Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Allerdings könnte jemand meinen von Steve konstruierten maschinengewickelten Automotor, der mit einem Maxon-Getriebe ähnliche Werte wie der 1539 erreicht, nehmen und Dr. Okon und seinen acht Piloten das Leben schwer machen. Der Unterschied liegt im Durchmesser von 45 mm. Sie benötigen einen Rumpf im Typhoon- oder Big Monster-Stil, um robuste Batterien und einen Wechselrichter mit ausreichender Elektrolytkapazität unterzubringen.

Mehr Speed....

YT
Hubert

[Clugh]

Lassen Sie sich von Dr. Okon nicht entmutigen, nur weil er Probleme mit der Verdrahtungsplanung hat. Sie können eine vierlagige Hybridmaschine wickeln, indem Sie mit einem Dreieck wie diesem beginnen und die Knoten gleichmäßig verteilen. Von dort aus verschieben Sie einen Schlitz, wickeln direkt darüber eine Sternmaschine und verbinden die Enden mit den Knoten. Ob axial oder radial, der Spulenstapel spielt keine Rolle; die Zwischenphasen dämpfen die Wechselstromverluste, die bei einer herkömmlichen parallelen bifilaren Wicklung auftreten würden.

[Clugh]

1/2 turn 1539 diameter 40mm 90,000 RPM! 8s lipo
Bei 68% Eta und Temperaturen über 200 °C gibt es für 14 kW viel zu lernen

[Clugh]

He has never seen a 1530-1539 motor in a plane

[Clugh]

Only a 1524 3/4 turn delta on the 6.7:1 Maxon gearbox and a high pitched GM. I see you looking Okon.

💔
Hubert

[Clugh]

Ihnen ist offensichtlich bewusst, dass Sie nichts auf den Laminierungen haben.

Ich dachte, High-End-Rennmotoren hätten das Beste von allem?


Hubert

[Clugh]

Classification of Insulating Coating for Electrical Steel
C0	An insulation consisting of the natural oxide film formed during mill processing. This thin coating will withstand normal annealing temperatures and oxided surface condition may be enhanced by annealing furnace atmosphere.
C2	An inorganic insulation coating that consists of a glass-like film which forms during hightemperature hydrogen anneal of grain oriented silicon steel as a result of the reaction of an applied coating of magnesium oxide and silicates in the surface of the steel. This coating is abrasive and can withstand normal stress relief annealing.
C3	An organic enamel or varnish coating that is applied over the steel’s natural oxide surface. It provides very high levels of surface insulation resistance as well as protection against rusting. It also can increase die life by providing lubrication during the stamping process. While suitable at normal operating temperatures of electrical devices, it will not withstand the heat of stress relief annealing.
C3A	The same as C3 but with a thinner coating thickness to facilitate welding of rotors/stators and minimize welding residue.
C4	An inorganic coating that is produced by a special chemical and thermal processing of the steel surface. It is best for punched laminations where only a moderate degree of surface insulation and increased die life are desired. This coating is not harmed by standard stress relief annealing temperatures, retaining adequate surface insulation characteristics.
C4A	The same as C4 but with a thinner coating thickness to facilitate welding of rotors/stators and minimize welding residue.
C4AS	This anti-stick surface treatment provides protection against lamination sticking during the annealing process of semi-processed steels.
C5	This is a high-resistance insulation formed by a chemical treatment similar to that of C4 but with the addition of an inorganic filler to enhance its electrical resistance. It will withstand stress relief annealing if temperatures do not exceed 1500 degrees F (815 degrees C) and a neutral or slightly reduced atmosphere is used.
C5A	The same coating as C5 but with a thinner coating thickness to facilitate welding of rotors/ stators and minimize welding residue.
C5AS	A C5 type coating used primarily for preventing sticking of semi-processed non-oriented electrical steel and cold-rolled motor lamination steel during quality anneals. It also could facilitate welding of rotors/stators and minimize welding residue.
C6	This is an organic based coating with inorganic fillers added to improve insulation qualities. It is typically used for fully processed non-oriented steels. The coating improves the punchability of steel.

[Clugh]

Außer jemand, der billige Materialien verwendet........


