Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Hi,
I have a full set of 7X15E/P and 7X11E/P APC's for the drone plus another singular propeller of each for airplane projects on the way from APC direct. I'm still waiting for the torque cradle sensor, but I can get my hand on the I2C based hall trigger for the tach. I need to 3dp spacers to go between each EV cell so the Lexus EV buss bars and everything lines up nice and neat. A bench that truly takes accurate mechanical power measure is the most valuable tool I could ever have to know the real power and efficiency of a demigod motor .

[Clugh]

Anyone that wants to pm me privately to ask questions about anything they see here in motors and controls or a project they have feel free. We can always build something in private.

[Clugh]

This Clugh F3A Pyro 600 wound with 240C* wire is 1.08 mm in diameter Dr Okon and if they want to strap a 7 x 15 APC to it on 12s lipo they may but Ill be damned if tell a hobbyist on social media they will get any more than 5Kw usable out of it!

I have the propellers and can remanufacture them in carbon fiber if they think they can fly 500 km/h with it.

[Clugh]

Electromagnetic Properties of Carbon Fiber


👁 Reads: 2444

Carbon fiber has been praised for its incredible strength, and low density coupled with flexibility, so it is one of those materials that are highly sought by many industries. However, its electromagnetic properties are equally as impressive and carry substantial implications for many uses. In this article, we will be describing the electromagnetic properties of carbon fiber, analyzing what sets it apart from other materials and what can be expected of it in the future. The Basics of Carbon Fiber


Carbon fiber is a very thin, strong crystalline thread of carbon atoms bonded together. These fibers with diameters of 5-10 micrometers are packed and twisted together to form threads that can be used to fabricate a fabric or impregnate a polymer matrix and be used in composites. Thus, the carbon fiber products obtained – carbon fiber fabric, carbon fiber rods and other custom carbon fiber products – demonstrate high strength indicators and low density. The peculiarities of carbon fiber products are due to the nature of the carbon atom. Its crystalline structure is somewhat like graphite and the carbon atoms are orderly arrayed, which make it conductive and possessing other electromagnetic properties. Electromagnetic Properties of Carbon Fiber


Carbon fiber exhibits several key electromagnetic properties that make it valuable across various industries. Let's explore these properties in detail:

1. Electrical Conductivity

Carbon fiber can conduct electricity because electrons are able to reely within the aligned carbon molecules. This characteristic makes it very useful in absorbing the static electricity charges, reducing risks of damaging sensitive electronic parts. Moreover, due to its electrical conductivity carbon fiber is useful in passing as a shield against electromagnetic interference (EMI). Examples include prepreg carbon fiber tubes, carbon fiber rods and carbon fiber sheets which offer high EMI shielding used in electronic housings to enhance the performance of several electronic systems.

2. Thermal Conductivity

Carbon fiber also has the benefit of conducting heat energy, which makes it useful in situations where heat control is necessary. Carbon fiber rods and sheets are incorporated in electrical and electronics devices where they work as heat sinks that help to regulate and dispel heat. Prepreg carbon fiber tubes are used in aerospace parts, satellites, and other products that must effectively expel heat to prevent damage, thus, meeting the standards of the industry.

3. Dielectric Constant

The ability of an element to conduct electric charge in an electric field is measured by its dielectric constant. Since carbon fiber lacks a high dielectric constant, it cannot hold appreciable electrical charge. This property is very essential in cases where the applications involve handling of high frequency electromagnetic waves, since such materials which have low dielectric constant are ideal for use as they do not cause a lot of signal loss or interference. For example, carbon fiber in aerospace engineering in the construction of radomes that need to have low signal loss.

4. Magnetic Properties

This phrase explains the extent to which a material may continue to retain a magnetic field within it. Because carbon fiber is non-magnetic, it has a low magnetic permeability. This characteristic makes carbon fiber suitable for application in areas where there is need to minimize magnetic interferences. For example, in medical equipment like MRI machines, components made from non-magnetic materials like carbon fiber rods and prepreg carbon fiber tubes are used to minimize the magnetic interference and improve the imaging process.

