Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[xviper]

Ok sounds good. I'll take a look a the clearance in the wheel well. Wonder if I should just put the stock gear back on and take my chances on my grass runway. Hmmm...

Thanks,

Jay

Not everyone has the bucking bronco thing on landing. Some people can grease the landing with the stock strut and have no issues, while some people with the trailing link strut can still have a bouncer regularly. It all depends on your landing technique. Land lightly on the mains first and let the nose drop down easy and it's not a problem no matter which strut you've got.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hey fella’s. So I installed the trailing link nose gear and I’m noticing the wheel will easily contact the gear door. Did I miss something or install it backwards? Here’s a pic of what it looks like when I push down on it.

Thanks,

Jay

I initially had the trailing link nose strut as well as most suggested it was best for grass ops. In about 50 flights landing on grass, on several occasions (maybe 5) that gear door "stuck" on the nose wheel after landing and acted as a full on brake. Kinda annoying but since it was on grass, the wheel slid enough on the grass without causing any damage, but it did come to a complete stop fairly quickly. Just made it a requirement to set it down as "lightly" as possible until it got "stuck" again on a take-off roll in some heavier grass. At first couldn't understand why it wouldn't get up to speed for take-off until I realized that the front wheel was no longer rolling and it was stuck on the door. After that I changed it back to the stock strut and it's been "rolling" free ever since. I can image on a hard runway or asphalt, if that nose wheel sticks on landing it may cause quite a issue, so either remove the door or go back to the stock strut.

[xviper]

An A-10 doing an "endo" would be quite spectacular.

[Hugh Wiedman]

An A-10 doing an "endo" would be quite spectacular.

As long as it wasn't mine!!

[lt1pwr]

I initially had the trailing link nose strut as well as most suggested it was best for grass ops. In about 50 flights landing on grass, on several occasions (maybe 5) that gear door "stuck" on the nose wheel after landing and acted as a full on brake. Kinda annoying but since it was on grass, the wheel slid enough on the grass without causing any damage, but it did come to a complete stop fairly quickly. Just made it a requirement to set it down as "lightly" as possible until it got "stuck" again on a take-off roll in some heavier grass. At first couldn't understand why it wouldn't get up to speed for take-off until I realized that the front wheel was no longer rolling and it was stuck on the door. After that I changed it back to the stock strut and it's been "rolling" free ever since. I can image on a hard runway or asphalt, if that nose wheel sticks on landing it may cause quite a issue, so either remove the door or go back to the stock strut.

Hi Hugh, thanks for sharing your experience with that TL nose gear. After considering the problems you had, I went ahead and re-installed the factory nose gear and I’ll see how it works. I’ll be sure to land on the mains first and gently lower the nose. That’s pretty much how I fly my AL37 so I’ll see how that goes. Hoping to maiden her this Friday pending weather.

Thanks!

Jay

[jetpltrich]

I took that door off and put it on a CDL list for performance compliance. It might add a milliampere to the battery burn. 😜

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hi Hugh, thanks for sharing your experience with that TL nose gear. After considering the problems you had, I went ahead and re-installed the factory nose gear and I’ll see how it works. I’ll be sure to land on the mains first and gently lower the nose. That’s pretty much how I fly my AL37 so I’ll see how that goes. Hoping to maiden her this Friday pending weather.

Thanks!

Jay

Good luck Jay, although I think you'll find this bird is a pleasure to fly and I doubt you will have any problems. I've also landed recently on asphalt several times with the stock nose gear with no problems. With full flaps and balanced around 90mm, I think you'll find that it will be stable on landing a lot slower than you think it would be. Suggest you do a couple "2 mistakes high" slow approaches with gear down and flaps down just to get a feeling of how slow it actually will go without stalling. You'll also find that you can completely cut power and it still glides surprisingly long again without stalling. I'm convinced that balancing it aft of 90mm to 95mm allows it to stay relatively level once trimmed at all throttle settings. As I've said before, the thrust wash from the fans goes directly over the horizontal stabs, so if it's not balanced perfectly, the horizontal orientation changes depending on the throttle settings. Too nose heavy (78mm) requires more up trim when cruising but when you reduce thrust, less force on the stabs keeping it level and the nose drops. I believe this is the single main cause of the few who have landed with the nose hitting first and getting the bucking bronco. Not enough authority with the elevators and only ambient air flow with little to no fan thrust over them. At virtually all throttle settings, the pitch of the A-10 does not change for me (even with a cut throttle) balanced at 93-95mm. Just my opinion and believe me, I'm basically an average pilot who is always challenged with landings, so if this works for me, there's something special about it. Easily the easiest EDF I have to land, including the Avanti! The only time I have a less than perfect landing is if I'm overly nervous and don't slow it down enough, but even then it always bails me out.

