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Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

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  • The shaft diameter is not why you have stator strikes either. Your not bending a 8mm x 75mm shaft in normal operation. They work in motors much longer fully supported . Your problem at highspeed is sad 5 dollar bearings and imbalanced rotors with unnecessary rotational mass. Tighten up your tolerances and balance bro.

    State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
    Advanced Power Drives

    MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

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    • Hallo Krokodil,
      Ist der T6-Madenschraubendreher in Anbetracht dessen, was Sie haben, in Amerika überhaupt eine große Sache? Ist das alles, was Sie finden konnten? Haben Sie den Easy 4.8kW Logged Pyro 650 in den USA gesehen und die aufgezeichneten Konstanten, die er hat, für Abonnenten wie Sie hier offen veröffentlicht? Keine Schmiddy-Mathematik erforderlich. Sie können es in jeden Taschenrechner eingeben.

      Motorkurven www.lambertus.info

      Das hier gefällt Ihnen, nicht wahr? 🙈🙉🙊​


      Der Castle Hydra ICE 200 HV v2, mit dem ich ihn betrieben habe, hat einen viel geringeren Spannungsabfall als Ihr YGE 120 LV, der bei Volllast viel heißer läuft! Es sollte für einen Hobby-Elektroniker keine Herausforderung sein, das zu verstehen.

      Mir wäre es lieber, wenn Sie Ihre aufgezeichneten Motorkonstanten veröffentlichen würden, damit wir sie direkt mit Ihren Freunden vergleichen können. Läuft er wirklich? Wie klingt er? Wie hoch ist der Leerlaufstrom?

      Danke,
      Hubert
      State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
      Advanced Power Drives

      MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

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      • One can rethink stator design but It doesn't mean a lot to the average hobbyist who is challenged enough just to rewind a motor. That's really what the speeders are all about. For them they want to improve the motor simply by rewinding it. See the thread kick outs? In the 12N10P and 12N14P the hybrid winding does that easier than anything else. That is why its the latest novel winding trick for these brushless hobby machine confirmed at all the technical schools including those in Munich Germany. . Nothing is any different there. Stator design is really a long leap for people who haven't completed yet the simple hybrid wind in 5 years.

        Think they will show up with a new cut then at 3 to 4 times the COTS motor cost.?

        NO!

        They wont because they already shop at hobby king. A rewind with the right wind is the simples thing a hobbyist can do to improve his motor. People have tested everything for 20 years but the Hybrid wind I've showed them the last 6.

        U can't test a wind or its real effectiveness until its wound! They can talk to the hand until then...

        That's fair and until then I definitely wont listen to the unfounded editorials about it. People at it understand the pros and cons of a distributed winding system verses a fractionally slotted concentrated coil winding system. Everything else about that is old and known umpteen times over.

        Another profile creation? I've see it change 3x's choose 1 and stick with it. They will all be disruptive and specifically vendor driven soon enough.....😂

        The Hybrid winding factor is 1.03 with the same motor so the highest EMF will be generated there 3% higher and now you want square current.

        Thats really "wunderful"


        The solution is simple, Wind the hybrid and test it!

        Thank you for your time and patience.
        Hubert
        State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
        Advanced Power Drives

        MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

        Comment


        • Xnova has btw. developed twice (24N8P) when it was still called XEra.
          The geometry then works out reasonably sensibly, but the detent (and thus the torque ripple) is still quite high.
          But definitely no comparison to the 12N4P.
          It only really makes sense as an inner runner.

          The expected superiority of the 24N8P due to the TOP winding factor over the convertible 12N motors could never be found by Xera itself in practice.
          That's why Xera / XNova has also switched to the 12N10P for all subsequent engines.
          After all, they have the widest hammer handles in the circus. (4.5mm on the 50xx)





          Last edited: Today at 19:27
          Ralph




          Hi Ralph
          How do you figure Xnova no longer makes the 8 pole machine and about tooth width being the only way a slotless 2 pole has none the Kw is.98

          The entire 40 series XNOVA line is 24N8P does a scorpion 4030 series claim 6900 watts at 92% eta? Check the Idle current of your 1000Kv 4030 HK

          NEW! 40XX Lightning xnova rc helicopter motors | XNOVA MOTORS

          2 of them in tandem certainly is 13.8Kw thats all ya 5050 does in reality with its 31% of waste at max loading.​

          None of your motors have the winding factor of Dr Gerlings 14 pole Flussperren. Iron is removed there. Just like tooth notching that actually removed iron from the tooth in the right place.