5. Reflectivity and Absorption

The composite material and surface polish affect carbon fiber's absorption and reflectivity. This ability of carbon fiber to both transmit and absorb certain electromagnetic waves makes it an excellent material for radar absorption and stealth technology. Its composite design thus has a likelihood to regulate its ability to absorb electromagnetic radiation, which is beneficial to the aerospace and defense industries.

Electromagnetic Properties of Carbon Fiber | NitPro Composites


BUT HE CAN GO AHEAD WITH THE PINK PAINT AND THEY CAN LOVE HIM FOR IT.

I have to go wind for F3A...

Bye Bye...

[Clugh]

AND then......what composite craft modeler does not know carbon fiber blocks high frequency signals from their radio? The Dr doesn't have time to slide 12 pieces of CF sheet 2ooo -3ooo um thick cut in small strips in the motors to close the slot opening to see what happens but has time to paint bells and arts and craft pure aluminum wires pink that he know does nothing but add weight to the machines? Make it make sense....fellas. You will never see this PURE aluminum wound engine realized.....

In particular he has ruined the technical sections of the motor forums in America as far as I'm professionally concerned. He is not a professional in the field of electronics and that's fact.

We have a tendency to become idolaters of an individual because of a trophy they won years ago with 20 competitors present in the entire world versus ask them the right technical questions on a technically based motor forum. We will even go as far as to punish individuals that ask the hard questions VENDORS do not want to answer. Some MODS where bribed with a motor for a plane or helicopter, or simply site sponsor$hip!!!

Obviously the few modelers there on the German social media have fallen into this horrible trap.

Dr Okon does them a real disservice for ever flying any faster.

Thank you for your time and patience,
Hubert

[Clugh]

So why does Dr Okon keep lying to you all on open forums and through PM crying to the admins all over the hobby world to ban the information that last 10 years??


Not even AI has the answer!

[Clugh]

He and his friends see this and they have nothing to say.

Lets see what AI knows about semi magnetic slot wedges.

AI what is a semi magnetic slot wedge in BLDC machines?

"Magnetic slot wedges are an important component in brushless DC (BLDC) machines that can significantly impact the performance and efficiency of the motor. Semi-magnetic slot wedges, in particular, refer to slot wedges that contain a mixture of magnetic and non-magnetic materials.

The purpose of slot wedges in BLDC machines is to securely hold the windings in place within the stator slots. This is crucial to prevent the windings from moving or loosening due to the high rotational speeds and electromagnetic forces experienced during operation. Traditional non-magnetic slot wedges can fulfill this mechanical function, but they do not provide any magnetic benefits.

In contrast, semi-magnetic slot wedges contain a combination of magnetic and non-magnetic materials, typically a mixture of ferromagnetic particles (e.g. iron powder) and a non-magnetic binder (e.g. epoxy resin or fiberglass). The magnetic component of these wedges can provide several advantages:

1. Reduction in slot ripple and harmonics: The magnetic wedges help to reduce the slot ripple in the air gap flux density caused by the slotted stator core. This in turn reduces the associated eddy current losses in the rotor due to the interaction between the air gap flux harmonics and the rotor surface. 12
2. Improved efficiency: The magnetic wedges can decrease the magnetizing current required in the stator windings to produce the desired air gap flux, as more of the air gap flux is available for useful power production. This leads to reduced iron (core) losses and improved overall motor efficiency. 2
3. Enhanced starting performance: The use of semi-magnetic wedges has been shown to improve the starting torque and reduce the starting current of large induction motors. This is particularly beneficial for applications with high-inertia loads. 34
4. Reduced torque ripple: In synchronous motors, the semi-magnetic wedges can aid in the reduction of torque ripple, which is an important performance characteristic. 5

However, the introduction of magnetic materials in the slot wedges also presents some challenges. The magnetic wedges are generally more expensive than their non-magnetic counterparts, and their mechanical properties, such as flexibility and fatigue strength, can be inferior. Careful selection of the magnetic material composition and production process is necessary to balance the magnetic and mechanical requirements. 24