Hallo Dr., schön zu sehen, dass Ihre Online-Werbung zeigt, dass die von Ihnen verwendeten Scorpion-Statoren immer noch so günstig wie möglich gebaut sind und keine Isolierung zwischen den Blechen haben. Diese Statoren rutschen sehr leicht. Ich hatte schon mehrere in der Hand, bei denen das passiert ist. Wenn der Kern so krumm wird, verringert sich die Drehmomententwicklung. Die Bleche fallen auseinander, weil sie nicht miteinander verklebt sind. Diese Presspassungen bieten keinerlei Sicherheit.

Wenn Sie einen Kern auslagern, warum lassen Sie ihn dann nicht in C5 verkleben, wodurch die platzraubenden Kapton-Nuteneinsätze entfallen? Es macht für mich keinen Sinn, mit schlecht konstruierten Stapeln zu prahlen oder anzugeben. Aber herzlichen Glückwunsch zum gepressten chinesischen Eisen

Es ist sicher nichts Besonderes.

Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Their models cost 5 times more. And the quality is second to none. Its well over 5000.00 or better in the SINGLE turbine pictured here and gear reduction alone. I have nothing compared to these guys. I am comparatively poor. I am not delusional to that reality. Its an extremely lofty goal to believe you can have a model that out performs their$.

[Clugh]

See you can have your TYCO then what they do is pull out rc models like this.....and laugh at you....

[Clugh]

Here's the thing about flying the plane. For me a pilot that can do it can bring me back logged data etc. So I can look at it then try to create a better machine. The information is much more valuable because it also lets me know what the size and weight constraints are in the speed flying I need to know that to speak on the possibilities. There is no doubt the plane was not cheap nor would be the Radio but so what? Its still nothing but an inflated tyco rc that a grown man waste his money on. It doesn't matter anyway because it is all excessive and there would have always been better things I could do with money. The reason the plane was purchased was exactly for collecting and reporting data and also In case there would someone that would fallaciously attack me or my work and use a metric such as I have nothing for competition flying to seal the deal on social media. I do not plan to allow tactics like that to work in a technical forum. The reason you have to have better equipment to even think of competing or talking with the Europeans is because they are going to bring the best equipment to the table for any "competitions". You need an edge if you can find one. The Dutch for instance are consistently strong in many other forms of flight competitions including F5B. I'm not a total idiot as Dr Okons believes. I have enough since to prepare myself appropriately for "proxy" wars....



But seriously I always view the Europeans videos and work because as an American I know they always bring some of the best equipment and engineering work to the table for competitive rc. If you do not have it they will not pay any attention to you or even think about listening to your engineering suggestions. I've crossed very few that were cost prohibitive in RC

Even in the rc unlimited hydroplanes they go a step further and run true turbines. High end RC is an obsession with them..... u gone need more than that tyco to be competitive......

[Evan D]

Rode MX back back in the day and a little road racing. Last MX was a CRF450R sold about 3 years ago but I was just playing with it and the tracks I had access to were frankly horrible. Other than my R1 I have a Husky 701E. I wanted to go to the SMX but my friend has his 50th ann party that evening.

While I still have a F5D and a S400 I have long ago sold my real fast stuff. I don't fly them hardly at all. Heck I still have my open combat control line planes I flew in the mid 70's still plus spare engines... Now I mostly fly EDFs but still have a lot of variable type planes, gliders, helos, and quads. While I would be intersted in watching some good pylon I have no interest in traveling to do so. And I really don't fly others' planes, only a maiden for friends or doing some instruction.

Sounds like you have some very optimal equipment.

[Clugh]

Evan ill prolly be Charlotte saturday for SMX I see you ride bikes dont know if you saw my 2024 RMZ450 but here is my Boys new 2024 Husky we are working on
we grabbed this with only 2 hours on it about 90 days ago. everything you see we did . it was totally stock grey and yellow when we got it.

[Clugh]

Gerben van Burken says the castle is a little stronger in his flying experience. It is also a very light inverter with extremely low on resistance. YGE is no where near it or the APD in terms of internal resistance. Those are just the facts as they are. They also obviously run cooler than a YGE at full power. Dr Ralph Okon cannot change that with a silly editorial about a scorpion motor on German social media.

