Freewing 90mm F-22 Raptor - Official Thread

[john2kx]

I’m still using jeti assist in all my aircraft (8). Tried aura, cortex, and hands down, for my money I’m getting it all via the assist rx for my style of flying.

Running the jeti “jet” default program in all my edf’s and have all worked off the bench with things always dialed in on the low side of things, if that makes sense. My FW F22 is at jeti jet default, plus 10% on all three axis, with a slide switch to tweak gain on the fly. I hope to use my gps system to tune gain via aircraft speed this season to avoid those high speed passes with gain left at 100% by mistake.

I’m flying a Flex Ventique 60 on assist as well. And, a 150 mph rare bear (6S) that’s a hand full at full power. The assist has worked as I expected in these aircraft as well.

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Hey gang, haven’t posted in ages but lockdown has got me right back into RC. I have the avanti and looking for my next jet - but want scale this time - that can run on grass. Torn between the f22 and f4...this question applies to both I guess..

If I go for the 8s version, can I run it on 6s too? (Mainly so I can use my current batteries for it whilst I get used to it...the hit up the powwwwwah when I’m comfortable with it)

[Evan D]

no...

[Mizer67]

Hey gang, haven’t posted in ages but lockdown has got me right back into RC. I have the avanti and looking for my next jet - but want scale this time - that can run on grass. Torn between the f22 and f4...this question applies to both I guess..

If I go for the 8s version, can I run it on 6s too? (Mainly so I can use my current batteries for it whilst I get used to it...the hit up the powwwwwah when I’m comfortable with it)

I recently bought the 6S version and it rotates fine on my very uneven, often wet and bumpy grass using takeoff flaps and a slightly rearward CG. I was concerned at first, but it wasn't warranted. The only real issue is if your CG is too nose heavy, that'll lengthen the takeoff run, as I found out on my maiden flight.

I don't find this jet particularly fast, partly given it's size, but being my first 90mm, it seems to retain energy very well which is a nice attribute vs. my Mirage for instance. The verticals aren't huge, but if you're carrying speed from a level pass, it's got at least 200 ft. until it bleeds off all the speed it carried into the maneuver and stalls. It's also (and I'm sure you've seen this) a very high lift design. I haven't gotten confident enough to fly it low, but it will really crawl across the sky if you put in full flaps and hold a high AoA - and lower weight is a positive attribute if flying high AoA is your goal. The 8S would give more grunt to punch out though.

On this jet, I don't think the extra weight of 8S would be too much of a penalty and more power and speed is of course, better. I'm not disappointed with the 6S version. I'm still feeling out it's capabilities. I think a hot 6S setup is a great combo for this plane, minus the relatively short flight time. I plan on putting in the 1835kv HET motor soon. The main issue is flight time...don't expect any more than ~3 minutes of useful throttle time, even with throttle conservation, to land at high 3.7's on the 6S battery.

[BenAtkinsonUK]

Thanks very much for the info! Useful insight

[john2kx]

Mizer, I find your description of the 6S F22 spot on. Have a few hundred flights on mine and am at the point where I need to fix or replace some issues I have with fuse caused by my abuse. My flying partner just started flying the 8S version and I don’t “see” much difference in how the two fly. I’ll get my hands on it soon to see. We often formation fly and perhaps we can learn more running them side by side. We both run full house telemetry systems and gps of different brands. We will see how they compare as well while in flight.

Your comment about flight time strikes home with me. Most of my FW jets get about 3 1/2 minutes and I’ve had a dozen or so kits so far. Picked up a 80 mm Avanti S and am getting consistent 5:45 of flying with throttle management. Monitoring individual cells, I back off throttle when I hear two or more cells announce 3.67 or less. I run a 70 and 80% capacity alarm as well. I typically return to pits with 25% remaining and main pack total voltage at 22.2. Sure hope more efficient power trains will develop in the future.

[Evan D]

The F-22 is all wing and very efficient. That said it is a huge plane compared to other 90mm EDFs. Fast is different for different people. Mine on a JF/ HET 1680 set up does 126mph level (my F-18 on the same set up is 20mph faster). I also tried 10 and 12S in it and the increase in speed was disappointing and went back to 8S as the best all around set up for me. I want to stress that this is for me and how I fly. I also have thrust vectoring on mine and fly mostly "3D-ish".

Weight... If you have the older 6S version you have the lightest version. Going to the 6S high perf is a little heavier and the old 8S is heaviest I believe. Going to a Jet Fan/ HET is no heavier than the 6S high perf version. Some of that is the stock ESC/BEC is heavy and using a Castle 120HV or the Hobby King 120HV Plush are both lighter. As everyone knows a lot of overall weight and flight time is dependent on batteries. First the F-22 carries it's weight well and you can easily carry a 1kg pack such as the Hobby Star 8000 100C which is well under 1kg. I am flying Hobby Star 5200 batteries which for 8S is 830g. I also flew older Zippy Compacts that were just over 1kg, the difference was noticeable to me.