[lt1pwr]

Good luck Jay, although I think you'll find this bird is a pleasure to fly and I doubt you will have any problems. I've also landed recently on asphalt several times with the stock nose gear with no problems. With full flaps and balanced around 90mm, I think you'll find that it will be stable on landing a lot slower than you think it would be. Suggest you do a couple "2 mistakes high" slow approaches with gear down and flaps down just to get a feeling of how slow it actually will go without stalling. You'll also find that you can completely cut power and it still glides surprisingly long again without stalling. I'm convinced that balancing it aft of 90mm to 95mm allows it to stay relatively level once trimmed at all throttle settings. As I've said before, the thrust wash from the fans goes directly over the horizontal stabs, so if it's not balanced perfectly, the horizontal orientation changes depending on the throttle settings. Too nose heavy (78mm) requires more up trim when cruising but when you reduce thrust, less force on the stabs keeping it level and the nose drops. I believe this is the single main cause of the few who have landed with the nose hitting first and getting the bucking bronco. Not enough authority with the elevators and only ambient air flow with little to no fan thrust over them. At virtually all throttle settings, the pitch of the A-10 does not change for me (even with a cut throttle) balanced at 93-95mm. Just my opinion and believe me, I'm basically an average pilot who is always challenged with landings, so if this works for me, there's something special about it. Easily the easiest EDF I have to land, including the Avanti! The only time I have a less than perfect landing is if I'm overly nervous and don't slow it down enough, but even then it always bails me out.

Thanks Hugh! I’m starting off with my CG at 90mm and hoping that gets me close or right at the sweet spot for good handling and landings 😎.

Jay

[FlyHerbAir]

Can't really direct you to some threads on maidens, but I do have a couple of suggestions that have worked out well for me.
1) Manual suggests to balance it at 78mm. Too nose heavy for me, start around 88-90mm. I fly mine at 95mm which allows for a slower landing with full flaps while keeping the nose up. The only real problem people have had with this is landing fast with nose gear hitting either first or simultaneously with the mains which will cause the nose to bounce up and end up bucking like a bronco down the runway, usually ending in disaster. Balancing it at 78mm IMO makes this happen more often, while going to 90mm or more makes it super easy to land. This aircraft will slow down much more than you would expect and can glide in on low power nicely.
2) Use about 4-6 clicks of up elevator trim with recommended flap deflections.

That's about it, this is actually one of the easiest EDF's to fly and land. Has plenty of power and flies scale at 50% throttle.

[FlyHerbAir]

Thanks Hugh. I've occasionally had questionable CG corrections with manuals. I will take a look again at the numbers and go with your recommendations. I've also had "bucking bronco" jets...so danged irritating, to say the least. Your suggestions are really appreciated.

[lt1pwr]

So I had my maiden on the A-10 this past Friday. Beautiful weather with blue skies and no clouds but the wind was gusting to 12 knots down the runway for the most part.. First flight went perfectly well and I was impressed how it flew like a trainer with lots of power. It did fairly well in the wind and my first landing was just buttery smooth. My 2nd flight was good but the winds changed direction and there was a nasty cross wind. After 2 missed approaches due to fighting the crosswind, I managed to get her down, however the nose gear hit hard and the retract output shaft bent a little and the rear section of the retract door broke off. While I'm waiting on my replacement parts to show up this week, I was wondering what the general consensus is regarding expo on the elevator? I felt like mine may have been a little too sensitive. I'm currently running 15% in high rates and maybe that needs to be bumped up.

Thanks,

Jay

[Doutrnz]

I have the 80mm A-10 Thunderbolt II EDF and I want to add main gear brakes. The rest of my models that do not have thrust reverse use brakes. I measured the wheels, and they are HUGE. 84mm diameter, 27mm thickness, with a 4.5mm axle (I really couldn't get under there with the calipers to get an exact measurement on the axle). I can't find a manufacturer that makes a wheel that size with that size axle. Has anyone been successful in upgrading the wheels on this specific model to brake wheels? I keep asking around and I get the same answer: "Check what JP Hobby has." or such and such to see what they have. This doesn't answer my question. No one has been able to give me a direct answer so, here is my last hope.

[xviper]

I have the 80mm A-10 Thunderbolt II EDF and I want to add main gear brakes. The rest of my models that do not have thrust reverse use brakes. I measured the wheels, and they are HUGE. 84mm diameter, 27mm thickness, with a 4.5mm axle (I really couldn't get under there with the calipers to get an exact measurement on the axle). I can't find a manufacturer that makes a wheel that size with that size axle. Has anyone been successful in upgrading the wheels on this specific model to brake wheels? I keep asking around and I get the same answer: "Check what JP Hobby has." or such and such to see what they have. This doesn't answer my question. No one has been able to give me a direct answer so, here is my last hope.