Additionally, the impact of the semi-magnetic wedges on the motor's performance characteristics, such as starting torque, efficiency, and core losses, can vary depending on factors like the relative permeability of the wedge material, the slot/pole combination, and the overall motor design. Detailed analysis using both analytical and finite element methods is often required to fully understand the effects of the semi-magnetic wedges on the motor's performance. 34

In summary, semi-magnetic slot wedges in BLDC machines can provide significant benefits in terms of improved efficiency, starting performance, and reduced torque ripple. However, the design and selection of these wedges require careful consideration to balance the magnetic and mechanical properties and optimize the overall motor performance."

~AI~

[Clugh]

Ist Ihnen in Deutschland klar, dass die Hybridwicklung auch eine Art dualer Dreiphasenwicklung ist, die von einem Wechselrichter gespeist wird? Sie bewirkt dasselbe wie zwei um 30 Grad gegeneinander versetzte Motoren, ist aber dual dreiphasig. Sie haben eine dreiphasige Sternschaltung, die in Reihe mit einer anderen dreiphasigen Maschine verbunden ist, die wiederum eine Dreieckschaltung bildet. Wie sogar KI weiß, reduziert das die Drehmomentwelligkeit, senkt die Stromstärke und verbessert die Maschine deutlich. Warum also erzählt jemand Bastlern, die einzige verwendbare Wicklung sei eine zweilagige Sternschaltung? Warum sollte das jemand glauben? Dr. Okon hält seine Piloten von den wenigen Möglichkeiten fern, die sie haben, um einen Motor zu verbessern, der tatsächlich versagt. Das kann niemand leugnen. Sie sind alles andere als bombensicher.

Wenn er eine Drehbank hat, erscheint er mir etwas faul. Warum sollte er nicht den Lagersitz am anderen Ende ansenken, um ein weiteres Lager unterzubringen und dann auf Keramikhybriden umsteigen? Das bietet zusätzliche Tragfähigkeit zu einem niedrigen Preis. Wenn er sieht, dass die Rotoren versagen, warum baut er dann keine leistungsstärkere Maschine? Ist Dr. Okons aktuelle 5050-Parallel-Y-Wicklung der Inbegriff deutscher Handabstimmung? Wenn die Rotoren versagen, warum sollte ein Tuner dann nicht nach Lösungen wie verlustarmen halbmagnetischen Keilnuten suchen? Das ist eine kostengünstige Lösung, die die Steigung auf der rechten Seite ihrer Maxima reduziert. Er hat sein 3225-Leistungsdiagramm für 2023 noch nicht ausgearbeitet.

[Clugh]

Electric Motors Winding and Repair - HeliFreak

Übrigens, Dr., vielleicht ist Ihnen ein Modellbauer aufgefallen, der nach Bert gesucht hat. Das lag nur daran, dass ich es versäumt hatte, auf eine verpasste E-Mail zu antworten. Ich habe inzwischen geantwortet und die R. Green-Motoren liegen hier bei mir



Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Du suchst nicht danach. Es trifft dich, wenn du es mit DTP am wenigsten erwartest. Dann bringe ich Vacoflux X1-Kerne ein.

COTS A 10 +10 DD ist 320Kv

[Clugh]

"This is a cheap Chinese skateboard motor (6374 rotor).
I want to power it with an 11 x 22 x 3 propeller to get my plane to 350-400 km/h. My plane will weigh about 7.5-8 kg. It is built in the "flying wing" design. 12S battery.The test winding 6+5YY gave 350 kv

p.s.
With the stock Sunnysky 4130 380 motor and a 15x15" propeller, I reached 290 km/h (180 mph) and a current of about 100 A. With an 11x22x3" propeller, the current was 130 A and the speed was 295 km/h (185 mph), but the engine started to smoke and went out."

~Sokil~

Ich finde es genial, dass der russische Tüftler nichts über seine 5340 verrät. Bekannt ist, dass er mit einer handelsüblichen 4130 fast 300 km/h schnell flog.

