Zu Ihrer Information: Für einen guten Wechselrichter brauchen Sie keine 32-Bit-Architektur. Seit fast 20 Jahren gibt es 16-Bit-DSP-Motorsteuerungsmodule. Open-Source-Aurduino-Umgebungen haben beispielsweise die Verbraucherpräsenz von Atmel-Chips gegenüber PIC-ICs auf den Markt gebracht.
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Komm schon, Ralph, zeig Michael die stromführenden Pflaster auf dem YGE 4oo. Das ist es, was mit der 8-Lagen-Leiterplatte von APD konkurriert??? Er denkt, alles, was du erwähnst, sei wirklich etwas Besonderes. Du könntest einem Kunden wie diesem wahrscheinlich Sauerstoff verkaufen, wenn du das grüne Krokodil darauf setzen würdest.
Ich sehe, Sie haben neben all dem Gerede auch das HK 3226 in der Schublade in der Hundehütte liegen gelassen.
💔
HubertComment
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Hi,
Since the availability of high-performance engines seems to be dwindling a suggestion.
Lehner 3040/15 KV 700 according to Lehner table. 1050g with gearbox 4:1 Reisenauer Super Chief 81g, weight 1131g
current at ETA max 300 amps
If you don't want to fly with 16S, you could also go down to 8S2P with then 3040/7 or 6 winders, which is e.g. tested with Steller Castle XLX2 with over 700 amps. Jörg Mirkwischka drives the actuators in the SAW boat with each motor 400 A + with light 22XX series motors. Depending on the number of turns and battery voltage, drive load speeds of 10000 - 12000 would be possible with a very high efficiency of over 90%.
Costs 520,- € motor plus 30,-€ for an 8mm shaft (which would be recommended if the sprocket is only glued because of the larger adhesive surface), gearbox 190,- -200,- € pulse 19,-€ sprocket. Reisenauer can also weld the sprocket. So 769,-€ for the engine with gearbox.
Due to the much higher efficiency, there will not be as much heat loss in the engine. More power will arrive at the propeller, could lead to higher V-Max. Due to the option of the triangle star switching option, you can fly a little defused for training on star with the same propellers. Of course, this is also possible with a smaller propeller.
3040
3040: Weight: approx. 1050g Delivery without connector Owner's manual and technical data Calculate engine speed chart & performance diagram FAQ
www.lehner-shop.com
https://www.lehner-motoren.de/doc/man_30_series_de_01_2020.pdf
https://www.lehner-motoren.de/doc/rpm_all_de_08_2020.pdf
Happy Amps Christian
Nice!
Christian can you guys wire the lehner motor for the two inverters 180 degrees out?
Sehen Sie auch nach, ob Sie die Markus YGE-ESC-Datenbank für Ecalc in die Hände bekommen können, damit wir die Innenwiderstände der gesamten YGE-Reihe anzeigen können.
Thank you
HubertComment
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Hi,
As the availability of high performance engines appears to be dwindling, a suggestion is made. Lehner 3040/15 KV 700 according to Lehner table. 1050g with gear 4:1 Reisenauer Super Chief 81g, weight 1131g Current at ETA max 300 amps If you don't want to fly with 16S you could also go down to 8S2P with 3040/7 or 6 winders, for example tested with Steller Castle XLX2 with over 700 amps. Jörg Mirkwischka drives the actuators in the SAW boat, each with a 400 A + motor and light 22XX series engines. Depending on the number of turns and battery voltage, drive load speeds of 10,000 - 12,000 could be achieved with a very high efficiency of over 90%. Costs €520 motor plus €30 for an 8mm shaft (which would be recommended if the pinion is only glued because of the larger adhesive surface), gearbox €190 - €200 pulse €19 pinion. Reisenauer can also weld the pinion. So €769 for the engine with gearbox. Due to the much higher efficiency, there is not as much heat loss in the engine. More power will reach the propeller, which could lead to a higher V-Max. Thanks to the option of the delta star connection switch, you can fly somewhat defused for training on star with the same propeller. Of course, this also works with a smaller propeller. 3040 3040: Weight: approx. 1050g Delivery without plug connector Operating instructions and technical data Speed table Calculate motor & performance diagram FAQ www.lehner-shop.com www.lehner-shop.com https://www.lehner-motoren.de/doc/ma...de_01_2020.pdf https://www.lehner-motoren.de/doc/rp...de_08_2020.pdf
Donˋt forget the Steve Neu drives with exelend motors and high performance gears.