There is a lot of info in this thread and everything I just typed has been posted a few times before. The search function will help you find more info.

I recently bought the 6S version and it rotates fine on my very uneven, often wet and bumpy grass using takeoff flaps and a slightly rearward CG. I was concerned at first, but it wasn't warranted. The only real issue is if your CG is too nose heavy, that'll lengthen the takeoff run, as I found out on my maiden flight.

I don't find this jet particularly fast, partly given it's size, but being my first 90mm, it seems to retain energy very well which is a nice attribute vs. my Mirage for instance. The verticals aren't huge, but if you're carrying speed from a level pass, it's got at least 200 ft. until it bleeds off all the speed it carried into the maneuver and stalls. It's also (and I'm sure you've seen this) a very high lift design. I haven't gotten confident enough to fly it low, but it will really crawl across the sky if you put in full flaps and hold a high AoA - and lower weight is a positive attribute if flying high AoA is your goal. The 8S would give more grunt to punch out though.

On this jet, I don't think the extra weight of 8S would be too much of a penalty and more power and speed is of course, better. I'm not disappointed with the 6S version. I'm still feeling out it's capabilities. I think a hot 6S setup is a great combo for this plane, minus the relatively short flight time. I plan on putting in the 1835kv HET motor soon. The main issue is flight time...don't expect any more than ~3 minutes of useful throttle time, even with throttle conservation, to land at high 3.7's on the 6S battery.

[Mizer67]

Mizer, I find your description of the 6S F22 spot on. Have a few hundred flights on mine and am at the point where I need to fix or replace some issues I have with fuse caused by my abuse. My flying partner just started flying the 8S version and I don’t “see” much difference in how the two fly. I’ll get my hands on it soon to see. We often formation fly and perhaps we can learn more running them side by side. We both run full house telemetry systems and gps of different brands. We will see how they compare as well while in flight.

Your comment about flight time strikes home with me. Most of my FW jets get about 3 1/2 minutes and I’ve had a dozen or so kits so far. Picked up a 80 mm Avanti S and am getting consistent 5:45 of flying with throttle management. Monitoring individual cells, I back off throttle when I hear two or more cells announce 3.67 or less. I run a 70 and 80% capacity alarm as well. I typically return to pits with 25% remaining and main pack total voltage at 22.2. Sure hope more efficient power trains will develop in the future.

Thanks, I appreciate the insight from someone with more experience. I'm still a novice with this plane (and to EDFs somewhat) and only recently getting back into to RC. I'm running on an AR620 reciever, so the only telemetry I have is for the receiver itself. I could probably squeak out another 30 seconds of flight time with better throttle management and telemetry. I'm usually landing with a little bit of reserve just to be safe if I'm a little too heavy on the throttle.

Regarding your point towards longer flight times, I've been out of the hobby since ~2016. I've noticed a slow creep of advancement with EDFs since then, but mainly towards more power/speed (and higher cell counts) vs. longer flight times. I suppose that could swap, but I expect the market continues to want more power vs. longer flights if there's a trade off as evidenced by the proliferation of 8S setups since 2016 or so it seems.

[Mizer67]

The F-22 is all wing and very efficient. That said it is a huge plane compared to other 90mm EDFs. Fast is different for different people. Mine on a JF/ HET 1680 set up does 126mph level (my F-18 on the same set up is 20mph faster). I also tried 10 and 12S in it and the increase in speed was disappointing and went back to 8S as the best all around set up for me. I want to stress that this is for me and how I fly. I also have thrust vectoring on mine and fly mostly "3D-ish".

Weight... If you have the older 6S version you have the lightest version. Going to the 6S high perf is a little heavier and the old 8S is heaviest I believe. Going to a Jet Fan/ HET is no heavier than the 6S high perf version. Some of that is the stock ESC/BEC is heavy and using a Castle 120HV or the Hobby King 120HV Plush are both lighter. As everyone knows a lot of overall weight and flight time is dependent on batteries. First the F-22 carries it's weight well and you can easily carry a 1kg pack such as the Hobby Star 8000 100C which is well under 1kg. I am flying Hobby Star 5200 batteries which for 8S is 830g. I also flew older Zippy Compacts that were just over 1kg, the difference was noticeable to me.

There is a lot of info in this thread and everything I just typed has been posted a few times before. The search function will help you find more info.