Ich wette, du bist WEG.

Du willst sowieso nur trollen lol!!! es ist keine Kobra !!

[Clugh]

what is the SHE or sub harmonic elimination commutation scheme AI?


"The SHE or selective harmonic elimination (SHE) commutation scheme is a technique used primarily in multilevel inverters to reduce the harmonic content in the output waveform. Key points:

• Multilevel inverters generate an AC output by summing up successive square waves with different duty cycles and phases. This creates unwanted harmonic content that needs to be addressed.
• SHE techniques involve two main approaches to suppress these unwanted harmonics:

1. Chopping or gating the drive signals to the inverter stages to target elimination of specific harmonic frequencies. 23
2. Adjusting the turn-on times and durations of the driving signals in the inverter stages to modify the harmonic content. This is referred to as SHE-PWM. 145

• These techniques rely on real-time sensing of the output waveform and a control algorithm that can optimize the timing and gating of the inverter drive signals. Optimization methods like genetic algorithms and particle swarm optimization are often used. 1
• Combining these SHE techniques with a secondary filter stage can produce a very clean sinusoidal output by suppressing higher order harmonics that are not eliminated by the SHE control. 1

In summary, the SHE commutation scheme is a powerful approach to selectively eliminate specific harmonics in the output of multilevel inverters, enabling a high-quality sine wave output to be achieved."

~AI~

She put some hyperlink references out there for the mouse-click

Enjoy them.🖕

BYE BYE
Hubert

[Clugh]

The other thing you need to consider is what a full rotating bell & half stator winding's BEMF looks like. I'll leave that a mystery to you in 2025 because I told you about 4 years ago and posted a photo of the waveform. I think you will find that if the six step drives sees it then it will commutate it with less ripple because the BEMF signal is more compatible . The sophistication of the flight card gives you full flexibility of each inverter independently. If you switch the firing arrangement on one of the inverters correctly you can also lose common mode voltage even when you only use on battery to power both inverters..

I suppose you could also cascade the inverters and also configure them correctly thru FW or FC adjustments for a sub harmonic elimination (S.H.E) commutation scheme.

I'm going to have to come off some more coin. I want a higher resolution a 4 channel scope. And then a matlab compatible DMM is over a "band".... ($1000,00)


A "Band" is for a rubber band over a 1000 dollar stack....

I have to go. I have enough motors to get outta here before Friday and one for today. I took PTO today to get some rest on top of it.

TTYL
Hubert

[Clugh]

Hi,

Dr Okon told the motor winding forum in Germany that a star - delta serially connected hybrid winding set I can offer were not applicable for speed planes. He never offered an iota of data a photo of the winding or a video of it running. What do you have to believe.? I've offered you all of that!!! The winding was designed by the IEEE for traction application but lets see what Artificial Intelligence has to say about it.


AI
what is a star delta hybrid serial winding set for a BLDC motor?

"The Star-Delta Hybrid Winding Configuration for BLDC Motors

A Star-Delta Hybrid winding configuration is an alternative winding arrangement for BLDC (Brushless DC) motors that combines the advantages of both the Star (Y) and Delta (Δ) configurations.

In this hybrid configuration, the BLDC motor windings are first connected in a Star configuration and then in a Delta configuration in series. This provides the following key benefits:

1. Improved Low-Speed Torque: The initial Star connection allows for higher torque at low speeds, similar to a pure Star configuration. This is advantageous for applications requiring high starting torque.
2. Enhanced High-Speed Performance: The subsequent Delta connection in series boosts the high-speed performance and power output of the motor, similar to a pure Delta configuration.
3. Wider Speed Range: By combining the strengths of both configurations, the hybrid winding can provide a wider usable speed range compared to using just a Star or Delta winding alone.
4. Increased Efficiency: The hybrid configuration can achieve higher overall efficiency across the motor's operating range by optimizing the torque-speed characteristics.

