Originally posted by xviper
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Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.
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Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post
Way to go xviper. Glad you finally got it out. We're still in lockdown for maybe another week or so and I can't wait to get out again. I was only able to get 8 flights in before the and all my landing were with flaperons, so haven't had a chance to try the air brake. Thanks for the update and advice. Looking forward to a video!
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xviper I ended up taking an AR 7350 out of an older plane that didn't need 7 channels and put it in the Su-30, then programmed the gains (without SAFE) as per the AR 636 that it came with. I think the Lemon 7-channel is a great way to go. BTW, what CG did you end up using. I seem to remember that the book calls for a wide range in the CG, something like 115-145 mm. I set mine in the middle at 130 but have yet to move it in either direction. I liked it at 130, but maybe at 135-140 it would be even easier to get it into high alpha.Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.
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Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Postxviper I ended up taking an AR 7350 out of an older plane that didn't need 7 channels and put it in the Su-30, then programmed the gains (without SAFE) as per the AR 636 that it came with. I think the Lemon 7-channel is a great way to go. BTW, what CG did you end up using. I seem to remember that the book calls for a wide range in the CG, something like 115-145 mm. I set mine in the middle at 130 but have yet to move it in either direction. I liked it at 130, but maybe at 135-140 it would be even easier to get it into high alpha.
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Originally posted by xviper View PostI tried to do as you did and put it right in the middle of the recommended range, however, the battery I'm using (heavy Revolectrix) is all the way back against that little step wall and mine is a little nose heavy. I'm happy with it as it seems to fly OK.Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.
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Originally posted by xviper View PostWhat was your final solution to having flaperons and keeping the airbrake? I remember some discussions about tying the airbrake to one of the ailerons (and the related problems with that) and the addition of a second RX. Perhaps you could PM me these details if you don't wish to post it here. I have not eliminated the idea of flaperons although my second landing was actually quite slow. I'm still considering the Lemon 7-ch stabilizer plus RX, which would easily take care of this option.
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Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.
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Hi Hugh Wiedman yes, I tried flaps and airbrake at one time and it did not feel much different than airbrake and no flaps. I found that the airbrake is more effective than the flaperons in slowing the model down for landings. Also I did not see any pitch change with the airbrake deployed so give it a try. Curious to what you will see...
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Originally posted by PaulZ View PostHi Hugh Wiedman yes, I tried flaps and airbrake at one time and it did not feel much different than airbrake and no flaps. I found that the airbrake is more effective than the flaperons in slowing the model down for landings. Also I did not see any pitch change with the airbrake deployed so give it a try. Curious to what you will see...
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Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.
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Hugh Wiedman Got it out today for a couple more flights. Still working on that high alpha landing. This vid, it landed on the grass beside the runway (not on purpose but still good as this plane tends to roll forever on the smooth surface).
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Originally posted by xviper View PostHugh Wiedman Got it out today for a couple more flights. Still working on that high alpha landing. This vid, it landed on the grass beside the runway (not on purpose but still good as this plane tends to roll forever on the smooth surface).
Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.
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Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post
Great video, you fly that thing way to well for having only a few flights on it, I'm green with envy and quite jealous. Seems like you got the best of both worlds, taking off on asphalt and landing on grass. Love your field with the water on the one side, but don't think I could fly there because at some point I'd probably end up "in the drink".
(The "lake" is actually an outflow pond from the gas plant right next door. Up till last year, you wouldn't dare touch the water. It was so badly polluted, even the ducks and geese would not land there. They've cleaned it up now because they are trying to sell the property. Back then, when a person retrieved a plane, it had to be carefully cleaned and disinfected - kinda like what they're doing now with the Covid-19 thing.)
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As I mentioned yesterday in What did you Fly Today, I finally got out flying yesterday for the first time in forever and got 20 flights in, 5 of which were with the SU-30. That brings my total flights with it to a whopping 13, so I'm still tinkering around with setting her up. Used the air brake for the first time, so here's my thoughts on flaperons and the air brake, since I originally set it up with a 7 channel AS3X to use both. And keep in mind "I ain't no expert", this is my limited opinion only and have been flying EDF's for only 3 years, so others will far more skill than me should be listened to first:
1) The high gains definitely keep it quite stable and even with factors of 70-90 (which I initially thought were too high, but every else confirmed they were not), there is no oscillation at full power
2) Since I fly off of grass mainly, the flaperons were a great benefit in take-off. It gives me a nice smooth scale like lift off after about 150 feet or less. My flap deflection is very modest at 10 mm and only 15 mm for landing flaps to keep from over extending the servo travel when deploying flaps. I tried taking off with no flaps yesterday (and calm winds), and although it got off in an extra 50 feet, it seemed sluggish and awkward at getting off the deck because it could have used more runway speed.
3) Landing with flaps only was OK, like many of my other jets (F-4 and F-16) but up until yesterday, I had not tried the air brake (cause I got no guts). Yesterday I landed 1st with flaps only again, then with take-off flaps and the air brake, and the last 3 with full flaps and the air brake. Since this bird is very heavy, it's like accelerating a semi-truck but once moving, it is equally challenging to slow down it's considerable momentum. The air brake was the best solution for that. Frankly, I loved landing with full flaps (although admittedly only 15 mm, so not that much) and the air brake, which is definitely my preferred landing configuration.
If I flew off of asphalt only, I'd have to say flaps aren't necessary and landing with the air brake only is just fine. But flying off of grass, the benefits of take-off flaps are significant, and although landing with flaps only is OK, it sure is nice to have both on landing.Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.
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Thanks Hugh Wiedman ! A very good analysis and consistent with what I have observed. I fly off a paved runway so airbrake is all that is needed.
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After reading this entire thread I've noticed that it has changed from an Eflite Su-30 thread into more of an AR636 programming thread with a common goal in mind; to increase takeoff and landing performance. I fly from a grass field at 800' ASL and have no trouble flying any of the newer edf's from my field. I did have an early FW F-86 That would clog with grass clippings before it ever got to flying speed. Flying stabs and the ability to get the CG far enough aft for proper rotation would probably have helped, but que sera, sera. I never use flaps on takeoff with my FW Me-262, FW A-4, or FW MiG-21. I fly exclusively with HRB 5000 50C with no issue. I find that a CG toward the aft limit and full up elevator until rotation on takeoff and proper airspeed/alpha on approach solves most of the issues inherent to grass ops, Delta and semi-delta models such as the A-4 and MiG-21 really taught me those lessons well and greatly improved my takeoff and landing techniques. I have a BNF Eflite Su-30 on backorder and plan to fly it pretty much stock with HRB 6000 50C's full aft in the battery compartment. I will reprogram stick priority from 160% to 100% in order to take advantage of AS3X over full stick movement. At 160% AS3X is only actually stabilizing up to the first 20% of stick movement (or so) from center with none thereafter. Hard to visualize until seen on a graph. I've watched all the grass ops videos and have come to the conclusion that the Su-30 seems to perform better when flown more like a delta than a conventional platform. I'll ditch the grasscatcher on the nose gear, program max stabilator throws and I have no doubt she'll fly as good as she looks. In the past I've been guilty of over-engineering and over-complicating planes in order to mask deficiencies in my own skills when improving my skills and changing my techniques were really the answer to the problem. The key to rectifying a problem is to first recognize the problem.
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