Thanks Evan. The 6S version I have, with a ~743-745-ish gram battery weighs in at +/- 3710 grams AUW on my scale ready to fly. They say lighter flies better, which is true to a point, I notice you're running very light batteries at 830g, so that helps performance with your 8S setup quite a bit I'd think vs. going heavier. I think you're savings a couple hundred grams perhaps there alone as my 6S battery weighs almost that amount by itself, so you have 8S power at approx. 6S weight, which is a win-win provided those batteries perform.

Regarding speed, I don't think the F-22 is a slouch in the speed dept. per se. I think I'm probably hitting the ~105 mph claimed for 6S, but as huge as this thing is, it doesn't seem like it's going very fast vs. a smaller model. Probably just the visual difference vs. the smaller jets. I didn't buy this one for its straight line speed, but more for its flexibility - I'm getting a kick out of flying this jet and my others slow at the moment. I'd like to learn more 3D-ish type of maneuvers with them, I dabbled a bit but never got good before quitting the hobby for a few years, but my skill and comfort level isn't there yet to try it with the F-22.

[Evan D]

I agree 100% with everything you just posted Mizer, good post!

Thanks Evan. The 6S version I have, with a ~743-745-ish gram battery weighs in at +/- 3710 grams AUW on my scale ready to fly. They say lighter flies better, which is true to a point, I notice you're running very light batteries at 830g, so that helps performance with your 8S setup quite a bit I'd think vs. going heavier. I think you're savings a couple hundred grams perhaps there alone as my 6S battery weighs almost that amount by itself, so you have 8S power at approx. 6S weight, which is a win-win provided those batteries perform.

Regarding speed, I don't think the F-22 is a slouch in the speed dept. per se. I think I'm probably hitting the ~105 mph claimed for 6S, but as huge as this thing is, it doesn't seem like it's going very fast vs. a smaller model. Probably just the visual difference vs. the smaller jets. I didn't buy this one for its straight line speed, but more for its flexibility - I'm getting a kick out of flying this jet and my others slow at the moment. I'd like to learn more 3D-ish type of maneuvers with them, I dabbled a bit but never got good before quitting the hobby for a few years, but my skill and comfort level isn't there yet to try it with the F-22.

[jefff944]

Anyone interested in some parts, F22 crashed the first 30 seconds into its maiden flight. Radio went dead stick no control at all, it rolled over and straight into the ground. The majority of the damage was the nose cone and front of fuselage. I have to good wings, rear landing gear, turbine etc... Here is a link to a video of the crash-> https://youtu.be/SpjUHx7FYCw

[Evan D]

Welcome to the forum.

What are you expecting from Motion?

[SoCalBobS]

Didn't you get the crash insurance?

[Mizer67]

I don't know how you'd expect Motion to do anything for you unless you can identify a defective component caused the crash.

One thing I did notice is that you rotated extremely early on grass (I fly off grass as well) and the early wing rock looked like an incipient stall. I couldn't tell anything definitive from the end of the video, where it rolled right and went in, but it looked like there was up elevator input along with some aileron in the slow-motion video (slow to .25 in settings on Youtube) if you watch it closely. I can't of course say if that input was commanded by your actions on the radio or not. This up elevator looks like it caused a stall, in my opinion and the aileron input reduced lift on one side during the stall causing the roll. Pulling the plane off early before it's ready to fly will cause this type of scenario, even with this high lift design.

The only other thing you can check would be your receiver connection. Did you do a range check before T/O by chance? What kind of radio/receiver setup were you running?

[Beeg]

Sorry for your loss.
Based on the video it looked like you had some control right up until the stall. The pitch wobble after liftoff looked like either too aft a CG or too sensitive elevator which looked like an over control situation and either at slow speed is a recipe for disaster. Also looked like something came off the airplane about halfway through.
Have you had any other problems with EDF models from Motion RC? Out of curiosity what was the lack of support?

[TomPatton]

Was the elevator neutral position set per manual? I have heard of similar almost crashes due to elevator center position set with up elevator and lifting off before it has enough airspeed for safe control of the plane. Just a thought...
Mine flys great from the very first flight. Sorry for the loss. It happens to all of us at one time or another...

[Bogietrim]

Just horsing around with the Raptor this morning.

https://youtu.be/MdCR4u-3oZE

[Captain Moron]

This F 22 Rapter just gets better and better . I maiden it about 2 months ago but only had 2 flights .I thought this model is amazing. Just come back from a good few flight today with my F22 and I have really got use to it now and boy this is an amazing model .By far my favorite EDF worth every penny (or dime ) Even had some walkers stop and watch several flight of F22 and then comment on how real it look in the air but it was nothing to do with me it was the model it's self ,it looks so good in the air .Good one Freewing 👌

[Oachidori]

I just bought my F22, being my first jet..probably after holiday will make the maiden, because I have to buy some batteries, i didn't yet decided which kind but we will see. I hope to be happy after that.

[Evan D]

What, after Christmas????