The Star-Delta Hybrid winding is particularly useful in applications that require both high starting torque and high-speed operation, such as electric vehicles, industrial automation, and robotics. The flexibility provided by this configuration makes it a viable alternative to the traditional Star and Delta windings in BLDC motor design.

It's important to note that the specific winding implementation and control strategy for the Star-Delta Hybrid configuration may vary depending on the motor and application requirements. Careful design and programming of the motor controller are necessary to fully realize the benefits of this winding arrangement."

~AI~

How difficult is DTP on a 50 series scorpion? This difficult. LOL! Dl or SL you get favorable benefits to each machine
An inverter goes to each half of the stator 180 degrees opposed. 6 phases means at least 4 are active at all time versus 2 in the traditional BLDC scheme.

In BLAC commutation all six are active of course in each style more power is always delivered to your motor and more efficiently than the pink panther's. SINGLE 3 phase machine


If you can't understand that then fly slow and fun with the pink classic cars.

[Clugh]

"A DTP (dual three-phase) configuration increases power density in electric motors by enhancing the utilization of the motor's magnetic and thermal capabilities. By splitting a standard three-phase motor into two sets of three-phase windings, DTP motors can deliver more power in a smaller physical volume.

Lower current per phase. With more independent phases, the total power is distributed across more windings. For the same total power output, the current flowing through each individual phase is lower. This reduces copper losses (I² R) and improves overall efficiency, resulting in less wasted energy and less heat generation."

~AI~

I assume crocoworld has access to AI, but Dr Okon, told the German hobbyist the winding technology was not applicable for a speed plane

It is ashamed that they are totally dependent on that incorrect information.

True intelligence would venture out into the real world and discover these things on their own. Maybe then they can live with the scientifically accepted explanations equipped with a full list of official scientific reference.

[Clugh]

The increased power density of a dual three-phase (DTP) motor is achieved by more effectively using the motor's internal components compared to a traditional single three-phase design. By splitting the power across more independent phases, the motor can increase its power output while simultaneously reducing stress on its thermal and magnetic systems. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] How DTP improves magnetic and thermal performance.

• Improved thermal management: With more independent phases, the total motor current is divided into smaller portions for each phase. This results in lower current flowing through each individual winding. Since copper losses (resistive heating) are proportional to the square of the current (I² R), even a small reduction in current per phase leads to a significant reduction in heat generated by the windings. Better thermal management prevents localized
overheating, increases overall system lifespan, and allows the motor to be run at higher power levels.

• Reduced torque ripple: A DTP motor, especially with a 30-degree phase shift between the two winding sets, produces a smoother magnetic flux interaction compared to a standard three-phase motor. A smoother torque output results in less vibration and acoustic noise.

• Higher utilization of magnetic capabilities: The ability to inject specific harmonic currents, such as the fifth and seventh, gives a DTP system more control over the magnetic field. This technique can increase the motor's average torque and power output without increasing the phase current.

• Lower system losses: The lower current per phase directly translates to reduced copper losses, which increases efficiency and allows for a higher power output for the same amount of heat generated. This is a fundamental advantage of spreading the power load over more phases. [2, 3, 4, 6, 7]
Benefits of increased power density

• Compact design: The DTP configuration allows for higher torque and power density, meaning more power can be generated from a smaller, lighter motor. In high-power applications like electric vehicles and aircraft propulsion, this reduces the overall weight and volume of the vehicle.

• Enhanced fault tolerance: The independent nature of the phases means that the motor can continue to operate, albeit at a reduced capacity, even if one phase or a power inverter fails. The remaining healthy phases can compensate for the fault, ensuring system resilience in critical applications.

