Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Sie hören nicht auf die Doktoranden der Ingenieurwissenschaften aus Ihrem Land, daher spielt es keine Rolle, woher die richtigen Informationen kommen. Sie nehmen nichts davon auf.

[Clugh]

Have a good day and enjoy your private emails and your country Ralph. I do not have to say anything because the ANOTHER WC winder in your country gives a super solid reply.


Hubert

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

MAYLASIANIn your country huh? Lets see the reply to the post from your country because it pretty much would be mine Ralph. Those "Malaysian" bearings are nothing but a cheap standard steel NMBs!!! and you had just thrown the AOS under the bus for having a titanium shaft. The E3 has a hardened steel shaft BTW.

[Clugh]

Ich freue mich sehr, dass Ralph die Flügelpläne für sein Holzflugzeug geteilt hat. Das ist auch schön und für ein Holzflugzeug sehr schnell
Und ja, Ralph, ich werde auch deine Fotos machen, weil du hier jeden Tag so viel von mir nimmst und ich lasse die Informationen auf die gleiche Weise ständig zu dir fließen.


Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Ich weiß, dass du das nicht für mich tun wirst, Ralph, obwohl du von mir viele wertvolle Informationen zu unserem Wrapping-Programm erhalten wirst. Bitte Wladimir, einen Thread über den Bau seiner Holzrakete zu erstellen. Wir würden keine genauen Zahlen verlangen, nur Fotos von seinem Prozess. Es wäre schön zu zeigen, wie er sie fertiggestellt und lackiert hat. Ich bin sicher, viele Amerikaner würden das gerne sehen. Wenn einer der Besucher ihm diese Nachricht weiterleiten würde, wäre ich sehr dankbar. Vielleicht möchten einige hier eine bauen und den Speedflying-Sport ausprobieren. Es wird Ralph nicht schaden, da er keinen Motor kaufen muss, und ich kann ihm dazu keine Ratschläge geben.


Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

That also means basic specifications like current value and voltage really don't mean sht between two different inverters. The better inverter will give you more thrust even at the same power levels. That why APD firmware is proprietary and you can hack into a lower cost Chinese "mystery". with Audino JTAG adapters.

You out here making inverter decisions based on a cheap price...so just make sure you know what you are doing if you truly want to fly faster....High end inverters are totally agnostic and set timing and pwm variably through the speed range as they see fit.

You need to think about that if you are an "expert"

DZ had no problem hitting 600Km/h with APD and Dr Okon's motor. first flight!!!! The Dr is mad the APD wont burn itself up trying to get more out of a motor that it does not have!!!! The APD is a 34KW drive the motor doesn't make but 14 usable people...do the math.

[Clugh]

I not an expert, but I guess all experts better realize that a change in the inverter brand will also change the propellers recorded thrust values with the same motor. That means just because some guy in Germany produced a certain thrust value with a specific motor and inverter that does not mean you will produce that thrust with the same prop and motor in America. even if the environmental match if you are not running the same inverter anyway.....

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

Here is the Emaxx EIII series.

I forgot to post she was $25.99 from My FPV. Thrust comparisons on the same exact prop and environmental variables has to have some value if it indeed varies between motors of the same Kv and size after repeated test that yield similar thrust results over and over again. It may not give any insight to which motor is more efficient but empirically it is still telling you SOMETHING is different between the two machines and of course thrust is what moves the planes through the air. I'd think a speed pilot would always want the more thrust especially if the power plants weigh the same thing and the electrical efficiency is similar.

How it correlates to efficiency? I wont debate but id have to wrap my mind around a better efficiency number and what it meant if it didn't actually produce more product at the mechanical output or lower the consumption on the electrical side. There are a multitude of physics involved that you would have to examine finitely to get a better understanding of why one motor make more thrust than the other. Things like the rotors moment of inertia and how fast it accelerates to a terminal velocity. Peak eta is just one value at one point its 2 dimensional. For a full view you need a 3D efficiency map through the entire speed range of the machine.

To measure the high speed acceleration and deceleration of a bell like these really well I think you should look for some type of logic circuit versus something microprocessor based. That's just my opinion. The MCU chipset and scan speed in high level coding may place some limits on what you can achieve at high speed measurement. I'm not an expert high or low level coder but I have a background in digital logic. To me without even thinking about fancy coding tricks or some incredibly fast MCU a logic based acquisition would give you the kind of processing speed where to acquire more accurate and resolute data if that type of data is of interest to you.

Again that is just my opinion.

[Clugh]

I'm sorry but I like Wladimir 's work on the beautiful wooden plane better. Watch this thing fly. Its a very impressive build and performance display out of the wood model.

The only thing he got wrong for more speed was the motor choice and engine tuners antiquated unsecured windings and assembly with mid grade components.

Alles, was sie braucht, ist ein Hybrid-Pyro oder Xnova, um richtig nass zu werden. Die Tuner, die er in Deutschland anwirbt, sagen, dass die Wicklung zu schwierig ist, um sie richtig durchzuführen!

Enjoy your day. Looks like its going to be a beautiful one here in NC.

Later gator
Hubert

[Clugh]

Here is the Emaxx EIII series.