The A-10 does have pretty big main wheels, so I'm not able to answer your question either. However, failing the wheel brake option, why don't you put reverse thrust on your A-10?

One way is to get a couple of these:
https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?...roduct_id=8696
Plus a RX with an empty channel for the reverse signal. Just make sure you set your travel limits correctly on the reverse channel. I did this on my AL-37 but had the travel limits set wrong and the ESC cut out on me. This was an easy correction and has not happened again since.

Another way is the get a couple of these:
https://www.horizonhobby.com/product...PMXAE1100.html
However, this way is a little more complicated in that you'll need 2 Spektrum smart RXs. One can be a 6-ch smart RX to operate the plane on one ESC, while the other can be a simple 4-ch smart RX to operate the other ESC. I've done this on my PJ50 Bizjet and it works extremely well.

PS. Both brands of reversing ESCs can be ordered from any hobby shop that does business with Horizon Hobby.

[Doutrnz]

xviper I have an 8-channel smart Spektrum Rx in it. AR8360T. I wouldn't know where to start getting thrust reverse setup on two ESCs with that Rx. I already have major issues with the 90mm F-16 and the Freewing control board not working smoothly with the same Rx and that same AVIAN ESC. The second option you mentioned seems even more expensive, more weight, and more tweaking to get two Rx's to work together. I appreciate the input and I will keep this in mind further down the line if I ever decide I want to add thrust reverse. Right now, I think brakes is the simplest solution. Heck, she hasn't even had a maiden yet, never touched tarmac yet.

[xviper]

xviper I have an 8-channel smart Spektrum Rx in it. AR8360T. I wouldn't know where to start getting thrust reverse setup on two ESCs with that Rx. I already have major issues with the 90mm F-16 and the Freewing control board not working smoothly with the same Rx and that same AVIAN ESC. The second option you mentioned seems even more expensive, more weight, and more tweaking to get two Rx's to work together. I appreciate the input and I will keep this in mind further down the line if I ever decide I want to add thrust reverse. Right now, I think brakes is the simplest solution. Heck, she hasn't even had a maiden yet, never touched tarmac yet.

With that RX, so long as you have an empty channel, you can do reverse using the Predator ESCs.
This plane weighs over 12 lbs loaded, so additional weight from an extra RX is nothing. You have to get one smart ESC working in reverse with your main AR8360T. Once you've done that, you hook up the other Avian smart ESC to an AR400 and bind it with the other RX not powered. Do the reverse on it and then hook the main RX back up and both RXs remain bound and both will continue to work the reverse. Yes, I know it's hard to wrap you head around binding 2 RXs and working the reverse through a "ghost" channel 7 on the 4-ch RX but it does work.
The Freewing control board doesn't come into play as far as dealing with the ESC are concerned, so I'm not sure why your RX is not talking to the ESC properly. It should be a direct connection from the ESC to the RX using the throttle lead. Anyway, something to consider for later if the brake thing doesn't pan out.
Also, since you haven't flown the A-10, depending on the surface you land on, it may not need brakes or reverse to get stopped in time. I sometimes take off from GeoTex but land on the grass at the side.

[Doutrnz]

I'm confused. You start with saying to use the two predator ESCs then you start talking about getting the smart ESC setup for reverse and connect the other smart ESC to the AR400. You also mention to use 2 Rxs. It sounds like you are speaking about both options at the same time. 😕 The fly field I go to only has tarmac/an asphalt runway. Planes run off the ends all the time! Its funny and scary at the same time. I live in the desert so we don't have any grass where we fly. Just desert all around and a runway. LOL

[xviper]

I'm confused. You start with saying to use the two predator ESCs then you start talking about getting the smart ESC setup for reverse and connect the other smart ESC to the AR400. You also mention to use 2 Rxs. It sounds like you are speaking about both options at the same time. 😕 The fly field I go to only has tarmac/an asphalt runway. Planes run off the ends all the time! Its funny and scary at the same time. I live in the desert so we don't have any grass where we fly. Just desert all around and a runway. LOL

Let me try to clarify. I'm talking 2 different scenarios for achieving reverse thrust on an A-10.

1. If you go with the Avian reversing ESCs, you must also go with 2 Spektrum smart RXs because until Avian makes a twin integrated reversing ESCs in 100A per side*, 2 separate Avian reversing ESCs cannot be controlled by one receiver. The reverse signal is a feedback signal that goes through channel 7. It can't handle two such signals. Therefore, your main RX (8-ch one) can control the plane and one of the ESCs. The second ESC must be controlled by a second smart RX and on that RX, only the throttle signal from the second ESC is hooked up to the AR400, which is a smart RX and has 6 other "ghost" channels. You run that reverse signal via the ghost channel 7, which is a feedback through the throttle lead. Hence, the second RX only operates the throttle and reverse of the second Avian ESC.

