Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[DCORSAIR]

I will say it again, being nose heavy is not all the issue with this jet and the problems guys are having with the bouncy bouncy, its the timing of the flare, coming in to hot and letting this jet settle onto the runway without any elevator input until its too late is the issue, I have flown mine with stock gear on pavement well over 100 flights and nose heavy, you have to slow this jet down on your downwind leg, let those big flaps do their job, once on final and holding a little up elevator and throttle to keep the descent rate nice and slow and I do agree with you Phantom on this, find your spot where your going to land, if you fly nose heavy like I do, hold the flare until the speed bleeds off and it will settle nice and slow with no energy left to bounce and if you do get a bounce, it is more like a hop with no damage, I know that the CG farther back may help some but I tried CG aft and forward and it still needs the same approach and flare, I even do no power landings, not recommended of course, I think what most guys are skipping on the jet is, to go out and fly with full flaps down and gear down, practice it's slow flight, be surprised how slow it will fly, not being a know it all here but telling every hog pilot that comes along that its the CG problem is not really helping much to me, next time they go out it will be the same thing, landing on the nose gear is a no no, we all know that, flaring to late and not holding the flare is a no no, being extreme nose heavy could be a problem, Yes true but the stock gear holds up very well, even after well over 100 flights, not one part was replaced on mine, so my opinion is a little different on this jet I know but the CG thing is maybe a part of what guys are having trouble with it, the real problem is flying a heavy jet this size and not flying it to the runway, a forced landing with this one will get you a hog bounce and bacon.

[evensen007]

Agree with all the advice here. I know its been said hundreds of times in this thread (I've read it myself), but you HAVE to flare this jet properly at the end to distribute the weight properly to prevent the bounce. Given this was my first Jet I've ever flown OF COURSE I screwed that part up. I was so busy and awestruck with flying the jet for the first time that I didn't practice slow alpha flight and understand how the plane would react. I was so scared of the weight that I thought I had to grease it in at 100 mph. I should have played with and understood it's slow flight characteristics and stall habits. Yes, my CG is probably still a little bit fwd, but I think I could have easily overcome that with proper landing procedures for this jet. Looking at my video a bunch more times it's so obvious. I flew in way too fast and barely got any flare (and even then it was at the last possible second). I think RcJetDude and I are going to go out to the field tonight and maybe I'll have a redemption story, or maybe just another tale of woe. 😄

[Waconut]

I assembled my A-10 back in February. I have been going over it making sure I am ready for the upcoming maiden. I added the 5mm square carbon fiber rods to the fuse. All throws are set per the manual and I have the CG set at 86mm.
Is there anything else I need to do or watch out for before the maiden?
Later!!
Anthony

[crxmanpat]

Anthony, make sure the elevator "neutral" position is set about 5mm up from level as described in the manual. Some people miss this and wonder why their plane dives after takeoff. The full scale is like this too as it is to offset the thrust line of the engines.

[Waconut]

crxmanpat thanks for the tip I will double check the elevator neutral position.
My club has a well manicured 60x800 ft grass strip so I have plenty of room to get her back on the ground.

[Cheffie]

Anthony, make sure the elevator "neutral" position is set about 5mm up from level as described in the manual. Some people miss this and wonder why their plane dives after takeoff. The full scale is like this too as it is to offset the thrust line of the engines.

That could have been part of the problem also. I totally missed that myself. Just looked at the manual and it’s definitely not obvious. Once I got her up it took most of the flight to just trim it in so it wasn’t diving. I usually try the full flap slow flights to get used to the plane’s landing characteristics but since the trim took so long to get right, I didn’t have much time to fly it this way. Hopefully I’ll have better luck next time. I’ve been flying an E-Flite Viper quite a bit to get used to jet characteristics but like you guys said, flying a heavy plane like this one is a whole other animal.

[crxmanpat]

Yeah, it's at the end of the manual after the throw measurements. Most people stop at throws and miss the preflight precaution about setting the elevator neutral position.

[Gringotuerto]

Well..... Not good.