          You need more than just wide teeth to create a Wunder motor that's truly worlds above the rest. The engine that worlds above doesn't exist by the data. With wide open slots the power factor will be poorer than closed slots at lower rpms. There at low frequencies there is also no true advantage to Litz. It is just extra insulation in the slot.


          Where was the extra tension in the test where more amperage was needed to turn the prop with motors that have the same Tq?

          Its only so much usable geometry constrained to a series diameter. What's going on with the Q axis inductance? The unwound part?

          The winner in torque can certainly be determined by the axis inductances. Where are those numbers????


          State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
          Advanced Power Drives

          MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

          Comment


          • People go down the same rabbit hole with no common sense. If wide teeth are the only way to high torque explain the slot less machines with high winding factors and efficiencies with zero teeth that have dominated Fast electric boating. The most demanding in amperage and torque delivery ! To be able to think only one way is real bs!

            Proof positive.....


            Hubert
            State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
            Advanced Power Drives

            MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

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            • That said... lets see where this tunnel vision on both sides goes....

              Winding Engines | Page 2 | RC-Network.de

              There's still alot you can do yet with just a 12N10P wind to increase the emf amplitudes and save the magnets of a COTS machine.

              "winding engines"

              Click image for larger version  Name:	y-d 12n10p.png Views:	3 Size:	17.9 KB ID:	420101
              For lower resistance parallel these wye-delta stator halves. You have to wind it to test it.


              Hubert
              Attached Files
              State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
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              • Hi Ralph,
                Ich schätze, der Unterricht wird hier für eine Weile ausfallen, bis Sie tatsächlich laufen und den Wind testen. Wenn Sie mit Ihrem albernen Leitartikel in den deutschen sozialen Medien Daten produzieren, wird es viel glaubwürdiger sein. Jeder kann alles eingeben und der Geschwindigkeitsscan wird es glauben. Aber für die Wissenschaft bedeutet es absolut nichts ohne einen Hauch vergleichbarer Daten aus empirischer Forschung. Wie immer verschwenden kluge Leute viel Zeit mit Forumsdiskussionen ohne Daten. Genau das sehen sie, wenn Ihnen die PWM-Fähigkeit des Innenwiderstands eines YGE320 gezeigt wird. Sie leben absolut in einer totalen Fantasiewelt. Sie erzählen dem Bastler, es sei der beste Controller für Geschwindigkeitswettbewerbe. Das ist definitiv nicht wahr, wenn sich Durchsatzleistung in Geschwindigkeit umsetzt. Sie sind sogar bereit, mit YGE darüber zu streiten, wie ihr Wechselrichter funktioniert. Das ist vorsätzliche Ignoranz.
                State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                Advanced Power Drives

                MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

                Comment


                • "APD F3 120 hat einen Widerstand von 0,0011, wiegt 20 Gramm und erreicht über 100.000 U/min bei 14 Polzählungen

                  YGE 120 LV hat einen Widerstand von 0,002 Ohm, wiegt 85 Gramm und kann die Außenläufer nicht über 30.000 U/min drehen."
                  ~Clugh~​

                  Sie sind wirklich etwas Besonderes, denn Ihr Stromsystem ist insofern einzigartig, als es das einzige ist, das sich nicht an das Ohmsche Gesetz halten muss.



                  Die Einhornmotoren, die Sie bauen, sollten Ihnen auf jeden Fall das Postdoc-Hubertus-Stipendium von ABB einbringen



                  Later
                  Hubert
                  State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                  Advanced Power Drives

                  MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

                  Comment


                  • Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	43.5 KB ID:	420123

                    Yeah edit it out and be quiet because this is what you just posted trolling and didn't even realize that he showed you was a distributed wind that covers three teeth not a FSCW. Guess you realized that then edited it goof troop.
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	182.9 KB ID:	420124




                    Im on top of every post you make before and after the edits! What you should do at 69% is stop trolling and start listening to people that apparently know more than you.
                    State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                    Advanced Power Drives

                    MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

                    Comment


                    • Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	93.8 KB ID:	420127
                      Get a Clugh at a lap winding....
                      State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                      Advanced Power Drives

                      MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

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                      • Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	85.3 KB ID:	420129

                        Yes Ralph please be quiet and thank you by your post for proving my point. You depend on the calculator and don't even know how to drive it. Do you see the distributed winding factor with 20 poles?
                        OOPS!