Happy Amps ChristianComment
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But you didn't answer my question about the dual inverter wiring on the Lehner inrunner. I dont have a plane with a 64mm spinner so I cant accommodate a 3040 right now.Originally posted by Chxpress View Post
A 1539 is 40 mm in diameter Chris and the 1/4 turn TL4 rotor will spin at 90000 rpm.
My interest in the LMT is if Lehner can deliver a termination that will let me run two inverters 180 degrees out from one another. This is for my boat not a plane.
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Ich vermute auch, dass Ihre Freunde die Leistung des Wechselrichters und der Hardware, die ich ihnen gezeigt habe, nicht kennen. Es ist viel besser als jedes YGE und sie können es selbst bauen. Darum geht es bei Advanced RC Modeling.
Bitte beantworten Sie die Fragen einfach mit Ihrem RCN-Know-how. Lassen Sie sich nicht auf den Unsinn ein. Bleiben Sie bei den Zahlen. Überlassen Sie alle Irrtümer Ralph, der auf dem Weg ist. Sie wissen es bereits.
Sie können sich später bei mir melden.
Happy Harmonics
HubertComment
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Ich denke, ein Motor der 30er-Serie könnte den Propeller bei 12000 U/min direkt antreiben, wenn der Wind richtig ist. Ich habe dir gesagt, dass du etwa 3 Nm brauchst, um den 11x22 auf 15000 U/min zu drehen.
Sie haben Sie schnell freigeschaltet, als ich Ihnen sagte, Sie sollten hier Mitglied werden ... Sie wissen, dass sie ihren Goldjungen nicht verlieren wollen. Es gibt dort nicht viele Experten, weil sie nicht verstehen, wie sie den aktuellen Sinn austricksen können, um einen schlechteren Bericht zu erstellen.
Sogar auf Deutsch können sie nicht verstehen, was ich ihnen sage, und es ist alles Tatsache.
Have a good day.
HubertComment
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Hello everyone,
actually I don't like to comment on such topics in forums, because as a manufacturer you are quickly nailed down to something.
However, there is a lot of false information here, which I would like to clarify a bit, or cannot leave as it is.
First of all, let's talk about it, we wouldn't be interested in the speed scene anymore.
It is true that Heino himself has withdrawn somewhat from model making.
But this is only about his own flying activity and not about the company's interest in model building.
At the Speedcup in Osnabrück, he has always been there in recent years, just like me.
Our main focus is still on model making, although the industrial part has grown somewhat in recent years.
I myself am very active in various model building areas and especially in the speed scene. I have been active at German championships, speed meetings and GSCs in the last 5 years. This year I became German champion.
I have mixed up the heli range in general with the 16S setup and have even developed a special housing for the Opto 255, which is optimized for speed applications (not only heli).
I don't want to push myself into the center of attention, but the statement that we are not interested in "the pair of speed planes" is simply wrong.
At least no other speed or motor manufacturer is currently personally participating in speed events, but I'm happy to be corrected.
What we really have to take into account is that we develop new products in such a way that they are as suitable as possible for a wide range of applications.
And it is the case that the area of fixed-wing aerobatics, helicopters, jets and motor gliders make up a much larger share than speed flight.
Especially since, to be honest, with a few exceptions, cross-country speed flying in particular gives relatively little "willingness for new things", factual feedback or even advertising.
Telemetry is not used, logs are neither viewed, evaluated, nor passed on to us.
It is then simply said "It doesn't pull through, the old 320 does."
The basic problem that has been addressed here several times is our synclost prevention, which has proven to be very helpful, safe and absolutely important in all areas. Except for some speed flyers.
The controller can detect a synclost in advance, and then does not continue to accelerate for the time being to avoid the said synclost.
This is because a Synclost can lead to a regulator defect, which is neither in the interest of the user nor in the interest of the manufacturer.
He then only accelerates as much as is physically possible and safe at that moment.
If the condition is safe, he continues to accelerate. The statement that he then stops at this opening is therefore also not correct.
This is an excellent feature, for example, in 3D surface models with large high-pole motors, huge battens and lightning-fast acceleration, where other controllers have massive problems. Our old generation (160/320HV) too, by the way.
This is also the case in the drone and helicopter sector useful in every respect to protect the controller without switching off because of every fart.
The fact that we do not explain to everyone exactly according to which scheme this protection function works is due on the one hand to the fact that it is very complex and dependent on many factors, and also simply out of secrecy vis-à-vis competitors.
But if you go here and run a setup that is dimensioned to the synclost limit or even just beyond it with a controller that does not have this feature, this can work well a few times. But it can also break after a few flights.