I had a bucking landing once and broke the nose off. It was fixable, and looks fine now. You can even get a new wing if you don't want to fix that main gear bay. Best wishes, we've all done this on various planes. On this one I am very mindful of the speed more than anything...I figure it isn't going to create new kinetic energy after I touch down and chop the throttle, so it only has the existing kinetic energy to work with, in its efforts to misbehave.

[themudduck]

I'd like to comment on what DCorsair wrote. All of the opinions here are useful, its very good to consider different perspectives. Since I am in the camp of "nose heavy = bad" on this plane, I'd like to comment that I agree 100% with DCorsair that its very important with the A10 to control the approach, let the model slow down, and flare so that the nose-gear doesn't touch first. That is the objective. Yes you can certainly do it in a nose-heavy plane but its more difficult. What I found is that in the nose heavy position, the plane is harder (takes longer) to slow down (with full flaps) and when you're in the final seconds before touchdown its not unusual to run out of elevator right when you need it. Now for me, that might be because I dialed back my elevator throw because I like flying smoothly. In any case, yes of course you can successfully land it nose-heavy but its harder and the consequences of a mistake are the bucking pogo-stick situation. We want to avoid that. So the point is, if you move the balance point back then it can be somewhat easier to do what we want... its easier to slow the plane down, its easier to hold the nose up at the end, which make it less likely to touch the nose gear down first. And it has the added benefit of being a little more responsive to the controls in the air, to me it feels less "heavy". So of course we can set up the plane like we want. I believe that the consensus is that most of us have enjoyed the results when the CG is moved back a bit.

[evensen007]

Well I know this isn't exactly a-10 related, but wanted to update on my flights tonight with Steve since I failed so hard last night. I NAILED it with the eflite f-4! I should have started with the F4; I don't know what the heck I was thinking jumping right into my a10. I got the approaches, speed, and flare down and it was so easy in this one! I will continue flying this jet until I feel very ready to take on the A-10 again.

I did have a slight mishap at the end. There were dudes out mowing the lawn on both ends of the runway when my timer ran out (because OF COURSE THAT WOULD HAPPEN). Steve went down to one end to tell the guy to clear out so I went around for another pass. As soon as I headed back up wind, the battery pack died on me! I didn't know what was happening at first because I've never had that happen. Luckily I got it in a position to kind of just harrier down into some tall grass. I busted the front gear motor but that's it thank God! This F4 is a great first jet for me! Steve also showed me how to set flight modes so my flaps work in tandem with my other throws and trims depending on where the flaps switch is. Here's a pic of Steve and his boy flying his A4 that he brought out. Steve (RCJetDude) rocks! He's going to help me fix the A10 when he gets some time. Great guy to have met just getting back into the hobby! Thanks you all again for your encouragement and advice!

[xviper]

Well I know this isn't exactly a-10 related, but wanted to update on my flights tonight with Steve since I failed so hard last night. I NAILED it with the eflite f-4! I should have started with the F4; I don't know what the heck I was thinking jumping right into my a10. I got the approaches, speed, and flare down and it was so easy in this one! I will continue flying this jet until I feel very ready to take on the A-10 again.

I did have a slight mishap at the end. There were dudes out mowing the lawn on both ends of the runway when my timer ran out (because OF COURSE THAT WOULD HAPPEN). Steve went down to one end to tell the guy to clear out so I went around for another pass. As soon as I headed back up wind, the battery pack died on me! I didn't know what was happening at first because I've never had that happen. Luckily I got it in a position to kind of just harrier down into some tall grass. I busted the front gear motor but that's it thank God! This F4 is a great first jet for me! Steve also showed me how to set flight modes so my flaps work in tandem with my other throws and trims depending on where the flaps switch is. Here's a pic of Steve and his boy flying his A4 that he brought out. Steve (RCJetDude) rocks! He's going to help me fix the A10 when he gets some time. Great guy to have met just getting back into the hobby! Thanks you all again for your encouragement and advice!

