that was THE one thing he hated about the site - the lake. Most of us have just gotten used to it being there. I've lost 2 planes in the lake - one I got back by paddling out with the club row boat, the other is likely still embedded in the mud at the bottom. The one I never got back was the Freewing F5. I didn't like it anyway. Not bad for flying there for 4 years.

(The "lake" is actually an outflow pond from the gas plant right next door. Up till last year, you wouldn't dare touch the water. It was so badly polluted, even the ducks and geese would not land there. They've cleaned it up now because they are trying to sell the property. Back then, when a person retrieved a plane, it had to be carefully cleaned and disinfected - kinda like what they're doing now with the Covid-19 thing.)

[Hugh Wiedman]

As I mentioned yesterday in What did you Fly Today, I finally got out flying yesterday for the first time in forever and got 20 flights in, 5 of which were with the SU-30. That brings my total flights with it to a whopping 13, so I'm still tinkering around with setting her up. Used the air brake for the first time, so here's my thoughts on flaperons and the air brake, since I originally set it up with a 7 channel AS3X to use both. And keep in mind "I ain't no expert", this is my limited opinion only and have been flying EDF's for only 3 years, so others will far more skill than me should be listened to first:

1) The high gains definitely keep it quite stable and even with factors of 70-90 (which I initially thought were too high, but every else confirmed they were not), there is no oscillation at full power
2) Since I fly off of grass mainly, the flaperons were a great benefit in take-off. It gives me a nice smooth scale like lift off after about 150 feet or less. My flap deflection is very modest at 10 mm and only 15 mm for landing flaps to keep from over extending the servo travel when deploying flaps. I tried taking off with no flaps yesterday (and calm winds), and although it got off in an extra 50 feet, it seemed sluggish and awkward at getting off the deck because it could have used more runway speed.
3) Landing with flaps only was OK, like many of my other jets (F-4 and F-16) but up until yesterday, I had not tried the air brake (cause I got no guts). Yesterday I landed 1st with flaps only again, then with take-off flaps and the air brake, and the last 3 with full flaps and the air brake. Since this bird is very heavy, it's like accelerating a semi-truck but once moving, it is equally challenging to slow down it's considerable momentum. The air brake was the best solution for that. Frankly, I loved landing with full flaps (although admittedly only 15 mm, so not that much) and the air brake, which is definitely my preferred landing configuration. :hugging:

If I flew off of asphalt only, I'd have to say flaps aren't necessary and landing with the air brake only is just fine. But flying off of grass, the benefits of take-off flaps are significant, and although landing with flaps only is OK, it sure is nice to have both on landing.

[PaulZ]

Thanks Hugh Wiedman ! A very good analysis and consistent with what I have observed. I fly off a paved runway so airbrake is all that is needed.

[jetdoc]

After reading this entire thread I've noticed that it has changed from an Eflite Su-30 thread into more of an AR636 programming thread with a common goal in mind; to increase takeoff and landing performance. I fly from a grass field at 800' ASL and have no trouble flying any of the newer edf's from my field. I did have an early FW F-86 That would clog with grass clippings before it ever got to flying speed. Flying stabs and the ability to get the CG far enough aft for proper rotation would probably have helped, but que sera, sera. I never use flaps on takeoff with my FW Me-262, FW A-4, or FW MiG-21. I fly exclusively with HRB 5000 50C with no issue. I find that a CG toward the aft limit and full up elevator until rotation on takeoff and proper airspeed/alpha on approach solves most of the issues inherent to grass ops, Delta and semi-delta models such as the A-4 and MiG-21 really taught me those lessons well and greatly improved my takeoff and landing techniques. I have a BNF Eflite Su-30 on backorder and plan to fly it pretty much stock with HRB 6000 50C's full aft in the battery compartment. I will reprogram stick priority from 160% to 100% in order to take advantage of AS3X over full stick movement. At 160% AS3X is only actually stabilizing up to the first 20% of stick movement (or so) from center with none thereafter. Hard to visualize until seen on a graph. I've watched all the grass ops videos and have come to the conclusion that the Su-30 seems to perform better when flown more like a delta than a conventional platform. I'll ditch the grasscatcher on the nose gear, program max stabilator throws and I have no doubt she'll fly as good as she looks. In the past I've been guilty of over-engineering and over-complicating planes in order to mask deficiencies in my own skills when improving my skills and changing my techniques were really the answer to the problem. The key to rectifying a problem is to first recognize the problem.