Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[F106DeltaDart]

Very nice. So it looks like you shifted the whole retract inward towards the fuselage. Which oleo did you end up going with again?

I ended up going with these: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/alloy-ol...___store=en_us. And yes, I had to shift the retract inboard, which was a bit of a pain. Those stock gear mounts are really glued in well!

[RCjetdude]

I ended up going with these: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/alloy-ol...___store=en_us. And yes, I had to shift the retract inboard, which was a bit of a pain. Those stock gear mounts are really glued in well!

How did you go about moving the mount?

[bcrc]

NOSE GEAR PIN THAT BREAKS - need info:
There has been a lot of discussion on this thread that the nose gear connecting pin breaks. I assume it is Motion's part number FJ31111087. It is a 5mm pin with a long flat to connect the gear and the tiller arms. It has a "T" top so it won't fall out.
I have some questions:
- Have they all been the same ever since the first delivery of the Freewing A-10s, or was there a change along the line that fixed it? I think that somewhere on this thread someone alluded to that they fixed it. If they did fix it, how do I know if I have a good one or not?
- Does someone have a replacement part they found somewhere that doesn't need the addition of a "clip" pin at the top? A flat spot isn't necessary, as it is easy to file/grind a flat spot.
- Why can't one use one of the main landing gear axles and then put our own flat spot on it? (If it is the same diameter - 5mm, and it is long enough and it is strong enough without fracturing)
Thank you.

[Flash Jorden]

NOSE GEAR PIN THAT BREAKS - need info:
There has been a lot of discussion on this thread that the nose gear connecting pin breaks. I assume it is Motion's part number FJ31111087. It is a 5mm pin with a long flat to connect the gear and the tiller arms. It has a "T" top so it won't fall out.
I have some questions:
- Have they all been the same ever since the first delivery of the Freewing A-10s, or was there a change along the line that fixed it? I think that somewhere on this thread someone alluded to that they fixed it. If they did fix it, how do I know if I have a good one or not?
- Does someone have a replacement part they found somewhere that doesn't need the addition of a "clip" pin at the top? A flat spot isn't necessary, as it is easy to file/grind a flat spot.
- Why can't one use one of the main landing gear axles and then put our own flat spot on it? (If it is the same diameter - 5mm, and it is long enough and it is strong enough without fracturing)
Thank you.

Three of us got our A-10s in the 1st batch, and all 3 of us have broken the pin. We fly off of a grass field so that may be a factor in the increased drag contributing to helping them break.
On the previous page of this thread, post #6226 shows that Hobby King has replacement pins.

[Crashmaster]

For those with bouncing issues I am copying my findings from my post on RCG. I have solved the issue at least for me. Today I have 5 flights no bounce on any landing included my bad landing on flight #5 that would have in the past bounced and broke the nose gear yet again.

I initially was going to try softer spring but the ones I found were too soft and would not work. So I starting looking at another solution. I put the stock springs back in and sat the plane on my patio table and pushed down on it to see when the wheels would deflect, they only really will deflect if I lowered the nose and or if some of my push down force is going forward. I then raised the nose to what I would call a landing position and pushed down again, no flex at all, gear stays locked as the nose is up and the angle of the strut is low. (see photos) So the only way to get them to flex if for wheel drag back on landing, so that may be why those on grass have less bouncing tendency as more wheel drag to deflect the wheel back, once they go back a little suddenly the "knee" will give and ride on the spring. So that lead me to think that the trailing angle is not enough. So I thought about a shim but the saw that thick spot of aluminum on the strut and decided to drill and tap a M3 thread. To do it you have to take the spring off and I held the wing assembly under my drill press and angled it so I was drilling perpendicular to the surface and then drilled my tap hole . Then threaded it with a hand tap. Then I grabbed a M3 screw and threaded it in then once I felt it bottom out, I cranked two extra full turns to deflect the leg back a little more. Now when I set the model in a nose up landing position and push done on the plane the 'knee" bends and it rides on the springs. I like this as I can adjust the flex and how soon the "knee" bends.