Interesting post of your experience. I got the Eflite F-4 a few months ago. I got the 80mm A-10 when it first came out. My experience with the F-4 is the same as yours. Since getting it, I've been flying it more than the A-10. Why? The A-10 has been repeatedly on the hobby table getting the nose gear fixed. In fact, I just finished fixing it again this evening. Somehow, with the F-4, even during flights where I'm thinking that with the cross winds and buffeting and gusts, I'm going to bury it in the ground, but it has always come in perfectly, greasing every landing. That Spektrum AS3X is quite amazing. Go figure. Oh, as another aside, my Eflite SU-30 .................... same as the F-4. I haven't given up on the A-10 - yet - but I doubt I will buy anymore repair parts for it.

[Cheffie]

I'd like to comment on what DCorsair wrote. All of the opinions here are useful, its very good to consider different perspectives. Since I am in the camp of "nose heavy = bad" on this plane, I'd like to comment that I agree 100% with DCorsair that its very important with the A10 to control the approach, let the model slow down, and flare so that the nose-gear doesn't touch first. That is the objective. Yes you can certainly do it in a nose-heavy plane but its more difficult. What I found is that in the nose heavy position, the plane is harder (takes longer) to slow down (with full flaps) and when you're in the final seconds before touchdown its not unusual to run out of elevator right when you need it. Now for me, that might be because I dialed back my elevator throw because I like flying smoothly. In any case, yes of course you can successfully land it nose-heavy but its harder and the consequences of a mistake are the bucking pogo-stick situation. We want to avoid that. So the point is, if you move the balance point back then it can be somewhat easier to do what we want... its easier to slow the plane down, its easier to hold the nose up at the end, which make it less likely to touch the nose gear down first. And it has the added benefit of being a little more responsive to the controls in the air, to me it feels less "heavy". So of course we can set up the plane like we want. I believe that the consensus is that most of us have enjoyed the results when the CG is moved back a bit.

I agree. I had the same experience with the Eflite Viper. When I had the CG in the position the manual suggested, I had a really hard time with it and would bounce it quite a bit. A friend suggested I move the battery back and since I did, I rarely bounce it. I just found it much easier to do the things I need to do to land it properly. I’m still learning though and I do mess it up from time to time. Long story short, I’m gonna move it back on this model also and see if I like it. I suspect I will.

[evensen007]

Interesting post of your experience. I got the Eflite F-4 a few months ago. I got the 80mm A-10 when it first came out. My experience with the F-4 is the same as yours. Since getting it, I've been flying it more than the A-10. Why? The A-10 has been repeatedly on the hobby table getting the nose gear fixed. In fact, I just finished fixing it again this evening. Somehow, with the F-4, even during flights where I'm thinking that with the cross winds and buffeting and gusts, I'm going to bury it in the ground, but it has always come in perfectly, greasing every landing. That Spektrum AS3X is quite amazing. Go figure. Oh, as another aside, my Eflite SU-30 .................... same as the F-4. I haven't given up on the A-10 - yet - but I doubt I will buy anymore repair parts for it.

Viper: Happy to hear that others that are way more experienced than me have also had this problem. I will shelve it for now and get a ton of flights in on the f-4. I took a look at the su-30 you were talking about and that thing looks AMAZING! I actually found a guy on RCGroups selling a brand new in box PNP for 300 bucks and he's local; I'm going to pick it from him! I have a 6ch Admiral receiver with stabilization sitting around; that should work just as well as what comes with the BnF version right? I can see how this 'collection' is going to be a problem. Luckily my wife is very understanding. hah I have the Mig-29 pre-ordered and I absolutely HAVE to have the F-14 at some point. Then there's the F-15, F-22, F4u Corsair, oh my... This is going to get bad. haha

[xviper]