And to be honest, this is exactly what happens quite often with the 160/320HV for exactly this reason.
It should be clear that this is not in the interest of the manufacturer.
If you now exchange this controller for an Opto 255, it will not work 1:1 like this.
The controller recognizes the synclost and does not open fully.
What happens? Currents of ~300A flow at partial load at 80-90%, which creates enormous heat loss. Not only on the ESC, but also on the motor.
The regulator then protects itself by reducing the speed at some point due to overtemperature.
And that's how these cases come about: "He's getting too hot" or "He's not pulling it off".
I think it is questionable that motors break down due to overheating or magnets demagnetize as a result. These should be designed in such a way that you should first recognize it by the winding. At least that was Ralph's statement on the phone.
And even if it does, the original mistake is still the wrongly sized setup that would lead to the synclost, and not the controller that protects itself. The other way around, the motor does not protect the regulator either.
The fact that this feature exists should be known by now. So it makes no sense to exhaust a setup until the engine squeaks.
That will not happen.
and if the ESC has to limit so that it hangs permanently in partial load and does not open fully, the prop is simply too big for the motor, or the speed. If the engine is damaged as a result, then something must be wrongly dimensioned.
You just have to adapt the setups to the current technology, and maybe don't go directly to the synclost limit, but feel your way around.
Nowadays, this is only possible by using telemetry (which is not a brand new technology) and reading and evaluating logs and error memories. Kai described it nicely, observing the throttle preselection and regulator opening. The controller outputs both via telemetry. Only then can you optimize something or detect any errors.
It is always limited to the MosFets, which is also not correct. It's the regulator as a whole.
The statement that the old MosFets are better is also wrong. A quick look at the spec sheet confirms this.
The MosFets are so good these days that this is no longer the deciding factor. Much more important is how to get the heat out of the components and the circuit board as quickly as possible so that no heat build-up occurs.
In the past, this was mainly due to the number of MosFets and thus reducing the internal resistance.
Nowadays, this is done more by adjusting the power supply, thickness of the circuit boards and heat dissipation, i.e. the heat sink or the case.
By the way, the one series 160/200HV V5 that has been mentioned here more often, which is not synclost-proof. Again, these were not the MosFets, but it was simply the circuit board itself.
And even then, temperature management played a major role.
But if, for example, the shrink tubing is removed from the 160/320HV, the temperature sensor is also in the air flow.
So it no longer measures the actual power amplifier temperature at all. Which is another reason why the service life of the 160/320HV in speed flight is often not that insanely long. Otherwise he would play the "Heino song" much earlier.
The fact that we don't relaunch the old series has nothing to do with the fact that the speed scene is not important to us. It is simply not right from the manufacturer's point of view to revive a product that is now 15 years old (Ab Entwicklung), which no longer corresponds to the state of the art and was also bluntly stolen by the Chinese and copied cheaply, for an application where it is known that failures are frequent. The procurement of obsolete components is also difficult.
For us, the interest is much more in improving the current product, which works very well in most areas of application thanks to the many feedbacks. See e.g. the Speedhelis. An estimated 90% now use the Opto 255. Here, too, the controller and especially the software have been gradually optimized for. Not everything went perfectly from the beginning. And that doesn't just have to do with the fact that I'm active here myself. This is only possible with sufficient tests and feedback, which we get here from numerous pilots.
I don't want to rule out the possibility that in rare cases the aforementioned synclost prevention can also lead to engine defects.
But then it's not the synclost prevention that is responsible, but the incorrectly designed setup.
The fact that this feature exists should be known by now. So it makes no sense to exhaust a setup until the engine squeaks.
That will not happen.
To say "The Opto 255 doesn't work with these engines" is something everyone has to decide for themselves...
After all, there are pilots who are very good and safe on the road with it.
Flying greetings
MarianComment
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Didn't I tell the brilliant 20 to run the 255 and the motors were spent. Im glad YGE saw the bs Ralph said and corrected it and they touched on everything the loud mouth Ameribuddy has said. Go back and review.
Thank you YGE for confirmation LOL!
DIDNT I TELL YOU THE MOTOR SIMPLY HAS NO PULL OUT TORQUE AT YOUR DEMAND,
HubertComment
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Nur ein Idiot kann Ihnen sagen, dass die Ingenieure bei YGE ihren eigenen Controller nicht kennen. Jetzt verstehen Sie alle Ralph und seinen Unsinn, weil er sagt, dass er den 255 hasst und er nicht funktioniert. Das war die ganze Prämisse, dass die Wechselrichter dem Motor schaden. Blödsinn!