[Clugh]

I just ordered the AOS supernona and the EMAXX EIII from get FPV.com but I should have shopped around for the AOS because as soon as I purchased it for 40 dollars I found it for 30.

AOS Supernova 2807 1400KV - 7" FPV Motor - MyFPV


One nice thing about it is it comes standard with NSK bearings. I prefer them over a NMB.

[Clugh]

So you will try to lighten the Sequre and make it "APD" like.

Ok good luck....
but when you remove the extra heat sink you will lower the power handling of the inverter. The APD does it's numbers without a heat sink as long as it sees 30 m/s airflow to the FETS. That's something to consider about the most power dense drive on the market. The Sequre PCB doesn't have 8 layers of copper that's why it uses buss bars. The cheap way to try to carry more current Ralph....

U would not do it this way for highest power density. Flat wide copper planes are better. Peters telemetry project with the Sequre is really cool but I don't think much about the inverters weigh or current handling performance outside of that. The telemetry dongle he is building will work with almost any inverter if it works with the sequre.



Later
Hubert

[Clugh]

Here is the dual 3 phase 12N10/14P wiring can you see it? It is going to make more power with less ac losses in the rotor and PM. The rotor is going to totally quiet down with less vibration and run cooler.

You need to listen. I'm trying to help you. Do you see the definitive boost in the 5th and 7th torque producing harmonics and the full elimination of the 1st that eats the rotor? This semi 6 phase technology is industry proven to work on a plethora of topologies and motor types. It has to especially on a six step drive because it is always 4 phases active at any given time during commutation. In the convention it is only 2. It has much more current headroom. It is going to be stiffer in its power delivery then....

The waveform that each inverter sees on a half of the stator is also more trapezoidal as proved by the BLDC harmonics it boost and the one it attenuates. It is not a sinus machine quite clearly !! or sinus inverter that runs it . 6 steps BL HELI is a trap!!! You can confirm this by driving the motors with a prime mover at applicable speeds and measuring the half stator windings generated BEMF on a scope and you will see.

The other result is less commutation ripple.

Thank you for your time and patience,
Hubert

[Clugh]

I beta tested the 20S 1200.00 HV pro APD PROTOTYPE at Daimler and showed Dr Okon the micro 6 s lipo 40 amp/100 peak amp F3 40 APD☝ that weighs 3/10ths of a gram 6 years ago. Two in a dual 3 phase topology would support 200 amp peaks have virtually no stress on the PM and still weigh less than a gram! This inverter can run a 14 pole over 100,000 rpm or till it explodes. So you can add 6/10ths gram to what the AOS Supernova weighs for the complete dual 3 phase power system. The weight less wire. is going to be around 50 grams tops....

No one in the world on a hobby forum but the owners AJ and Tony held the APD pro inverter before me. It didn't even have silk-screening or a brand badge yet when I showed it to the Dr and his friendly forums up and close for the first time. The Dr and his friends have been behind for years in inverter technology and they didn't want a thing to do with me or this equipment that I tried to show them 6 years ago.

By the time they get on it it will be obsolete!!!!

A Sequre ...ru serious???


TTYBL
Hubert

[Clugh]

ORRRR You can also just buy a performance test stand for small drone motors already built.....

[Clugh]

The Emaxx and AOS Supernova 2807's are on the way. You don't need a calculator to find out which motor is most efficient. All you need is a tachometer and real torque measure. A large strong metal gear servo can deliver the data much better than any prop calculator on a computer. They have a holding torque based on amperage. All you need is a few weights to calibrate it and correlate holding torque to amperage. If you mount a drone motor on axis with the servos spindle the amperage to hold it still while driving a prop is you torque rating. Once you have that and the rpm you know the mechanical power. . A watt meter on the front end tells you the electrical power. Its really simple the reactionary torque measure will be immune to rpm limits. When measuring the motor I really care less about the Thrust actually because a lot of that is determined by the propeller and it's design. All 7x10's do not have to have the same blade design. Propeller pitch is just one thing to consider..

After you take a few amperage readings with a few different said calibrated weights on a 1 ft lever arm mounted to the servo you can find the holding torque per amp function through regression. One you do that you will know approximately every y for the x .

The real efficiency measure is the mechanical out divided by the electrical in. An eagle tree and a few sensors can capture and accurately log all the data on a kitchen top.

If you drop the function in excel you can also plot it that way but the eagle tree is a raw csv. dump. I already have an Artemus open logger so ill probably just try to use that. the Eagle tree is going to be simpler to use.

EagleTree Heavy Duty E-Logger V4 with Wire Leads, 80 Volts, 150 Amps

[Clugh]

In direct drive they would also work well on the normal q40 diesel style nitromethane pylon planes you'd all be familiar with. The drone motors do in fact have higher power to weigh ratios than most bldc motors slated for heli use. The drone motors are made light on purpose. The drone industry drives all the trends currently in motor and inverter development. Thats a fact and all the big dogs like Thiokol and General Dynamis are in.

So that's real rocket science baby.... The winding Dr in Germany and his unpublished non peer reviewed powerditto with the black and gold heli motors built with standard materials simply doesn't run the show!