[Clugh]

I have no issue with YGE . It is a good product when used correctly and not abused, but If you want LIGHT modern agnostic power for speed then this is what you run. The 18 kW drive is 36 grams!!!
The improved F_Series 200F3[X] ESCs. Building upon our trusted ARM 32-bit architecture, the V2 release features introduce a number of highly requested features into the product range, including configuration options and additional drive modes. The 200F3[X]v2 ESCs are drop-in replaceable to 200F3[X] units. As before, existing features include PWM-frequency dithering and Active Phase-Current Demagnetisation, allowing for smooth control with virtually all powertrain combinations with peak power outputs of up to 18 kW.

NDAA/DFARS-compliant options available upon request. New Feature Set (v2)

• Configuration of drive parameters, signal types and fault handling
• On board bootloader
• Additional Telemetry types: PWM Telemetry and RPM Output
• High-speed telemetry rates when operating DShot
• Reversible operation support (full forwards to full reverse)
• Dynamic signal quality checks across supported input protocols

Feature Set

• Designed and manufactured in Australia using only the highest quality components, ensuring no sacrifice in reliability
• Proprietary firmware designed in Australia
• Plug and play firmware
• Up to 14S (60 V) capable
• Up to 200 A continuous* output current
• 300 A Burst current
• True 10-bit resolution
• Virtually no setup time, with simple motor reverse solder tab
• Auto-detect PWM or DShot
• DShot150 to DShot600 capable (0.15-0.6Mbs/s)
• Up to 750,000 eRPM (protocol dependant)
• Motor agnostic
• Auto PWM output frequency
• Auto timing advance
• Telemetry output
• Automatic current limiting and over-temperature protection
• LED indication
• Digital commands over ProShot (including anti-turtle mode)
• Digital commands over DShot
• Bare-PCB design to allow maximum integration within the end setup
• 8-Layer PCB to ensure minimal track resistance

* Continuous current ratings are at a 100% throttle duty cycle. Continuous rating is defined as max sustained current at 100% throttle for 60 seconds with 33 m/s of airflow.

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

I flew Nelsons in the day. Looks like there have been some FAI class changes, to be expected.

If you can still fly the maybe we need to link when I complete it. I got a top notch vehicle for you. It was specially laid strong for straight line speed. I mite load it with 1/2 turn 1527 on 6 s if i don't do something custom. Steve suggested to me that a speed plane should have smaller active surface so It has its limits but I also have a 6 axis gryo so maybe that can be used to level it out as the speed increases. I still need a radio. I'm interested in a JETI radio but think. I'm sticking with Futaba for familiarity with the brand.

[Clugh]

I flew Nelsons in the day. Looks like there have been some FAI class changes, to be expected.

Yeah as I understand in his HOF speech he basically told the AMA kiss his a-z. He's a very frank individual as I understand basically telling them they ruined the sport . JA was at the ceremony. I guess some regulation limited the power his nelson LS motor could truly make.

I think he is still with us. That's definitely someone to contact if he is. True guru!!

[Evan D]

I flew Nelsons in the day. Looks like there have been some FAI class changes, to be expected.

[Clugh]

Ask Dubb Jett about my partner James Allen. Not the pilot but the engine builder. Then the Md. in Germany will know what I know about us and how competitive we can be. All I need is a pilot! I can put the best equipment in his hands!!!

Electric or IC you see so it really doesn't matter to me. I still have his milk!

You boys already know who Henry Nelson is. So for me the case is fully closed on Dr Okon.

Steve Neu is also my partner. He builds excellent BLDC motors as the world already knows they rule the e air events. He has also told Dr Okon that his 5050 is at its saturation limits based of the 1200.00 dollar totally agnostic 600 ampere APD inverter starts to limit it. Even though the temps well exceed 200C he claims the motor is fine. What he decided to post is the ESC are the limiters in extended performance and to cut of the agnostic features of the drive. Thats how you get the fires when the inverters had inherent fail safes disabled.

I contacted YGE directly and confirmed it with their engineers in which he came onto the German forum and said the YGE engineers didnt know how their own drive works. YGE did not take it kindly and put the motor in its place informing him on the same forum in front of everyone that it has already been damaged on the first flight and why the inverter was limiting it. Turning off the safety was a ill advised move. YGE is so tired of repairing them they will no longer support the repair of a YGE 320 very soon and will suggest the opto 255 SMART INVERTER. The 320 is OBSOLETE!!!!

What I offer is a engine tuner should come up with a better suggestion for flying faster than cutting of a safety like thermal protection for his pilots that protect the entire plane essentially and lets them fly again.


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