Viper: Happy to hear that others that are way more experienced than me have also had this problem. I will shelve it for now and get a ton of flights in on the f-4. I took a look at the su-30 you were talking about and that thing looks AMAZING! I actually found a guy on RCGroups selling a brand new in box PNP for 300 bucks and he's local; I'm going to pick it from him! I have a 6ch Admiral receiver with stabilization sitting around; that should work just as well as what comes with the BnF version right? I can see how this 'collection' is going to be a problem. Luckily my wife is very understanding. hah I have the Mig-29 pre-ordered and I absolutely HAVE to have the F-14 at some point. Then there's the F-15, F-22, F4u Corsair, oh my... This is going to get bad. haha

The Admiral RX with stab will give you similar stabilization but it won't give you SAFE, not that it's really needed on the SU-30. Don't try to get the "recovery" mode to work on the Admiral. There have been quite a few reports that it either doesn't work or it makes the plane go nuts. I have the Lemon equivalent and I've long since given up on the recovery mode. It's just not worth it. If you can get that SU for $300.00, GRAB IT. However, know that it also flies very heavy and can seem "sluggish". It goes through a battery very quickly, too, when you're on the juice and being heavy, you need to keep the revs up, especially in turns.
By comparison to the A-10, the SU lands much more smoothly but the A-10 flies better as it doesn't show its weight nearly as much as the SU. Both can be big, heavy, scary models when you're new to them. Like the Eflite F-4, I haven't had a single bad moment landing the SU.

[evensen007]

The Admiral RX with stab will give you similar stabilization but it won't give you SAFE, not that it's really needed on the SU-30. Don't try to get the "recovery" mode to work on the Admiral. There have been quite a few reports that it either doesn't work or it makes the plane go nuts. I have the Lemon equivalent and I've long since given up on the recovery mode. It's just not worth it. If you can get that SU for $300.00, GRAB IT. However, know that it also flies very heavy and can seem "sluggish". It goes through a battery very quickly, too, when you're on the juice and being heavy, you need to keep the revs up, especially in turns.
By comparison to the A-10, the SU lands much more smoothly but the A-10 flies better as it doesn't show its weight nearly as much as the SU. Both can be big, heavy, scary models when you're new to them. Like the Eflite F-4, I haven't had a single bad moment landing the SU.

Gotcha. I never use the SAFE/recovery stuff. I will probably stick to the f-4 for a month or so, then maybe try the su-30. Maybe in 2-3 months I'll have the a-10 fixed and will be brave enough by then to give it another go.

[xviper]

Gotcha. I never use the SAFE/recovery stuff. I will probably stick to the f-4 for a month or so, then maybe try the su-30. Maybe in 2-3 months I'll have the a-10 fixed and will be brave enough by then to give it another go.

To be honest, the SU-30 ranks third in my book. The better one to have is the Freewing SU-35, even though its foam is more brittle and the retracts can be temperamental and could use a bit of reinforcement. That said, it's much lighter and flies with more authority, and can run on a 5000, 6s for a bit longer. It's also much cheaper. You can see it in action in the same YouTube video that was just released this morning by Motion RC, along with their new Mig29. I would put the Mig29 as second (for now) even without it being in the hands of private owners. It's expensive but it seems to give you a lot for the money. The SU-30 would be 3rd.

[evensen007]

To be honest, the SU-30 ranks third in my book. The better one to have is the Freewing SU-35, even though its foam is more brittle and the retracts can be temperamental and could use a bit of reinforcement. That said, it's much lighter and flies with more authority, and can run on a 5000, 6s for a bit longer. It's also much cheaper. You can see it in action in the same YouTube video that was just released this morning by Motion RC, along with their new Mig29. I would put the Mig29 as second (for now) even without it being in the hands of private owners. It's expensive but it seems to give you a lot for the money. The SU-30 would be 3rd.

Well, I'm just going off of the jets that I do have already (I'm counting the su30 I'm picking up from the local guy). I will probably wait a bit after I put together my mig-29 to fly it just because of the size and cost.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Finally got my A-10 assembled to check everything out before the 30 day warranty expired. I'm sure someone (or maybe many) have posted on the what a good starting point is for elevator compensation with 32 mm and 50 mm flap deflection, but couldn't find it in reviewing some 10,000 posts a couple of times. Any help would be appreciated.