I flew this today and the final adjustment was 1.5 turns instead of 2 turns. I have also posted photos showing my final angle on the leg and an offset value. Now the plane lands like a dream and like all my other planes. The part that makes me mad is this small linkage angle difference made a huge difference in how it lands and absorbs the energy. The nose has been damaged from multiple nose gear failures due to bouncing. The nose gear pin has broken twice and the gear mount as well. I have plastic welded it together several times and the light has torn off and the aft gear door broken off from nosing in when the bouncing happens. On one hand I am glad I have found the solution but annoyed at the amount of damage to the airframe to find the solution. Hopefully others can use this info to keep from damaging their plane.

Don

Don,

Great solution! I'm glad it's working for you. I'm still not 100% understanding why it's working, but it's working. Perhaps your solution works - in part - because the trailing links are not being allowed to "snap" completely back to their resting position due to the shim screw preventing it. Thus, less energy is available for pushing the plane back into the air after they completely flex on a bad landing.

In any case, the wheel will stick out of the nacelle a bit more when the gear is retracted, but it shouldn't be too noticeable. I am guessing that some Loctite on that shim screw would give some peace of mind. I don't have a drill press, so if I try this I'll need to drill using a hand power drill.

[F106DeltaDart]

How did you go about moving the mount?

I'll take some photos when I do the other side this afternoon that will show it better, but I removed the rear part of the pod and the prayed loose the plastic retract tray from the wing. With some trimming and foam cutting, I was able to shift it inboard a bit more.

[Xtraflyr]

Yeah my landing gear pin is tough on the second batch! Take off roll and I hit a ditch on the runway? It did its bucking bronco dance,hit the nose gear,pin didn't break,but the nose of the fuse busted apart. Lucky enough it's big pieces to glue together. Not sure if a different nose or main gear would've helped? My first flight today I hit that spot but had enough momentum to get into the air and the landing was beautiful. My fault I should've said I got away with the takeoff last time and packed it up. I just love flying this A10, and took a stupid chance. Oh well let's glue it back together and try again! Not sure why I can't upload video from my I phone.

[Rosytime]

I broke the nose off of mine also. If you look, it doesn't seem to have a lot structure in it and will break off easily if you hit it hard enough. I will say that mine broke when the gun barrel dug into the ground when I hit the front wheel first while trying to land in gusty wind conditions. And this was my third flight. Just used Foam Tac and it as good as it going to be after ripping off. A wrinkle here or there, but the decals I have seem to disguise them. I almost wish that the A-10 had a removable nose section like on the Avanti, but I don't think there is enough surface to do it. I'm perplexed as how people are breaking the nose gear servo pin. I also fly off a grass field for the most part and the only way I see this possible is that the nose gear is hitting first hard enough to bend the pin where it comes out of the retract mechanism. I will say that it's possible that a sub par metal alloy was used in the pins that some of you have in the retract, but mine was in the first batch also. When I put mine in the ground that one time, it definitely hit hard enough to break any substandard pin. It didn't even bend. I now have over 50 flights on mine and the only time it bounces is when I manage to hit the nose gear first. If you don't flare just before landing and getting that nose up, you will bounce it and put undue pressure on the nose gear. I'm the only one in the club that has one and the other field I fly at has none that I know of so I'm the guinea pig. I do believe that many of us who are flying this great EDF are not used to the weight of it and tend to let it float and get behind it on landing. I find that even with a good headwind you still have to be on the throttle when landing. There is no way this jet will float in for a landing like many of the other foamies. By the way, my Avanti also has use throttle when landing although it's much lighter and slows even more than the A-10.

[The Don]

Don,

Great solution! I'm glad it's working for you. I'm still not 100% understanding why it's working, but it's working. Perhaps your solution works - in part - because the trailing links are not being allowed to "snap" completely back to their resting position due to the shim screw preventing it. Thus, less energy is available for pushing the plane back into the air after they completely flex on a bad landing.