• Cost and material savings: The increased efficiency and lower thermal demands of a DTP motor can allow for a redesign using fewer or smaller components. For example, a DTP design can be used to meet performance specifications with a reduced active axial length (and therefore less copper), which lowers both manufacturing costs and material usage. [3, 8, 9, 10, 11]

[1] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel8/878...9/10971876.pdf
[2] https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/id/e...of%20Dual%20Th ree-Phase%20PMSM%20Drive%20with%20Fifth%20and%20Sevent h%20Current%20Harmonics%20Injection-Author-submitted%20manuscript.pdf
[3] https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wi.../joe.2018.8178
[4] https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...14914723001861
[5] https://webthesis.biblio.polito.it/30903/1/tesi.pdf
[6] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12485079/
[7] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel8/107...9/10718138.pdf
[8] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...bl10_356126198
[9] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9490049/
[10] https://www.mdpi.com/2032-6653/13/3/51
[11] https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/10/5/1608

~AI~

[Clugh]

Who's first? and wants a 6 phase BLDC commissioned in his or her high performance e traction model versus and old pink gas guzzling Cadillac that is all for show.

Just ask AI

[Clugh]

I used Ask Ai to ask what is dual 3 phase or DTP is for a PMDC or BLDC machine. Any pilot can type in his AI search engine. It is much brighter than the pink crocodile.

Look what it post for the answer.


The term "dual 3-phase" (DTP) in the context of Permanent Magnet Direct Current (PMDC) motors refers to a specific winding configuration that offers several advantages over traditional single 3-phase systems. While PMDC motors are inherently DC machines, the concept of "dual 3-phase" typically applies to Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motors (PMSMs) or Brushless DC (BLDC) motors, which are AC machines often controlled to emulate DC motor characteristics for certain applications [1] [2]..

In a dual 3-phase system, the motor stator is wound with two sets of three-phase windings, which are electrically isolated and often spatially shifted by a certain angle, commonly 30 electrical degrees [3]. This configuration effectively creates a 6-phase system from two independent 3-phase sets. The primary motivations for employing a DTP configuration include enhanced fault tolerance, reduced torque ripple, and increased power density [4] [5].

Fault Tolerance: If one of the three-phase winding sets fails, the motor can continue to operate, albeit at a reduced capacity, using the remaining healthy set of windings [4]. This is a significant advantage in critical applications where continuous operation is paramount.

Reduced Torque Ripple: By having two sets of windings, the harmonic content in the magnetomotive force (MMF) can be significantly reduced. The phase shift between the two sets helps to cancel out certain harmonics, leading to a smoother torque output and reduced vibrations [3][5]. This is particularly beneficial in applications requiring high precision and quiet operation.

Increased Power Density: The DTP configuration allows for a higher utilization of the motor's magnetic and thermal capabilities. With more independent phases, the current per phase can be lower for the same total power, potentially reducing copper losses and improving efficiency [4].

Ich bin sicher, Dr. Okons Entschuldigung gegenüber seinen Piloten für die Nichtverwendung ist, dass es nicht funktioniert, oder?

Dual 3-phase configurations, often implemented in multi-phase motor drives, find applications in high-power and high-reliability systems where the benefits of increased power density, improved efficiency, and enhanced fault tolerance are paramount. These systems are particularly prevalent in:

• Vehicle Traction Inverters: Modern electric vehicles and hybrid electric vehicles increasingly utilize multi-phase motor drives, including dual 3-phase configurations, to achieve higher power output from a given motor size, improve efficiency, and ensure continued operation even if one phase fails. This is crucial for safety and performance in automotive applications [2] [3].

AI says its applicable for MODERN electric vehicles so maybe his pink Cadillac's are not applicable .

[Clugh]

Futaba SBS-01TAS: Luftgeschwindigkeitssensor

Lust auf ein echtes Erlebnis? Kauf dir einen. Er schafft bis zu 600 km/h. Wenn du das überschreitest, bist du bereit für den BSC. Piloten sollten sich einen kaufen, um die Geschwindigkeit per Telemetrie messen zu können. Das GPS-Modul könnte auch funktionieren. Ich bin mir nicht sicher. So kannst du all die tollen Beiträge über Speed-Flugzeuge von Megatron und Starscream bestätigen. Dann können die Autobots loslegen mit der Realität.



REICHWEITE: Ca. 15 km/h – 600 km/h

[Clugh]

It is simply unbelievable how little theorists can have about practice!

Dr Okon.

Thank you,
Hubert