2. If you go with the Predator ESCs, you can use your 8-ch RX alone as the two reverse signal wires of the Predator can get Y'd together and go into an unused channel (eg, ch. 7 or 8 - you choose and assign a switch to that channel). That channel's travel limits MUST be set correctly for the reverse to work.

The major difference between the two scenarios is that the Avian reversing ESC does NOT use a signal wire for reverse. It uses a feedback signal through the throttle lead, which can only handle 1 feedback signal (2 Avian reversing ESCs have 2 feedback signals). The Predator reversing ESCs DO have distinct reverse leads coming out of the ESCs and thus, can be Y'd together and go into a single free RX port.

*Avian currently have a twin integrated reversing ESC used in their small Eflite A-10 but those are only around 50A per side. This A10 needs 100A per side and they don't make one yet.

[Doutrnz]

Let me try to clarify. I'm talking 2 different scenarios for achieving reverse thrust on an A-10.

1. If you go with the Avian reversing ESCs, you must also go with 2 Spektrum smart RXs because until Avian makes a twin integrated reversing ESCs in 100A per side*, 2 separate Avian reversing ESCs cannot be controlled by one receiver. The reverse signal is a feedback signal that goes through channel 7. It can't handle two such signals. Therefore, your main RX (8-ch one) can control the plane and one of the ESCs. The second ESC must be controlled by a second smart RX and on that RX, only the throttle signal from the second ESC is hooked up to the AR400, which is a smart RX and has 6 other "ghost" channels. You run that reverse signal via the ghost channel 7, which is a feedback through the throttle lead. Hence, the second RX only operates the throttle and reverse of the second Avian ESC.

2. If you go with the Predator ESCs, you can use your 8-ch RX alone as the two reverse signal wires of the Predator can get Y'd together and go into an unused channel (eg, ch. 7 or 8 - you choose and assign a switch to that channel). That channel's travel limits MUST be set correctly for the reverse to work.

The major difference between the two scenarios is that the Avian reversing ESC does NOT use a signal wire for reverse. It uses a feedback signal through the throttle lead, which can only handle 1 feedback signal (2 Avian reversing ESCs have 2 feedback signals). The Predator reversing ESCs DO have distinct reverse leads coming out of the ESCs and thus, can be Y'd together and go into a single free RX port.

*Avian currently have a twin integrated reversing ESC used in their small Eflite A-10 but those are only around 50A per side. This A10 needs 100A per side and they don't make one yet.

That definitely clarifies it for me. Thank You! Out of the two scenarios, I would do the 2nd one. What would be everything I would need for option 2, aside from purchasing the two ESCs?
I'll have to youtube to see if there is a tutorial to setup the Rx for this. I'm not sure what the travel limits would be.

[xviper]

That definitely clarifies it for me. Thank You! Out of the two scenarios, I would do the 2nd one. What would be everything I would need for option 2, aside from purchasing the two ESCs?
I'll have to youtube to see if there is a tutorial to setup the Rx for this. I'm not sure what the travel limits would be.

You would need 2 ESCs, one for each fan and an empty channel on your RX. That channel must be assigned to a switch of your choice. The switch only needs to be a 2-way but a 3-way can be used, just don't stop in the middle position. Travel limits are in the manual for the ESCs but essentially, it is exactly the same as the travel limits of what you have for your throttle (view and confirm and set from your TX monitor). The information in the manual can and has been misinterpreted in the past and I believe they have made some clarifications to avoid any mishaps.
If you think you might hit the switch in mid-flight, DO NOT use thrust reverse. Bad things can happen.

[Doutrnz]

You would need 2 ESCs, one for each fan and an empty channel on your RX. That channel must be assigned to a switch of your choice. The switch only needs to be a 2-way but a 3-way can be used, just don't stop in the middle position. Travel limits are in the manual for the ESCs but essentially, it is exactly the same as the travel limits of what you have for your throttle (view and confirm and set from your TX monitor). The information in the manual can and has been misinterpreted in the past and I believe they have made some clarifications to avoid any mishaps.
If you think you might hit the switch in mid-flight, DO NOT use thrust reverse. Bad things can happen.

So, I have been researching this Predator ESC with brake function. It looks like that is for prop planes to stop the prop from spinning at 0% throttle position. Am I missing something here to get this to do a full reverse throttle for EDFs? Mentioning travel limits, is this where they are relevant?

I see you have used these before. Could I bother you in letting me give you my contact info? Maybe you could send me a video on how you set it up or point me to a video so I can understand the limits?