Sieh dich an, Ralph
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Christian fragt Marian, ob er die Kommutierung verbessern könnte, wenn er vom Motorhersteller die Induktivitätszahlen für die d- und q-Achse hätte. Er ist da, Sie haben sein Ohr, also nutzen Sie es. Fragen Sie ihn nach dem BWR oder dem Bandbreitenverhältnis.
Übrigens, Ralph,
Bevor Sie Benjamins VESC schlechtmachen, sollten Sie wissen, dass es sich um einen ausgezeichneten Wechselrichter handelt. Die Open-Source-Umgebung, in der er entwickelt wurde, ist auch ein hervorragender Ort, um etwas über Wechselrichterdesign zu lernen. Sie sollten sich dort umsehen, es wird Ihnen helfen. Es scheint fast so, als ob kein Wechselrichter gut genug für Ihre Maschine ist. Merken Sie, wie verrückt diese Idee zu erscheinen beginnt? Versuchen Sie es mit den Nutkeilen oder den Hybrid- oder Hochlagenwicklungen, insbesondere mit dem großen Leiter. In Hochlagen benötigen Sie nur eine oder zwei Windungen pro Lage, sogar halbe Windungen sind möglich, insbesondere wenn Sie eine Gerling/Gurakuq-Theorie mit ungleichen Spulenseiten implementieren.
Electrical noise is also a possible reason for dysync. Add capacitance and decrease the start ramps.Comment
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- MottaMotta
UserMarian-YGE wrote:How can it be that an APD400 HV with 220gr and closed aluminum cooler 320-330A continuous current at 16s without overheating until 5100 speed cells were empty? It took a few mails (with APD support) until we had the APD400 so far that it did not limit but after that there was not a single failure, for overtemp, syncloss, squeaking or the like.
I know that, and we appreciate it! It is precisely because of this lack of hearing that such protective mechanisms have to be in place.
And this is not only related to the speed scene.
Correct!
The 255 refers to continuous full throttle with good cooling.
For a short time, the Opto can handle 255 to 400A, so you can open the current limit up to max. 400A.
How long it can do this depends on external conditions such as cooling conditions, outside temperature, etc.
I don't think it's a secret anymore that the controllers at that time, as well as with today's batteries, do not make 160A, 320A or 400A duration.
The thermal behavior cannot be compared either, because, as described above, the temperature sensor is in an unfavorable position, and the whole thing is manipulated by the missing shrink tube.
Thus, the regulator becomes permanently too hot, which explains the frequent failures.
And that's just something that is often swept under the table.
It is always said that the old 160s and 320s are so great. They went through it all.
If you're honest, they just don't. I can see what I have to take back from Ballenstedt to the service every time.
And that's exactly what manufacturers actually want to avoid.
Even if most speed pilots probably don't care if it breaks down after 30 or 50 flights.
For us, every defective regulator is reputationally damaging.
And you can say as often as you like that it is a custom-made product or a prototype in the first stage.
See the Opto 405 prototype in Ballenstedt.
In the end, it could be seen worldwide on Facebook, and it wasn't even published by the pilot himself.
This is one of the reasons why the project is currently on hold again...
In summary, in order to be able to do what is called up permanently, a 160/320HV would also have to be thermally much better, and thus also larger and heavier.
Greetings
Marian
Comment
- MottaMotta
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HubertAttached FilesComment
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Hey Ralph you told Marian the engineer at YGE you told nobody in crocoworld the 255 wasn't suitable this is what you actually said about bout Heino and the boys at YGE and their latest inverter which I told you some time ago is as powerful as the 320.
Look what you said then when they show up you reverse it.
Powercroco
UserThat's how I had actually heard it.
The target group is too small for both.
In the boat, water cooling works and the dimensions and weight hardly play a role - so it's a completely different thing.
In the classifieds there is a 160 (but boat) with the best fets that Heino had installed.
I was already thinking about it - but I don't really need it anymore anyway.
But maybe it's a bargain for an active speeder?
If someone is looking for a 255:
I still have one almost unused - I hate it.
The fact that you have to use a composter every time to program is extremely hateful to me.
In addition, apparently not even the manufacturer really knows anymore when the thing intervenes, why and how.
This gimmick destroyed 2 engines for me, which ran great in many places in a "normal" environment.
But these are the signs of the times.
From this point of view, I can only warn again against the use of my scrap iron with this newfangled consumer duck stuff.
Last edited: Monday at 12:42 PM
VG Ralph
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Materials for speedflight.