I also changed the nose gear to the trailing link (I fly off grass mainly), attached RF chokes near the ESC (as recommended in the F-4 thread by GliderGuy who also lost a signal in his A-10 until he added them) and added a couple of carbon fiber tubes in the battery bay running the entire length up to the nose (as I think a few have recommended here). Also moved the circuit board and put it on the port side wall (doubt anyone else tried this and I'm sure there is a reason not to, but darned if I can think of one) to give more room for the RX and in case I need the space to move the batteries back (see photo). I installed an AR637T AS3X and satellite, first one I've tried after using nothing but the AR636 in everything I have. The only problem was getting 3 flight modes on the RX since I tie it to the flap channel. I like to use moderate gains for fly around, slightly more for take-off flaps and a ton for landing flaps, no heading hold or safe. In order to get all 3 modes, the servo must move a certain distance (almost the entire distance). It works at 100/0/-100 but that doesn't get the flap deflection I needed (too much take-off and landing flap deflection). It took a while to figure out the distances needed on the AR636, but the AR 637T is slightly different. Finally got it to work at -100/10/90 (anything else and you lose one of the flight modes). The AR 636 will do it at 60/-20/-60, but this new RX needs more travel before it switches FM's. Then I moved the control rods into a more inner hole on the servo to lessen the travel, and got the deflections I needed.

Did have a heck of a time calibrating the ESC's however. This is my first twin (other than the SU-30, but it has only 1 power lead and calibrated like a single EDF). I followed xviper method to calibrate them (thanks again for the info), but somehow I kept messing it up (not unusual for me to take something simple and screw it up). Got the ESC without the UBEC programmed correctly, but ended up with the other continuously beeping until I reduced the trim to -100. Well that would be a disaster, each EDF at a completely different speed. After plugging and unplugging each wire, and trying it many times (at one point I even thought maybe the ESC or EDF was faulty), it finally worked, but don't ask me what I did right, or wrong. Maybe I had the wrong throttle wire plugged in several times, or maybe I didn't wait long enough for the programming beeps, or waited too long, but whatever I finally did, I got it. So it's true, even a blind squirrel can find a nut occasionally! Probably should have maidened it before repainting, but the weather hasn't been great and I have no patience and want to get on with it.

I've removed everything I could including the EDF's now for final painting to the Arctic scheme and am just finishing up with some hand painted "primer" coats of clear gloss spar urethane so my trim tape is less likely to remove the base factory paint, so sometime early next week (after the urethane gets perfectly dry), I'll be working on the painting and redoing the 3D cockpit (I bought a 2nd cockpit to work on while painting the jet and using a stock cockpit). Can't wait, there's a lot of my favorite swear words I haven't used lately (since doing the F-18 Canadian) so they're primed and ready to come flowing out!

[crxmanpat]

I've been repainting my second F-14, and I decided to try this Krylon Craft Foam primer. It worked very well and prevented any of the original paint from peeling up. And let me tell you, I did a LOT of masking on this repaint. And I didn't have to go back and touch anything up because of paint peel. There is only one possible down side to this primer. You have to shake it VERY WELL for 2 minutes before using, and shake it again every 30 seconds or so during use. But when used properly, it works great!

[Gringotuerto]

... Did have a heck of a time calibrating the ESC's however ...

If you mean throttle range, I did this the same way you do on single engine, it was quick and easy. Turn on Tx, set throttle high, plug in both main batteries, the ESC will make a couple beeps, and then you move throttle low, and they make a long beep, and you are done.

The only "challenge" is pretty easy to overcome. The ESC's don't both come up at exactly the same time because you plug in one then the other. So the tones are out of sync. With just two it is not hard to hear, though. It gets a little confusing with a B-24, but with the A-10 I could easily hear each one. And if you leave one plugged in too long, it will enter programming mode instead of throttle calibration mode. But that takes about 5 seconds. You can easily plug in two EC5's within 1 second of each other, that gives you plenty of time to move the throttle low and calibrate the ESC's. I find this far simpler than trying to do them one at a time, but to each his own.