                        I got ya! trying to troll somebody equipped with incorrect information!!!
                        State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                        Advanced Power Drives

                        MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

                        Comment


                        • See your bad influence? You have a hobbyist there Meier111 giving you a thumbs up and the post is as incorrect as it can be. You see that?????
                          Reaktionen:Meier111

                          This shows you what the average hobbyist you sell your motors to actually knows about motor design and windings. Very little.​
                          State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                          Advanced Power Drives

                          MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

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                          • Ich habe Chris eine vertrauliche E-Mail geschickt, die er nicht weitergeben darf. Er wird sehr bald auf dem GSM sein, um Sie auch dort zu korrigieren. Sie verlieren den Stellvertreterkrieg langsam aber sicher.
                            State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                            Advanced Power Drives

                            MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

                            Comment


                            • Well one shouldn't want to be done with him or Gerds sad site a proud man should connect the two motors run them and post the data. Me personally i jump to these affirmations metric they come up with. Meet the challenge and it exist no more. U do not need 10 years to understand that just typing isn't going to move anyone. You can start a million threads and type the same thing in them 100 times. Without head to head data it just annoying and that the truth.

                              Round and around in circles again its the same old bs. You should be eager to silence them if you have something. So that's where I go my own way coz I love the head to head empirical comparisons with HK motor wound by him that definitely evokes no fear. Ill knock the engine all day everyday because if you look at the data they are not all that. The efficiency is no where near that of the best in runners.

                              A real hobbyist that knows better wants the actual data if you really want their money. Anybody can type anything. The funny thing is Ralph YOU don't provide any data with 99% of your post either so u are really truly a pot calling a kettle black.

                              When you see the real data like the APD versus YGE's` IR is u break camp Ralph and divert by trolling another man thread versus a discussion with your friends on German social media about your overcite and poor choice in an inverter that wont deliver max power to their motor over the new things youve been shown.



                              Ill say it again SLOTLESS not IRONLESS motors make excellent torque and a high winding factor. Understand my English!!!Thick IRON is not the only way. Wide open slots also promote alot of skin and proximity losses in the wire. Plus it eats magnets. When you add so much magnet material to compensate you end up with a heavy rotor that robs power and make braking an acceleration more of a task. You end up losing all the love in practical work zones. Wide open slots also have a poorer power factor at low rpm because of all the leakage. There is no free meal just because you have wide teeth with open slots. They have several disadvantages as well.

                              Open slots aren't necessary because at least two major manufactures considered the best in the world in efficiency and power either have no teeth at all or def teeth with hammers to partially close the slot. The companies share numerous world records in serval disciplines of rc modeling. That's proof empirical! how they perform with out wide teeth or a concentrated wind. Both distributed overlapped windings. These companies dont follow the advice of an amateur because they are accomplished engineers. I think some these obstacle where discovere in Audio smiths low rpm test result at the prop where litz wire and open slots showed no significant advantage at low frequency empirical test.

                              ALSO
                              Not one post has considered the Q axis inductance of the odd cut yet. More advanced motor hobbyist such as myself know the importance of this critical piece of information left out. You dont do the modelers any justice at all like that. I'm especially not moved by the posting because the things that would mean something to me or real engineers are purposely left out.
                              State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                              Advanced Power Drives

                              MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

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                              • Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	235.2 KB ID:	420149​Er ist nicht kränker im Kopf als du oder das Forum, in dem Gerd bereits Plots gepostet hat, die zeigen, dass die Pyro tatsächlich mit deinem Wind an Effizienz verloren hat. Und sie staunen immer noch darüber. Das ist echt krank! Oder noch kränker, Gerd soll bei Elektronik sein und hat dir das Ohmsche Gesetz noch nicht erklärt oder wie es mit dem Innenwiderstand eines Wechselrichters zusammenhängt, während du seinen alten Arsch über seine Seite spuckst. Du streitest sogar mit der Manufaktur, die ich angerufen habe und Gerd hat Zero gemacht, wie stört Chris dich und du bist in seinem Thread, der dir den Mund führt?