A Neumotor 1530 1 D on the 4:1 superchief can deliver the four 4 11.1 x 44 folder props arbitrarily taken with a gm profile at 10,180 rpm the pitch speed is 682km/h there it will do this at 5.6Kw of consumption on 12 s lipo. Thats at 254.41 amperes with an eta of 92% The castle 200 can handle that.
In a direct drive like a knocker you need just under 5Nm to pull such a prop there
HubertComment
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In Anbetracht von Kai's Daten und auch von meinen, die auch alle dem Hersteller bekannt waren / sind klingen für mich viele von Marians Aussagen verdammt schal.
Das Ziel, die alten Steller jetzt um jeden Preis schlecht zu machen und die neuen besser dastehen zu lassen ist für mich zu deutlich erkennbar.
Marian, dann komuniziert doch auch ganz klar, dass ein Einsatz dieser Steller im Grenzbereich ohne Nutzung der Telemetrie nicht empfohlen werden kann, weil der Steller dem User sonst keine Hinweis darauf mehr geben kann, was da grade passiert!
Wenn Fehler dem User nicht mehr direkt rückgemeldet werden ("Heinolied" und / oder deutlich merkliches (!) Rückregeln) und erst ein Auslesen am Computer (Telemetrie ist ja auch nix anderes) nötig ist, um zu erkennen, dass da was falsch am setup war, vermag ICH einen Gewinn nicht zu erkennen.
Immernoch gibt es jede Menge Modellbauer, die fragen, wozu der 3. Draht am Motor ist!
Aber das ist nur meine persönliche Meinung. Vielleicht empfindet ja die aktuelle Smartfon-Generation sowas inzwischen völlig anders.
Zuletzt bearbeitet: Vor 37 Minuten VG
Ralph
Ralph,
Ich wünsche Ihnen einen schönen Tag. Hintergehen funktioniert nicht! Schummeln funktioniert nicht! Schäm dich. Der Controller ist alt und veraltet, wie die vielen Toaststapel unter Ihnen und Ihren Freunden zeigen. Was werden Sie mit dem Rest machen, ihn wie Reliquien aufbewahren oder ihn zur Toastparty mitnehmen lassen?Comment
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Reisenauer Super Chief 4:1 planetary Gearbox
High-strength planetary gearbox with plasma hardened
Steel gears and planetary carrier with titanium shaft
Planetary gears with needle bearings
Output double row angular contact ball bearings
Weight 85 grams,
Diameter 38.5 mm,
Length without shaft 30mm
Bolt circle 30mm
Federal 21.6mm
Shaft diameter 6mm, polygon
therefore slip or Prop efficency not possible
wave length 22mm
Maximum input speed 40 000 rpm
Maximum throughput performance 3000 watts
Pinion 3.17mm, 4.0mm, 5mm, 6mm or 8mm possible
Reisenauer Super Chief 5:1 planetary gearbox with round shaft
High-strength planetary gearbox with plasma hardened
Steel gears and planetary carrier with titanium shaft
Planetary gears with needle bearings
Output double row angular contact ball bearings
Weight 78 grams,
Diameter 38.5 mm,
Length without shaft 30mm
Bolt circle 30mm
Federal 21.6mm
round shaft
therefore slip or Prop efficency not possible
wave length 22mm
Maximum input speed 40 000 rpm
Maximum throughput performance 3000 watts
Pinion 3.17mm, 4.0mm, 5mm, 6mm or 8mm possible
The Kv of Thomas HK 3226 is around 1980 Christian
Attached FilesComment
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A stronger gearbox is the i25 superchief
Reisenauer Super Chief 4:1i25 Our tried-and-tested planetary gearbox
now also with reduced installation dimensions.
for frame dimensions from 30 mm!
Reisenauer SUPER CHIEF i25 Needle bearing planetary gearbox
With flat and inject screw (regrease without removing the drive).
High-strength planetary gear with plasma-hardened steel gears and titanium planet carrier/shaft.
Output with double row, large angular contact ball bearings,
for very easy running and the absorption of high tensile and compressive loads.
Data:
Weight: 81g
Ø: 38,0mm
Length: 30mm without shaft
shaft length 30 mm
shaft Ø: 6,0 mm with flat
bolt circle: 25mm, 4xM3x8-Tx8
Max. Input speed: 50.000 rpm
Max. Power throughput: 3000 watts.
Max. Performance throughput: 5000 watts for 30 Sec.Attached FilesComment
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Or you could precision ground the 6mm to 5mm at the output of the motor.Comment
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U could scrap the superchief for a maxon p42 from NeumotorsComment
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