In any case, the wheel will stick out of the nacelle a bit more when the gear is retracted, but it shouldn't be too noticeable. I am guessing that some Loctite on that shim screw would give some peace of mind. I don't have a drill press, so if I try this I'll need to drill using a hand power drill.

Here is a photo of how it looks retracted. I don't even notice the difference. I think this works because the leg is now angled enough back that the springs actually are working early in the landing. Without my modification, I think the mains do not flex until later in the landing when there is enough drag on the wheel to bend them back. Now it flexes with vertical weight. When I land now the plane squats but does not bounce. I suggest putting your plane one the ground then pushing down near the cg and see what the gear does ,then raise the nose up to landing position and push again. On mine when the nose was up the legs acted rigid, no flex at all. Now with nose up if I push down they start to deflect. I think the bouncing issue is really a linkage geometry angle issue.

Don

[TiredIronGRB]

Here is a photo of how it looks retracted. I don't even notice the difference. I think this works because the leg is now angled enough back that the springs actually are working early in the landing. Without my modification, I think the mains do not flex until later in the landing when there is enough drag on the wheel to bend them back. Now it flexes with vertical weight. When I land now the plane squats but does not bounce. I suggest putting your plane one the ground then pushing down near the cg and see what the gear does ,then raise the nose up to landing position and push again. On mine when the nose was up the legs acted rigid, no flex at all. Now with nose up if I push down they start to deflect. I think the bouncing issue is really a linkage geometry angle issue.

Don

Looks good Don and would probably protect the undercarriage more if the gear failed to deploy.

[The Don]

I broke the nose off of mine also. If you look, it doesn't seem to have a lot structure in it and will break off easily if you hit it hard enough. I will say that mine broke when the gun barrel dug into the ground when I hit the front wheel first while trying to land in gusty wind conditions. And this was my third flight. Just used Foam Tac and it as good as it going to be after ripping off. A wrinkle here or there, but the decals I have seem to disguise them. I almost wish that the A-10 had a removable nose section like on the Avanti, but I don't think there is enough surface to do it. I'm perplexed as how people are breaking the nose gear servo pin. I also fly off a grass field for the most part and the only way I see this possible is that the nose gear is hitting first hard enough to bend the pin where it comes out of the retract mechanism. I will say that it's possible that a sub par metal alloy was used in the pins that some of you have in the retract, but mine was in the first batch also. When I put mine in the ground that one time, it definitely hit hard enough to break any substandard pin. It didn't even bend. I now have over 50 flights on mine and the only time it bounces is when I manage to hit the nose gear first. If you don't flare just before landing and getting that nose up, you will bounce it and put undue pressure on the nose gear. I'm the only one in the club that has one and the other field I fly at has none that I know of so I'm the guinea pig. I do believe that many of us who are flying this great EDF are not used to the weight of it and tend to let it float and get behind it on landing. I find that even with a good headwind you still have to be on the throttle when landing. There is no way this jet will float in for a landing like many of the other foamies. By the way, my Avanti also has use throttle when landing although it's much lighter and slows even more than the A-10.

I wish the first 8-10 inches was replaceable them mine would look brand new!. My nose gear damage has come from the bouncing, not the initial bounce but the subsequent bounces in which you have no control of what is happening. On my bounces the last bounce was always nose down and that damaged the front gear at the last second. My original pin snapped, had a pin made where I work from a 5mm HSS drill bit shank and that worked for a few flights until a bad bounce broke that. I was about to gut the plane and sell it for parts then the 5mm pins from Hobbyking I ordered showed up, and I was able to fix it. Then decided to mess with the gear linkages and this last weekend was the keep it or gut for parts flying day and I had all 5 flights land OK. The last one was almost 90 degree crosswind so I am feeling good that the issue has been solved for me. I think adding in that trailing link nose retract will be an added bonus.