                                Du musst auf dein dummes Selbst schauen, während du ihn verurteilst weil du deutlich schlechter bist



                                Christians größter Fehler war es, sich mit dir zu verbinden, denn du lügst definitiv zum Spaß! Das Schimpfwort hätte ihn 1000 Meilen weit wegtreiben sollen, aber ich glaube, er lernt langsam, dass es dein Verhalten ist, das er dort auf dem einseitigen Forum gelernt hat, zu überleben. Wo Experten das Ohmsche Gesetz nicht beachten. Es ist ein lustiger Ort voller Hater, fragst du mich. Wenn der Bastler etwas weiß, wird er sich vom Amateur Ralph Okon abwenden müssen. Ich schlage eine Pause von etwa 10 Jahren vor, wenn Sie sich für moderne Motorentechnik interessieren und tatsächlich Daten mögen, die eine Schreibmaschine begleiten
                                State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                                Advanced Power Drives

                                MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

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                                • Hi Hubert,
                                  He's the same as always, defending his old garbage and feeling great in front of his addicted buyers who he thinks are his friends. They just take the path of least resistance and obediently nod to his comments. They don't realize that they are only getting inferior materials and construction. That's your problem, unfortunately you don't recognize it.

                                  Happy Amps Christian

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Chxpress View Post
                                    Hi Hubert,
                                    He's the same as always, defending his old garbage and feeling great in front of his addicted buyers who he thinks are his friends. They just take the path of least resistance and obediently nod to his comments. They don't realize that they are only getting inferior materials and construction. That's your problem, unfortunately you don't recognize it.

                                    Happy Amps Christian


                                    Wen interessiert schon ein verdammter Lügner, der dir erzählt, sein mickriger HK-Stator sei in Ordnung und dann fröhlich ein Wunder mit breiten Zähnen vollbringt. Er tut, was du ihm sagst, direkt vor deinen Augen, und sie sind immer noch dumm! Und er auch. Gerd kennt nicht mal das Ohmsche Gesetz. Eine Clownshow. Das BS-Forum interessiert mich nicht.



                                    Danke!
                                    Hubert
                                    Attached Files
                                    State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                                    Advanced Power Drives

                                    MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

                                    Comment


                                    • The 8.4mm wide hammers dont mean a thing if they wider than the pole pitch they are overkill and saturate for more iron loss . What has been optimal is a 70% ratio but what is special about this if xnova and kontronics run wide teeth dual layers? They aren't optimal anyway. You need un even teeth and a single layer wind to optimize the machine for max torquw in the BLDC power system. You can see in the photo 5mm so only a 500um more per tooth side. Now what does the motor weigh now. The alternate tooth can be as wide as the pole pitch and the salient poles can be very thin. You want high resistance there anyway. The back iron also has to be adjusted. That is a flux barrier.


                                      Again what is the Direct and Quadrature inductances of the wunder motors....?????

                                      THAT WILL DETERMINE THE TORQUE CAPABILITY NOT A KEYBOARD IN GERMANY!!!!

                                      Click image for larger version  Name:	svc.png Views:	0 Size:	36.8 KB ID:	420234

                                      Verkaufen Sie den Überlegenheits-Blödsinn an Leute, die es nicht besser wissen!!! Ralph Okon alias Powercroco und alle seine Freunde brauchen ein Handbuch zum Motor- und Wechselrichterdesign. Er hängt immer noch an einem YGE 320 fest, der den höchsten Innenwiderstand seiner Klasse hat.

                                      Der eindeutige Beweis … sie sind mit einem höheren Intellekt überhaupt nicht so technisch überlegen.​

                                      Hubert
                                      Attached Files
                                      State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                                      Advanced Power Drives

                                      MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

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                                      • "Dein Lehrer aus den USA hat alles über dich gespeichert."
                                        ~CL~

                                        ​Id like to share here a few things about electric motors and inverters that I have been exposed to over the years. Hope there will be interest here (filedata/fetch?filedataid=91738) ​ Thank you. THE REAL 1BOHO.


                                        I Got em!

                                        Attached Files
                                        State-of-the-art PMSM/BLDC motor control solution for aerospace applications and robotics - Télega - Zubax Robotics
                                        Advanced Power Drives

                                        MOTORS FOR RC SURFACE VEHICLES - NEU RACING​​​

                                        Comment


                                        • Hi,
                                          What the miracle motor master completely overlooks are the tiny groove openings in his 8.5mm wide motor, which with a 70mm stator diameter is also an aerodynamic parachute. It has wide stator teeth and only accommodates ridiculous little wires in the slots. How many times have I written tooth width to groove width 50/50 and magnet width to distance width between the magnets 70/30. This means the highest performance can be achieved. Next I will calculate how high the voltage is when you calculate how high the proportion is that is responsible for the torque formation. You do this based on different speeds to see at which speeds the specific slot pole pair ratio can be used most effectively. 1/frequency....

                                          Happy Amps Christian

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