Don

[Xtraflyr]

I broke the nose off of mine also. If you look, it doesn't seem to have a lot structure in it and will break off easily if you hit it hard enough. I will say that mine broke when the gun barrel dug into the ground when I hit the front wheel first while trying to land in gusty wind conditions. And this was my third flight. Just used Foam Tac and it as good as it going to be after ripping off. A wrinkle here or there, but the decals I have seem to disguise them. I almost wish that the A-10 had a removable nose section like on the Avanti, but I don't think there is enough surface to do it. I'm perplexed as how people are breaking the nose gear servo pin. I also fly off a grass field for the most part and the only way I see this possible is that the nose gear is hitting first hard enough to bend the pin where it comes out of the retract mechanism. I will say that it's possible that a sub par metal alloy was used in the pins that some of you have in the retract, but mine was in the first batch also. When I put mine in the ground that one time, it definitely hit hard enough to break any substandard pin. It didn't even bend. I now have over 50 flights on mine and the only time it bounces is when I manage to hit the nose gear first. If you don't flare just before landing and getting that nose up, you will bounce it and put undue pressure on the nose gear. I'm the only one in the club that has one and the other field I fly at has none that I know of so I'm the guinea pig. I do believe that many of us who are flying this great EDF are not used to the weight of it and tend to let it float and get behind it on landing. I find that even with a good headwind you still have to be on the throttle when landing. There is no way this jet will float in for a landing like many of the other foamies. By the way, my Avanti also has use throttle when landing although it's much lighter and slows even more than the A-10.

My damage was also from after the bounce it took.
Is there an adjustment to tighten up the front retract? Mine has a ton of play in it.

[F106DeltaDart]

How did you go about moving the mount?

Here are a few photos of the process for installing the oleo and moving the mounts. Also a few shots of the completed bird. I included some captions with steps, but unfortunately the uploader put them all in a mixed up order.

[The Don]

My damage was also from after the bounce it took.
Is there an adjustment to tighten up the front retract? Mine has a ton of play in it.

What I did was use a piece of rubber band strip (about 3/8" long x 1/4" wide x 1mm thick ). With the retract up, I glued a short piece to the exposed part of the trunion, so when the retract rotates to the down position the rubber filled the gab between the back of the trunion and the retract taking up the slop.

[TiredIronGRB]

Here are a few photos of the process for installing the oleo and moving the mounts. Also a few shots of the completed bird. I included some captions with steps, but unfortunately the uploader put them all in a mixed up order.

Looks like the AOA is about 3mm lower now.

[RCjetdude]

Here are a few photos of the process for installing the oleo and moving the mounts. Also a few shots of the completed bird. I included some captions with steps, but unfortunately the uploader put them all in a mixed up order.

Amazing! Do you feel the gear mounting block is as solid as it was originally?

[F106DeltaDart]

Amazing! Do you feel the gear mounting block is as solid as it was originally?

Seems pretty solid testing it on the bench and the ground. I am going to test it with some touch-n-gos next time I'm at the field before I start work on gear doors. Then, maybe I can finally move on to rivets and paintwork. Unfortunately, it may be a while before we get some clear weather for a test flight.

Looks like the AOA is about 3mm lower now.

I think that's just poor perspective from the photo, seemed pretty level to me.

[Xtraflyr]

The glue that comes with the A10. Is it beacon Foam Tac or something else,like contact adhesive?

[Rosytime]

It's not the same as FoamTac but will work. It dries a little harder which is why I use Foam Tac. It stays flexible but really bonds well As far as the looseness of the gear, way back in the beginning of this thread the guys from Motion said that the looseness was by design to make the gear more forgiving and able to soak up the bumps easier. The Avanti also has slop in it's gear. They felt that too stiff of a gear set up would lead to gear being tore up and breaking. I can only say in my experience that it works. I've run it off our runway into the high grass that full of bumps and holes and it's still in great shape. The only problem I've had is the grub screws that are on the nose gear have come loose and allow the nose wheel to go back and forth, especially bad on takeoff. Pulled them out and used locktite on them and no more problem. They had some on them but only towards the outside and when the screw was all the way tightened it went beyond the locktite. Flare this jet on landing and you shouldn't have any gear problems.

[brrzee]

Has anyone ordered a replacement wing set. Overshot my field on landing hit some crop and busted up one of the wings.